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 Post subject: My Taper (my journal)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:53 am 
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As I struggle to get below 5mg in my taper, I get very disappointed when I am unsuccessful. But I just found a post on another forum that I wrote over a month ago where I was struggling to get below 8mg, and reading what I had written then made me feel very proud of what I have accomplished thus far. It's hard to remember where we came from, when we are so focused on where we are going.

I'm making this thread so I can visually see my progress during my taper. I also find it helps to write about how I'm feeling when I'm discouraged or having a bad day. Hopefully this thread can also serve as reference for someone else who is thinking about or tapering; as I plan to log the major physical and emotional symptoms that I encounter through this journey.

Reading other members taper threads help me so much, and I would love to contribute to someone else's success, if I can.

I have been at 5mg for two weeks now (two of those days I took 4mg, and yesterday I took 6mg).

Right now I have my week setup to take 5mg tomorrow, then 4mg on wednesday, 5mg thursday, 4mg friday, 5mg saturday, then hopefully I'll be able to stay on 4mg for 1-2 weeks and drop to 3mg.

My recorded voyage starts here. I wish myself luck.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:52 am 
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I think this is a great idea. Writing down my experiences helps me process them and usually I get a new perspective on what's going on and am able to come to a better understanding of myself. I'm glad you were able to see from your older posts that you have struggled through and then stablizied and that you can see the progress you continue to make. That is great.

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 Post subject: 4mg
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:18 pm 
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Today is hopefully the first day of 4mg/daily. I've alternated between 5mg and 4mg for the past couple of days without any major problems. I scheduled today to be the start of my 4mg/daily dose (no more 5mg).

I've also changed the way I take my suboxone. For the past three days I haven't been extending the dissolve period of my suboxone doses. Instead of a 2mg piece taking 50-60min to expire, I've been letting them dissolve in 10-20min. I was sick of "losing" 3 hours of my day, everyday from allowing a tiny piece of sub to dissolve and absorb. With this quicker alternate dosing practice comes a less potent dose. So, in essence I'm dropping my dose an additional (unknowable) amount.

I do seem to feel the effects from it though. I dosed 2mg today at 11:00am, exactly nine hours ago, and I'm experiencing obviously signs of withdrawal right now. Chills, hot/cold flashes, watery eyes, and minor restlessness. The symptoms are minimal but they are there. Coming in waves, the way they do in the beginning. I'm trying my best to postpone my evening dose as long as I possibly can. That way I will be able to get a full night sleep. Sleep is the most important thing to me. It's the thing I miss the most during withdrawal (maybe even more then the drugs themselves).

With that said, I've been feeling very confident lately. I'm focused on my goal. My mood has been, for the most part, decent and determined.

Midnight was my goal for my second dose, but I'm so tired from work this morning I may have to push it back to ~10:00pm. We will see.

I'll keep track of any major symptoms during my drop to 4mg. If all goes well, in 1-2 weeks I'd like to attempt a drop to 3mg/daily.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:17 pm 
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I'm a 28 yr old female. I started with vicotin, then eventually started snorting oxy's and then used heroin about 15-20 times. I have been on suboxone for about 6 months, give or take a couple. I have only ever taken about a quarter of an 8mg suboxone a day.. so that's approximately 2mg of suboxone every 24 hrs. I started tapering about on Sept. 8th. Before that I read up on a lot of people going through the same thing and have found some things that might possibly subside the withdrawals. I went from 2mg of suboxone down to .5mg in less than two weeks with little withdrawals. I am taking NewPhase complete (menopausal medicine). It's an all-natural drug free dietary supplement that's supposed to help with mood/night sweats. It also has green tea extract which increases energy and helps with fatigue. It seems to be helping me greatly with depression and mood swings. This was my downfall the last time I tried to quit.. the depression got so bad I had terrible crazy thoughts and ended up relapsing. Not this time. I am currently at about .125mg of suboxone. I do this by breaking down the 8mg pill until I can't possibly break it down anymore. This is my second day on this amount. My skin is crawly but not unbearable. I take allergy medicine to help my watery eyes and ibuprofen to help with head cloudiness and aches. My legs are a bit stiff but not bad. My appetite is out of control so I've been eating a lot more. The weekday mornings seem to be the hardest since I have a full-time job and have to get up and function, but once I'm up I try to keep my mind busy. I'm going to get Tyrosine on Monday as that seems to have helped a lot of people and I am starting to feel a little worse than I have yet thru this taper. I'm staying strong. Talking about it seems to help. I'll let you know if anything changes drastically. Thanks for hearing me. Any questions don't hesitate to ask.

~Cheryl


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:57 pm 
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Thanks for the post Cheryl. Hope your taper goes as smooth as possible. Stay strong.

Lastnight I ended up caving around 10 o' clock, although I could've easily made it to midnight.

My last 2nd dose was 16hr and 20min ago and I'm feeling crappy. No if's ands or buts. Chills, running nose, watery eyes, crawling skin, cold sweats, and minor aches. It always amazed me how quickly I could feel ill effects from lack of suboxone. I guess I metabolize extremely fast. I think this is actually a good thing. While my withdrawals are sure to be more intense, they shouldn't last as long as a slower metaboliser.

I'm going to postpone my next dose as long as I can or 30min before I have work, whichever comes first.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:13 pm 
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Hey bubble bobble{i love your name it reminds me so much of when i was a kid},

I'm glad your taper is going pretty good! I don't remember if there is a reason why your tapering so quickly? It is usually best to try to stay at 1 dose for a few weeks to let your body adjust, but if it's working I guess thats all that really matters. I tried getting from 6mgs to 8mgs a few times before I actually made it. When I finally tried this last time a few weeks ago I felt nothing at all I think my body was finally ready, the first few times I started feeling like shit and gave up.

Good luck and please keep us posted :)

Cherel- I also wanted to wish you good luck. I am glad your doing well 8) I think keeping busy is definitly the key :!:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:01 am 
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@bubblebobble ~ I have to tell you I've been able to skip a day here and there and the only thing that really seems to bother me is the anxiety attacks I feel like I'm having or panic attacks. I have never had these before so they scare me. When this happens I try and concentrate on my breathing.. I just focus and breath slower. It helps me a little. I had the same symptoms as you did last night.. I knocked myself out with Tylenol PM, I woke up drenched this a.m, my legs are definitely a little more stiff and I am extremely drained.. exhausted.... BUT I have only had about .125mg in TWO DAYS of sub. My heads cloudy but I keep telling myself that I've come this far.. there's no turning back now. I'm taking my life back. I applied to a new Ad Agency and the Creative Director should be receiving my package/resume today. Telling horror stories doesn't help people as much as success stories so I also want to tell you that the tingling feeling in my body is an amazing feeling. I feel alive. I feel passionate about my design work all over again.. yes I have my down days but I tell myself that this is normal, tomorrow's a new day.. and when I have those overwhelming feelings on those days.. they make up for all the bad x10. I can't wait to start the next chapter in my life. Thanks so much for getting back to me you guys, this is the only forum people seem to still be posting on. Best of luck to you all if you need to talk you can find me on Yahoo Messenger as well, my sn is luvlafdesign.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:13 am 
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Have either of you done a colon cleansing? I'm curious.. I've heard its supposed to rid your body of all the toxins that are stored up and speed up the process.. it makes sense but I haven't tried it.. sitting on the can all day is the last thing we all wanna do..haha


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:43 pm 
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Bubble...hang in there buddy.

From my own experience of tapering off at about your rate I also felt withdrawal symptoms around the 16 hour mark. This is how i look at it..

Slow taper= drawn out minor withdrawals that is really your body adjusting and by the time you jump your body will be used to the low amount and it shouldnt be in that much shock. I think you have a good plan and i also think your withdrawals will be bearable. Goodluck mate!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:53 am 
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I found something on another forum that could possibly be of help, I'm off in about an hour to get what I can of the following ingredients... I hope this really helps you guys!!

Default Thomas Recipe: Anyone Detoxing Needs to have this!
Pain, Addiction & Withdrawal Support
> The Thomas Recipe for Cold Turkey Withdrawal


PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas

THOMAS RECIPE
If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.

For the Recipe, You'll need:
1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.
2. Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).
3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.
4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper, Magnesium and Potassium (you may not find the potassium in the same supplement).
5. Vitamin B6 caps.
6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).

How to use the recipe:
Start the vitamin/mineral supplement right away (or the first day you can keep it down), preferably with food. Potassium early in the detox is important to help relieve RLS (Restless Leg Syndrome). Bananas are a good source of potassium if you can't find a supplement for it.

Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.

During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.

Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.

At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.

Continue to take the vitamin/mineral supplement with breakfast.

As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:39 pm 
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^Thanks for sharing the recipe. I have used it (and others) many times in the past. They do help, but won't cure anything. The most useful thing is the imodium. If you do a little research you'll find out why imodium can be a lifesaver in withdrawal scenarios.

Today I woke up feeling pretty bad. I had constant chills and my back was sweating a lot. I also had the crawling skin. ugh.

I waited approximately 4.5 hours before dosing my 2mg (morning) dose. At which point it had been 16 hours before my previous dose. Seems like I start to feel the slightest withdrawal effects 6-8 hours after my last dose. By 12 hours they become very noticeable. And by 14-16 hours they are just uncomfortable. And it takes a lot of strength to not dose.

Anyways, I dosed my two mg 1 hour and 2 minutes ago, and I'm starting to feel relief. Thank g0d.

I'm going to attempt to stay at 4mg/daily (again!). I've taken 4mg the past two days without much complications. I have to endure minor withdrawals for ~2-3 hours every night as my morning dose wears off, and then of course I wake up feeling crappy.

I will continue to post progress.

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 Post subject: Rough morning
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:33 pm 
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For the past 4 days I've stuck to 4mg/daily. 2mg in the morning, 2mg at night.

Lastnight was pretty rough on me. I didn't sleep well at all. I was having intense gastrointestinal issue. Extremely sharp pains in my abdomin along with diarrhea (the first time I've had it in a year!). Strange thing is, I was still very constipated. Sorry if this is graphic.

While this was going on, I was experience the onset of withdrawals. So I was toss and turning all night, along with trips to the bathroom.

Once I woke up, I delayed my dose 1.5 hours then took my 2mg. Unfortunately, 2 hours later, I'm still not feeling "good". I'm definitely feeling relieved, as most of the withdrawal symptoms are gone, but I still have some very minor symptoms. Lower back pain, fatigue, minor hot flashes. I just hope it doesn't get too much worse before my evening dose.

This is the longest I've gone consectutively taking 4mg/daily. This will make day 5. I think in another 2-3 days my body will be mostly adjusted and the symptoms won't be too noticeable, atleast that's what I'm hoping. So far it seems I experience the worse symptoms on days 3-5 on reductions.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:12 pm 
Sorry you're not feeling the greatest, Bubble. But you're doing good, in my opinion. This is not easy....tapering. There is obviously a pretty wide variety of personal experiences when it comes to this issue, but it just doesn't seem to come easily for many of us.
In my opinion, getting down to 4mg/day is pretty good milestone. I'm convinced, also, that with each individual buprenophine patient having different degrees of absorption, metabolism and so forth, explains in part why everyone's experiences vary so much. Some people seem to have no problem at all getting to 4mg or even 2mg/day, while others have a lot of trouble tapering from say 8mg down to 6-7mg/day. I find it interesting to say the least.
And what a wide array of symptoms we all may experience in terms of withdrawal while tapering! Sorry you've had the gut trouble....seems to be a pretty common one. For me, however, even when in full-blown w/d from full-agonists, the GI stuff wasn't a big problem. What gets me are the leg aches and lethargy and cravings, and insomnia. Now with tapering the Suboxone, I've not run into that terrible insomnia, but have experienced mostly the classic signs that seem to go more with bupe w/d (runny nose, teary eyes, yawning) and then my personal most painful symptom which is deep, deep leg aches.
Anyway, really I posted to encourage you and tell you "good job!" And I agree that you should be through the worst of it. Almost every time I've reduced my dose, I feel better within 4-6 days. Try to hang in there and stick where you're at. That is if you're really committed to weaning. I have, far too many times, caved in and taken more and just prolonged the process. Since I've done that so many times on my journey, I'd have to recommend against it....again, if you really want off Sub in a predictable period of time.
Thank you for posting your experiences with this. I'll update my thread soon as well. Take care!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:58 am 
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Thanks for the encouraging words setme. About an hour after that post I began to feel a lot better. I still had mild symptoms but my energy and mood went up drastically. Strange as it is, about 50 % of the time I begin to feel the onset of withdrawal from sub I get this "mental clearness" as well. I get a bit of motivation and creativity. It's really quite enjoyable, but the physical symptoms are impossible to ignore. I credit it to the lack of toxicity in my body. It feels really good. Can't wait to achieve that state with no withdrawal.

My lower left abdomen is still hurting. I think I have a serious obstruction there. It's feels very bloated and I continue to get sharp pains, probably from gas that is stuck there. Really need a way to relieve the constipation as it is starting to cause very uncomfortable side effects.

Thanks for the good wishes. 4mg does feel like a big milestone, but when my racey mind thinks of where it wants to be (2mg or less), it makes me feel like I'm still on such a high dose and I have such a long way to go. I know that I need to take it slow, and I'm trying to keep my eye on the prize.

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 Post subject: Day nine on 4mg
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:40 pm 
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Well, this marks day nine on 4mg/daily (2mg in AM, 2mg in PM). I'm feeling just fine other than some serious backpain, which I can't find any cause for. I must have lifted something wrong. My lower back has had bad pain for three days now. I would always get extremely bad lower back pain with withdrawals, but I have no other symptoms of withdrawal, so I think this pain is "real" pain.

We have to be careful when on a medication like suboxone. It can mask certain things we should be feeling. I think I probably hurt my back, but didn't really realize how bad it was, because of the suboxone.

The 4mg dose seems to be working just fine. My energy is normal, mood seems normal, and physically (besides the back) I'm feeling normal (as normal as I can feel).

I know I'm approaching the dark road in this journey. Tapering below 4mg is where the symptoms really start to show themselves. I'm trying to get myself mentally prepared and "ready".

I'm debating my next reduction. I was planning on going to 3mg (2-AM 1-PM). After doing some more reading, it might be better for me to try and do 3.5mg. I guess I could give 3mg a try and if it's too tough go back up. Now that I'm feeling "okay" on 4mg, I have a new safety dose that I can go to (4mg) and not feel like I'm going backwards.

I'm planning on trying the reduction around the two week mark. So that would be in five days. Two weeks seems likes enough time, but I realize if I need more, then I can take more time. I'm trying to fight the "urgency" I have to get on a lower dose of this medication.

Thanks for all the support, it has been more than helpful, it has been inspiring. Reading everyones stories and experiences, listening to their advice, just makes me feel like we are really in this together, which is such a good feeling. Addiction is the most isolating experience I've had. The word "alone" does not do justice to how I felt by the end of my abuse. Thanks to everyone who continues to post on this forum and lend their support to other struggling addicts.

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 Post subject: 3mg here I come...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:53 am 
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Well, yesterday made 2 weeks on 4mg. As far as I can tell, I've stabilized at 4mg. I'm not experiencing any symptoms, excluding when I first wake up and right before my evening dose where I'm feeling a little achy and fatigued.

I've set up my "weekly pill box" alternating 3mg and 4mg. Tomorrow is my first dose of 3mg. I'm planning on taking 2mg in the morning and 1mg at night.

I'm starting to wonder if I should just try and drop down to 3mg/day, and skip the alternating doses. I don't know, guess I'll see how I'm feeling come Wednesday. I'm also curious if it would be more beneficial to take three 1mg doses spread throughout the day as apposed to 2mg/1mg.

If I take 1mg in the morning, 1mg in the afternoon, and 1mg in the evening, I feel like it would be easier to get to 2mg. I could just skip the afternoon dose. I don't know, stuff for me to consider. It's just hard to get accurate 1mg doses out of the 8mg pill. I have a pill cutter, but the suboxone seems to "break apart" when cutting below 2mg.

Anyways: I'm at 4mg and feeling fine. Tomorrow = 3mg. Will definitely post on any side-effects or progress.

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 Post subject: Third day on 3mg
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:22 pm 
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This is day three of being on 3mg daily. So far I haven't experienced any symptoms. Nothing out of the ordinary, nothing worth mentioning. With that said, I usually feel reductions the most on days 3-5 after the last drop. If this is the case, then tonight should be a little rough. Time will tell. As of now, I feel fine. Have been sleeping like a rock, literally. It's been extremely difficult to get up in the mornings.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:35 pm 
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bubblebobble - while our situations appear a little different, I wanted to offer you my congratulations on what you've accomplished. Keep up the good work and hang in there. I am definitely buying the advice on this forum about moving at your own speed. There is no easy way out of dependence, but we can make it tolerable if we move slowly and listen to our minds.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:51 pm 
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^ I completely agree Matt, thanks for the reply.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:44 pm 
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I am now taking my second 1mg dose for the day. I began to get some hot flashes and get a little anxious about an hour before I took this dose. It is dissolving now. I'm hoping this takes away all the symptoms.

As for today's last 1mg dose, I'm going to try and wait until right before I go to sleep. I really don't want any sleep interruption. From my previous experience with this taper, nighttime is always the worst for me. Hopefully I can avoid that this time around since I'm dosing three times a day.

This is definitely the biggest drop I've made thus far at a 25% reduction in daily dosage. With that said, I'm also feeling the most positive and mentally confident with this reduction. Hoping this attitude lasts...

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