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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:27 am 
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I don't want to jinx myself, but so far this has been the most painless reduction I've made yet. I've yet to feel any major symptoms worth mentioning. Nights have been just fine, getting plenty of rest. Today went well, I'm getting ready to take my nightly 1mg dose.

To be completely honest, so far 3mg has been very effective; if not the most effective dose. I know it's still early, this is only day four. But so far I've been getting a lot of energy and even slight euphoria from my 1mg doses. While this is definitely a good thing, it's also kind of scary. While it's definitely not a "high", it's more than sub ever did in the past. Weird how my lowest dose so far is giving me the best results. Maybe it has something to do with the antagonistic prop of bupe? Idk. As of now, I'm just hoping things dont change. It would be a bummer to all the sudden get WD. Normally I would already be feeling them by now.. Go figure

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 Post subject: One week on 3mg/day
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:00 pm 
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Today makes a week of being on 3mg a day. This has been the easiest reduction I've done so far, which is surprising. I anticipated a difficult one being that I'm below 4mg and this is a 25% reduction; but I'm not complaining...

I think dosing 1mg three times a day has helped make this a easier transition.

After doing more research on the net it seems a lot of people get better results from smaller doses. I'm regretting the fact that I was on such a high dose for so long. But then again, there's no use dwelling on the past. I'm down to 3mg, and that's really far from where I started. I'm excited about getting my dose lower. It really feels good when I can take less, I get a feeling of accomplishment and strength.

Hopefully in a week I will be ready to make my drop to 2mg. I'm praying it's as easy as this drop has been. I'm going to keep a positive mindset, as that seems to be one of the most important things in reducing.

*Dose anyone know if I would be able to call my doctor and get him to "call-in" a change for my next two prescriptions? I really want to get the 2mg pills. Breaking the 8mg down into 1mg pieces is becoming a real chore, and sometimes impossible. I end up with a bunch of crumbs. Thanks.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:03 pm 
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I was splitting my doses up during all the tapper. Somehow - psykological- it gives you something to work towards to - the evening dose for example, and then you can just give it one hour more. Dont you guys have temgesic where you live? In my country they comes in 0.40 and 0.20 - so it makes it practical easy to go from 1x 2mg to 10 x 0.20 and then skip one or two when you feel for it.
The taper is a somewhat boring periode, i think i watched HBO`s complete Deadwood, The Wire and Curb the enthuisasm at least a couple of times. :)
I allso felt more psykological anxity while tapping then i used to do - but to my surprise that actually seems to have improved abit after stopping.

I keep trying to ask myself a simply question: do you want to be on medication the rest of your life?
If yes: Suboxone seems to work for some ppl - i didnt for me personally, neither did methadone - i was miserable on both.
If no: There is no better time to start tapping or quitting(or prepare either) then now - every day might just make it more difficult to detox and get a life afterwards.


Good luck :D


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:12 am 
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Sounds like your in the UK? No, we don't have temgesic here. Sad, isn't it? That would be such a big help to me and so many others. Deadwood was an amazing series, one of the best in my opinion. And by far the best "western" ever done. Period. Loved that show. Really sucks that it got "cut short" without an actual ending..

Curb Your Enthusiasm is probably my favorite comedic show of all time. Larry David is a genius. The original Office is a close second.

Recent favorites: Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Dexter.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:06 am 
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Deadwood---Al Swearengen--nuff said.

Bubble Boy I love that 'avatar'? I sit at my computer some times and just watch it bounce up and down, it's soothing and funny.

During my taper I found several goals much harder to reach than others as well. If I remember correctly breaking below 4mg was one of my most difficult as well. I just took it easy and tried not to obsess over it, which was a bear since obsessing over shit is what I seem to do best. You seem to be getting into your head a little too much, worrying about each dose, just as I did. I can tell you it doesn't help the situation. Please, I am not trying to be harsh, I am trying to help you if I can. You are absolutely doing great, don't give that part a second thought. You are steadily working at decreasing your dose and that is what will eventually get you to zero sub, if that is your goal.

Try not to be so hard on yourself and remember for people like you and me this might take longer than we wanted. Remember that drugs take us farther than we were willing to go, they keep us there longer than we were willing to stay and they cost us more than we were willing to pay. This is a process and it looks to me like you are doing just fine. Just keep moving forward with your bouncing ass self man! Drop that dose by whatever YOU are comfortable with, I don't care if you drop by nanograms, a drop is a drop. You are sure to learn that YOUR recovery is unique to you and only you. It should be a source of pride and it will be profound and deeply personal.

Boy, I remember those 'alone' feelings too. Wicked, don't fall into that trap if at all possible. I for some strange ass reason seemed to enjoy wallowing in self pity and that my friend does you no good...no damn good at all, but it's hard to snap out of it, I know. Just be aware of it and remember you are absolutely NOT alone. There are many, many people here following your progress and wishing you astounding success!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:41 pm 
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^Thanks for the tips, advice and encouragement Romeo. I really appreciate it.

I had a bit of a slip the other day...

Friday I took 2.5mg all day. Then Saturday I took 2.0mg all day. Then Come Sunday, I took 5mg throughout the day. I basically dosed to deal with anxiety. I was going to a "social function" and was feeling anxious about it, so I took 3mg before the event and 2 more mg while I was there. It didn't do much of anything but give a metal "comfort". I'm trying not to get myself too "down" about it. I know this type of thing happens. And I can see now that I have to get myself more mentally prepared if I'm going to get clean and stay sober. I'm trying not to let this set me back too much.

Today I'm dosing 3mg. I'll do the same tomorrow. Then I'm going to drop to 2.5mg and try the liquid method. 1mg morning, .5mg afternoon, 1mg night. We will see how it goes. I'll be sure to post.

Please, if anyone has any special advice/tips on the liquid taper method, do share. I've done so much searching on it, and I'm still a little confused on "how" to dose it. Just squirt under tongue, and let sit? How long? Do I swish?

Thanks for any help guys.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:45 am 
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Good to hear from you:)
I allso slipped a few times, while reducing. For example i went to a difficult birthday- family, and took around 50% more buprenophine. I spiked it with a small doze diazepam( about 1 mg lexotan). It left me in a kinda "high". Not methadone knockout, but more gitty and silly`ish.
Social anxiety is defenately allso something i will need to deal with. After 15 day off the subu i still feel going out, to buy food for example, will pump a unnatural high amount off adrenalin into my blood. Which then leads to tension in shoulders and headache.
On a positive note: talking with good friends seems to be more rewarding. I can imagine that it eventually will turn out to be something like; socializing with ppl you like will be better and give you a natural "up" feeling, but being put in a room with ppl you dont know - starting a new job, study or something, will be more difficult, because you wont be numb on drugs anymore.
Someone else have to help you with the liquid taper questions.

Btw, i dl`ed Ricky Gervais and Steve Merchants` Extras, it might not beat The Office but it still have some really memorable scenes:)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:26 am 
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bubblebobble - hang in there. there are no set backs. I tried doing a rapid taper from full agonists - failed. I tried a slow taper from full agonists - failed. I started out on this board with a rapid taper from Sub - taking longer than I thought but starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. And I was "just" taking pain medications per doctors orders. This is hard stuff - especially when you're trying to live your life in the process.

As for the liquid taper, I'm taking it right now actually. I found it best to dose at 1ml, twice a day. Just my opinion. I just squirted the 1ml in my mouth and swished around for 20 min. That's all it takes. As long as you coat the side of your mouth and under the tongue, you're gonna absorb it. But give it a good 20 min to be sure. I started at .25mg per dose and now I am down to .15mg per dose. Expect to move to .1mg sometime this week or just stop. The .25mg dose (per 1ml) was effective for me. But .15mg doesn't seem to be too effective. But maybe that's because I dropped too soon. But starting to feel better and am thinking about making the jump off soon. We'll see.

Stay at it and best of luck.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:03 am 
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The fact that you can be honest about your 'slip up' speaks volumes as to how far you have come. Most active addicts will lie, lie and lie some more about something like that. It's called denial. I did it regulary while on OC's and the like.

You also said, I know this type of thing happens...damn right it does, because we're addicts! The addict brain is wired to F@#& up. Over time we can learn how to unwire some of this to minimize the risk of relapse, but there are no guarantees.

Just keep moving forward as best you can and try not to beat yourself up too bad. You have a come a long way and that's where your focus should be.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:27 am 
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Thanks for all the kind remarks guys. It really helps to get encouragement and understanding from others similar to myself. Yesterday and especially today have been kind of tough. I don't know if it's all in my head or if my day of "double dosing" has spiked my tolerance temporarily. I've been feeling anxious and minor withdrawal throughout the day, and it seems like my next 1mg dose can't get here soon enough. I just dosed my last 1mg for today 2 hours ago and I'm already feeling the need for more. I'm going to do my best to just hold out. If this is in relation to my taking 5mg Sunday, it shouldn't last but a couple more days.

Filur, Extra's is an awesome show. The laughs might not be as abundant as compared to the Office but they are really good ones when they happen. The delivery in Extra's is genius.

Matt, I'm curious, have you notice any difference in effect on lower (less than 1mg) doses? I've read a bunch about "less is more". I'm wondering if you found suboxone to actually be *more* effective at doses below 1mg.

Thanks a lot for the kind words Romeo. I needed the pick me up. I'm trying to stay positive. Will continue to post.

I hope all of you are doing well.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:56 am 
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bubblebobble

you can definitely "feel" your dose below 1mg (IMO). But I wouldn't say you can feel it more.

What I've heard others say on the board and which I have experienced is that the lower the dose, the longer it takes for your body to get adjusted to that new dose. It sounds from your post like your still feeling a little lousy at 1MG. As you may recall, I am down to .3mg. I could jump off altogether today. Easily. But my goal from the get go was to jump off with minimal lingering PAWS. I don't expect zero PAWS. But I want to know that when I get off the Sub I can stay off all opiates including Sub. So I am taking it slow and only moving down when my body is minimally feeling "90%" or what I call "pretty good."

I might consider giving yourself a few more days on 1mg. Until you feel 90%. It sounds like you're close. a little anxiety and minor withdrawal is to be expected. It's unavoidable when dropping your dose. But for me, it was about being able to get through my day without any material adverse effects. That's always been my definition of 90% and my trigger to lower my dose.

Hope this helps. Keep at it and forget about the 5mg. It doesn't matter and is in the past.

Matt


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:27 pm 
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Good advice Matt, I second that.

All I would add is the fact that when I had a slip up I would definetely feel it the next day and usually the day after that too. I think this is why a slow taper is so important. When you do cut your dose, make a small cut and see if you can live with that. It's better than decreasing your dose then having to increase it then trying to decrease it again too soon. A yo-yo taper just screws with your mind needlessly. I shouldn't even be talking because I was a bad yo-yo taper guy.

Matt, you continue to sound like you're doing well too! Keep up the good work guys.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:58 pm 
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Thanks for the advice guys. :wink:

Just to clarify, Matt are you on .3mg a day? Or .3mg twice a day?

I'm down to 3mg a day. 1mg Three times a day.

I still have quite a ways to go. But the more I drop the less suboxone I use. At this rate, I'm hoping I already had my last doctors visit. I still have two refills (90 pills) left to go. One less doctors appointment would save me $280.00, so it would be well worth it to try and make these last 90 pills work.

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 Post subject: Down to 2.5mg/day
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:32 am 
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I've been on 2.5mg/day or less for eleven days now. I tried dropping to 2mg from 3mg, but I was experiencing some uncomfortable effects that I couldn't push through. I yo-yo'd for a few days (2-3-2-3-2.5-2), and then just decided to stay at 2.5mg, which hasn't been that difficult at all. I think the initial attempt at dropping to 2mg a day helped make 2.5mg very easy on me.

My next two days are set up for 2.5mg. Then, starting on wednesday I'm going to attempt 2mg a day. 1mg in the morning and 1mg in the evening. Wish me luck. I will post on my progress.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:42 am 
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I remember complaining every time i was getting my sub on the center; they asked how i was doing on the weekly dose, and every time i would say - bop bop, not feeling fully adjusted really. And every time they would say; you said the same last week when you dose was higher. So you do adjust eventually:)
But it can pull your teeths out at day 4-5 on the new lower dose. Splitting the dose helped me personal - i felt it made me "peak" in the evening, and somehow was a reward for working the taper during the dayli hours on a morningdose which sometimes felt abit insufficient. I think i did tripple split from around 2mg.

Good luck X 10000!!!!!!:)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:08 am 
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Good job in continuing to move forward.

I think stabilizing after each drop is very important, it sets you up for success instead of failure by moving too quick.

Thanks for keeping us posted.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:00 am 
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I had a slip up and used some roxy. I had it offered to me out of the blue at work a week ago from someone unexpected. It caught me so off gaurd I found myself just saying "yes". Luckily the suboxone diminished the high greatly, and I'm thankful for this. I'm trying to stay positive and just learn from the experience. I don't want to do it again. It only gave me feelings of failure and regret.

I've averaged a dose of 2.5mg/day for the month of November. Today marks the first day of me attempting 2mg/day. I've been feeling down the past few days. My dog has cancer and doesn't have long. Taking it one day at a time. Really can't wait to be sober again and have my life back...

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:29 am 
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bubblebobble,

Good to hear from you again.

I'm actually glad you tried the roxy and I'm glad all you got was the feeling of failure and regret. That could be an important part of your 'staying clean' toolbox. I'm not trying to be an a--hole, I just mean you should be able to use that experience, as you continue to move forward in your recovery, to stay away from roxy and the like.

Trying for 2mg a day, yee haw. Slow and steady wins the race, man. Good job.

I hate to hear that about your dog, I'm a big dog fan...have always had one, going back as far as I can remember. Unconditional love, what more can one ask for?

Again, good to hear from you and keep hanging in there.


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 Post subject: Having trouble
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:27 am 
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Still having issues getting to 2nd/daily. I haven't been able to stay at 2nd for more than two sequential days. I've been bouncing around 2.5, 2.25, and 2mg. I wanted to be off by christmas, but it's looking like I'll have to postpone that date by another month or so...

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:50 pm 
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Haven't had an update recently, how are you doing? I hope good, have you tapered down any more or are you stable yet? I jumped at 4 and it's day 8 and I am pretty good now, it wasn't as bad as some things you will hear but I think you'r more courageous than me, I couldn't taper at all and stay consistent especially on bad days or weeks I would go all the way up again so I had to bite the bullet. Good luck.


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