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 Post subject: Taper Question
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:45 am 
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Hi guys, I'm new to the forum but I've been reading the forums for the past few years I feel like I already know some of you. I've been on sub for roughly 4 yrs. Doc started me off at 24 mgs and I'm only down to 16 now. I was going to try somewhat of a variation of the taper method from Robert123 (his was to reduce dosage by 25% every four days) the only difference is that I'll be trying reducing every week until it gets really small and then I'll taper slower hopefully all the way down to zero (or as close as I can get w/cutting or the liquid method)

My question to you is that I'm about to fill my last and final script, as insurance is out and I'm finally really ready to do this anyway. Should I get a script for the 8 mg strips or the 4's? This is a big decision because just in case I fail or can't do the taper for whatever reason and need to start over, having the 8's will allow me much more flexibility for a more time and possibly even a slower taper. On the other side of the token, less to work with means you'll have to adjust.

p.s. I'm both scared and excited to do this and need the slowest way possible.

Thanks in advance for your advice!

-Kelly


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 Post subject: Re: Taper Question
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:18 pm 
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Hello Kelly and welcome to the forum! I'm Karen and it's very nice to have you with us!

I don't know who Robert123 is or what his taper method was, but if it's as you say reducing by 25% every 4 days, I guess that could work for many people. The most important advice and suggestion I could ever give you is to reduce and taper by the way that BEST works for YOU alone. Find out what works best for YOU Kelly and go at it with a positive attitude, and a firm commitment to finish as you want to do it!

In my own personal opinion I would just get as many of the 8mg film strips as you can get. Much better to have lots left over than to be 1 strip short! There are several very easy ways to figure and cut the strips, and one member here by the name of RXFCG has come up with a template and cutting guide that really makes it easy, and several have used it. If you google RX Film Cutting Guide you will see what i mean.

The best way again my opinion, is to reduce with a slow, steady, and controlled taper. Try reducing by small doses at first, and for a week as you plan, and if that doesn't work then stretch out the time between reductions. I was on 24mg in the beginning and on subs for about 3 years total. I had reduced down to 2mg wheni came here and joined looking for a way to taper lower and get off. I had many suggestions, and i used some of those, and then came up with my own way in the end. I got off finally and now have just over 2 weeks sub-free! You can read my thread if you have time in this same section. It has lots of suggestions and advice that is sure to help you along the way!

Good luck to you Kelly and I know you CAN do this! Remain positive at all times, and and you really have to WANT this to have the best chance at success. You will get other replies soon I'm sure. Take care and I'm sure we will chat again soon!

Karen xoxo


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 Post subject: Re: Taper Question
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:34 pm 
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Hi Kelly,

Welcome to the forum!!

Do you have any suboxone saved up? Do you have a stash?

Seeing as you're at 16mg right now, you'll probably need a fair bit of suboxone to complete a taper. I'm familiar with Roberts methods, but cutting your dose by 25% every 4 days (or even every week) is not always feasible. Getting more of the 8mg films is probably a good idea, the only problem with that is when the end of your taper nears, those 8mg films are a little difficult to cut into very small doses, but not impossible.

If you have a fair stash of 8's saved up, I'd be inclined to tell you to get the 4's or even the 2's, depends on how much you have saved.

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 Post subject: Re: Taper Question
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:27 pm 
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Hi Karen and Romeo, thanks so much for your replies. I bought the taper schedule, chart, etc. absolutely wonderful materials! In fact, I showed them to my sub dr. and he's thinking about using this idea when tapering patients. :D

anyway, I decided not only to start at a different dosage, but to do a slower taper, based on Karen's advice, to do it slower and what worked for me. Romeo, I was given 90 strips of 8 at the end of September, so I have 80 some..left. I need to count them and plug them into the excel taper chart. I've started my taper at 8mg and this is day 4, it's a little difficult but not nearly as bad as I worked my self up to thinking it would be. I was originally going to start off at 16 but wanted to see if 8 was do-able, so Im kinda proud of myself (stupid this early I know).

Am I to understand that this taper schedule is reducing by 6% per week? Im just trying to find a method. I've also got a kit together based on other people's experiences, local bee pollen, good vitamins, started juicing (I'm SOOO tired its ridiculous). Anyway, I'm also journaling because I notice that certain times of the day are much harder, like in the AM, for some strange reason taking the sub got me motivated and without it right away in the morning I'm dragging hard. I've started taking it around 11 now, so it's not the first thing on my mind in the morning.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions guys, it means so much and I don't feel as alone in this mess. Any other advice is welcome!

-Kelly


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 Post subject: Re: Taper Question
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:26 pm 
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You've been at 8mg for four days now....damn right you should be proud of yourself!!! Good job, Kelly!!

I haven't looked at the specific taper you're doing, so I don't know if it's a 6% taper or not, but I would think 80 of the 8mg strips would be plenty to do that taper.

I just have to say how impressive it is that you realized how you were relying on Suboxone to "get you up" in the morning and you decided to put off your dose until 11am.....talk about the willingness to change oneself and one's habits, good job, again!!

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 Post subject: Re: Taper Question
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:40 pm 
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Hi Kelly!

You should feel very proud of yourself girl! You also began at 24mg as I did originally and got yourself down to 8mg now! That's a huge accomplishment for anyone! :D

Those materials you received are wonderful and they can work for you. Just figure out how YOU want to make dose reductions, and the duration YOU want to make between them and go from there. I reduced rather quickly from 24mg down to 2mg and then slowed things down a bit to the end.

I guess the best suggestion I could give you is to reduce only when your body let's you know it's ready to reduce. Get good and stable on each dose for a few days to a week or longer and then reduce by the amount you choose. Read the different threads and see how others have done it. Many have been very successful tapering their dose as I was and now doing great! You can too Kelly!

Stay positive and work towards your goal with a firm commitment. Just don't get in a big hurry as you have been on the sub for about 4 years so what's a little more time to get that dose down low and get off. You are really doing great Kelly and again congratulations on getting down to the 8mg dose! Well done! :D

Hugs,
Karen xoxo


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 Post subject: Re: Taper Question
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:13 pm 
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Hi guys! just wanted to touch base. Surprisingly I'm already having some symptoms coming down from 16 to 8 but they are definitely manageable. The biggest thing is that I am incredibly lethargic, my arms feel like 50 lbs each and typing and even talking is crazy taxing, funny I know and hey if that's my biggest issue, I'll take it any day but I sure hope it goes away, I have shit to do!

Doc gave me a script for Neurontin for sub withdrawl later on but I'm pretty weary of taking yet another toxin that I'll have to wean off of. The reviews on it are both good and bad, I was just wondering if you have heard anything about it for when I'm around 1 mg. I've decided a step down somewhere around 6% every week. Despite my body healing itself and complaining I'm having some mild stomach cramping and constantly feel like I need to sneeze but never do. I just keep trying to remember that you can't do so much damage to your body for so long and not expect to pay for it one way or another. The fun hasn't even started.

Juicing is going well and can't say much for the bee pollen yet. Oh yea, another thing (the main reason I came to post..duh) I'm feeling things really intensely, even small things like certain scenes in movies I'll end up bawling, etc. also out of no where I'm starting to think about why I started using in the first place, such as painful experiences in the past that have led me to craving opiates, etc. Did either of you have this happen? also my sex drive is through the roof. I read somewhere that my body is craving the endorphin release it used to get from opiates, things like sex, music you love and exercise release these and also something about serotonin rebound. Anyway, thanks guys, and am I posting in the right place? :)


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 Post subject: Re: Taper Question
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:42 pm 
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Hey Kelly!

Of course your posting in the right place! We can find you right here on your own thread. Use it as your journal and post whenever you feel the need to rant, ask questions, or just update your journey!

I know EXACTLY what you mean by the crying during movies, increased sexual desires, appetite, music being more vivid, etc. The drugs have suppressed your thoughts, and senses for a long time and now things are becoming much more clear to you. And yes, those natural endorphins are working trying to get back to a more normal state.

Your still on the subs of course, but as the dose gets lower and lower things become even more clear to you! Your getting a glimpse of what is yet to come your way! It's amazing isn't it? :D

Hopefully you won't even need that Neurontin. If you can get your dose down low enough it usually gives most of us the best chance to get off the subs with the least amount of symptoms. It did for me that's for sure!

As you reduce each dose it can take a day or two for your body to adjust to the new dose reduction. That's fairly common for lots of us and it also was me too. I would feel ok the first day after reducing, then the 2nd and maybe the 3rd day I would have a few small symptoms. Then everything would get stable for the next few days and I would be ready to reduce again. Just take your time and make sure your ready to reduce. When we try and rush things is usually when the issues can begin.

Doing great Kelly! Keep up the good work and post often your progress. It really helps and is nice to be able to look back and see how far you have come, and what has happened along the way. Talk to you later and have a great day!

Karen xoxo


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 Post subject: Re: Taper Question
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:46 pm 
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Karen...

Thanks for posting back. I just read your original taper thread and I didn't read where you jumped at. I'm posting again today for a few reasons, first I noticed that when you posted for the first time, looking for support on tapering from 2 mg, that it took a while for anyone to get back with you, and I noticed that you always post back to people in need without them waiting weeks, and I think it's amazing that you give back like that. I also was surprised that you had some negative posters in your thread, but you took it like a grain of salt and didn't let it get you down, you even thanked them for their input and maintained a positive attitude no matter what! I just have to say that you're a real inspiration and you seem like a very sincere person and I want to congratulate you on being off sub for...what is it now 4/5 weeks?

One of the posters (the negative one on your thread) said something about how people tapering off will post a diary of progress and then just disappear.. Like I said earlier, I've been reading around this website for a couple of years and he's sorta right, I would follow people's taper and get REALLY hopeful, then people would just disappear, no posts anywhere I even googled to try different sites (bluelight I think is a good one) but anyway, I was really inspired by reading that you know of people who got off, and ultimately that you did too. He also mentioned "why would you want to be off of sub". There are SO many reasons but one of the many is that what if I ever need a surgery or something? that is a BIG one for me. (I'm healthy by the way)

Your posts also reminded me to get some smaller strips because the .063 or whatever that little piece is, is a pain to cut :D What mg did you finally jump off at? Did you dissolve the last in water? Do you mind me asking what are you doing to stay clean? Do attend NA/AA? or is your will to be clean enough? Everyone says that if you don't replace the bad habit with new positive ones that you'll end up in the same boat. I think this might be true for me, because after all, I started using for a reason. Obviously taking pills made me not care about things as much so I guess I was self-medicating. I also noticed your DOC was same as mine (narcotics were like pez candy to me. Gosh I was such an idiot writing my own scripts, found a site to buy them online, etc. ) so glad those days are OvEr! I have no desire for pills and haven't. I think (hope) I'll be fine.

Anyway, thanks so much for giving back Karen. I'm SO proud of you for getting off, as I'm sure you are too. :D

-Kel


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 Post subject: Re: Taper Question
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:19 pm 
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Kelly said, "Juicing is going well and can't say much for the bee pollen yet. Oh yea, another thing (the main reason I came to post..duh) I'm feeling things really intensely, even small things like certain scenes in movies I'll end up bawling, etc. also out of no where I'm starting to think about why I started using in the first place, such as painful experiences in the past that have led me to craving opiates, etc. Did either of you have this happen? also my sex drive is through the roof. I read somewhere that my body is craving the endorphin release it used to get from opiates, things like sex, music you love and exercise release these and also something about serotonin rebound. Anyway, thanks guys, and am I posting in the right place?"

I'm glad the juicing is going well and that's a check on the movies, remembering painful experiences and having a high sex drive.

As for the Neurontin, I understand it does help many and if you're only going to be on it a short time, a few weeks maybe, then I'd guess you would be fine.

Have you looked into Clonidine yet? It's a blood pressure med that's prescribed off label for opiate wd, I used it during my detox and it really did help.

Lastly, I'm not surprised you felt the jump from 16mg to 8mg. Some people don't feel it, but many do. Just keep moving forward, you'll eventually get there! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Taper Question
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:46 pm 
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Kelly,

Gosh, you have me blushing, but thank you so much for all the kind words. I can't believe you read my entire thread! But I'm very happy you did and I hope you were able to get some good pointers from it and sounds like you have. I had/have so much support from everyone, and so many different suggestions and advice that helped me get where I am now! The negative stuff is just a small part of it and I would much rather put my energy into all the positive things happening in my thread, and in my life. Not too much ever bothers me Kelly. The forum gave me so much hope that I thought the least I could do was stick around and pay it forward to those I think I can help with the little bit of knowledge and experience I have gathered along the way. I truly appreciate everything you had to say Kelly. That was so sweet of you! :D

I got my dose down to .50mg and was having some "tummy" issues. At first I thought they might be withdrawal symptoms, and so did a few others. But they became more bothersome and severe, and I knew something was just not right. After talking with my doctor I went into the ER and found my appendix was about to burst! Had to have emergency surgery and have it removed.

I had stopped the subs for that one day and had only a very few 5mg Vicodin pills after the surgery. I made the decision to not go back on the subs after that, the following day. I was planning on tapering down to .25mg, and then perhaps .125mg and jumping when the surgery was required. Not the ideal way to get off them, but it all worked out in the end. Yes it's been going on 5 weeks now since the subs and opiates and life is wonderful.

I do go to NA now Kelly. I enjoy the fellowship, and have made many good friends there that are all clean and have been much longer than I have. We all help keep each other grounded while doing many different things together. I also have a great sponsor who I can call anytime night or day should I just need to talk.

Thank you again so much Kelly for sending such a beautiful post to me! And it was beautiful! You keep doing what your doing. You have a great attitude and I believe that makes a huge difference. You are going to be just fine. If I can be of any further help just let me know. Take care and again thank you! :D

Hugs,
Karen xoxo


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