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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:11 pm 
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Hi Folks,

I will not tell the whole story, just some basics. I would also love some TAPER SUGGESTIONS. I would be so grateful.

Been on Sub 7 Years
Last 2 Years, Avg. of 1mg Daily (1x in AM)
Currently down to .5 (1x in AM)

In 6 Years, been off SUB totally 2 times. Each time for 3-4 Weeks.

The last time was 2 years ago. I was on .75 Daily, and jumped off from approx .375. I lasted for 3 weeks.

LAST TAPER EXPERIENCE
DAY 1-DAY 3: NOT SO BAD - MILD INSOMNIA
DAY 4: THIS IS WHEN IT STARTED....COLD...HEAVINESS...FATIGUED

Went on walks which helped ALOT!

DAY 5 - DAY 10: Didn't feel great, but kept moving.

* DAY 11: THE CRASH. This began the WORST 10 days of my life. I felt like 1,000,000 pound. Super heavy. Couldn't move. My body was too heavy to pick up out of bed and move. Shivering. Could NOT get warm. (Next time I will make sure we have sunny weather, as WARMTH is KEY)

DAY 11- DAY 21: Horrible. Depressed. COld. HEAVY. The heavy feeling is what caused the FATIGUE and immobility.

DAY 22: Couldn't take it anymore. GAVE UP.

This time I would like to succeed. I believe the half-life or plasma level is much greater than anyone has established.

Since I have been on it for 6 years, my cells are saturated.

GOAL: I am on .5. I would like an 8 WEEK TAPER that would get me to the JUMPING point around JULY 1st.

ANY IDEAS ?

I am on .5 today. I just take ONE morning dose, which maybe is not good ?

Here is what I thought:

(Will take single dose at 7AM)

10 WEEK TA
PER

.5 DAILY FOR 3 WEEKS
.5 EVERY OTHER DAY - 1 WEEK (alternating with .25)
.5 EVERY 3 DAYS - 1WEEK (alternating with .25)
.5 EVERY 4 DAYS - 1 WEEK (alternating with .25)
.25 DAILY - 1 WEEK
.25 EVERY OTHER DAY - 1 WEEK (Alternating with .0125)
.25 EVERY 3 DAYS - 1 WEEK (Alternating with .0125)
.25 EVERY 4 DAYS - 1 WEEK (Alternating with .0125)


JUMPING POINT (10 WEEKS FROM NOW - THAT WEEK I WILL HAVE HAD 1mg total for the entire week)

Any suggestions ?

(My Taper period is a range from 8 - 10 weeks to get to the jumping point, which I would like around July 4th)

I would love any ideas ?

Also is it true the pills --- you only Absorb 15% ? Really ?

If this is true, the .5 I take now - I am basically getting 1/7th of that....?


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 Post subject: Good Schedule
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:15 pm 
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Hi ByeByeSub,

It looks like you already have a great taper method down. You can research some of the older posts on it but considering everyone is a bit different, you may have the best taper method because you know how your own body reacts.

Too bad you couldn't have stuck it out previously when you jumped. Wow, it sounded pretty bad. But don't you wonder how you would have felt if you had lasted 4 or 5 weeks? This drug does take a long time to leave the body, but I am surprised you had such a hard time with it. Look up Laddertippers posts on her tapering. She got down really low and didn't have that hard of time with it. And she too was on it about the same amount of time. If you can't find it, I will and post it for you.

Welcome here and I wish you the best on your taper and jump.

Rule

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Don't take yourself so damn seriously


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:52 pm 
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Posts: 91
Check out my and Sweet 16's A tale of 2 Quitters. 2 different taper methods that have both worked. THe first 5 days off sucked because of no sleep but I am at 30 days and have felt great for the last probably 10 of those days and the symptoms I had before were minimal. I jumped at .025mg I think. If you are on the pills, I highly recommend the liquid taper as it allows you to get accurate doses down to the microgram level. I also split my doses so I could sleep. That helped a ton as I would eventually not feel the need for the evening dose and I would just eliminate it. If you are at .5mg now I would try dropping to .4mg and take it .2mg in morning and .2mg at night. It took me about 5-7 days to adjust to each drop and then I would drop again. Honestly I would not even contemplate jumping until well below .1mg. This is a SUPER strong drug. I felt the drop from .0325 to .025. If you have the supply, take your time. That is the most important thing.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:57 pm 
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The Tale of 2 Quitters will give you an idea of WD's and what to expec tonce you reach those low levels. The Liquified taper chart from Diary of a Quitter is awesome and helped me a ton.


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 Post subject: Re: Good Schedule
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:27 pm 
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rule62 wrote:
Hi ByeByeSub,

It looks like you already have a great taper method down. You can research some of the older posts on it but considering everyone is a bit different, you may have the best taper method because you know how your own body reacts.

Too bad you couldn't have stuck it out previously when you jumped. Wow, it sounded pretty bad. But don't you wonder how you would have felt if you had lasted 4 or 5 weeks? This drug does take a long time to leave the body, but I am surprised you had such a hard time with it. Look up Laddertippers posts on her tapering. She got down really low and didn't have that hard of time with it. And she too was on it about the same amount of time. If you can't find it, I will and post it for you.

Welcome here and I wish you the best on your taper and jump.

Rule


Thanks for the welsome Rule62!

I will look up what you suggest...Thank you!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:37 pm 
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NoMorePills wrote:
Check out my and Sweet 16's A tale of 2 Quitters. 2 different taper methods that have both worked. THe first 5 days off sucked because of no sleep but I am at 30 days and have felt great for the last probably 10 of those days and the symptoms I had before were minimal. I jumped at .025mg I think. If you are on the pills, I highly recommend the liquid taper as it allows you to get accurate doses down to the microgram level. I also split my doses so I could sleep. That helped a ton as I would eventually not feel the need for the evening dose and I would just eliminate it. If you are at .5mg now I would try dropping to .4mg and take it .2mg in morning and .2mg at night. It took me about 5-7 days to adjust to each drop and then I would drop again. Honestly I would not even contemplate jumping until well below .1mg. This is a SUPER strong drug. I felt the drop from .0325 to .025. If you have the supply, take your time. That is the most important thing.


I believe my jump was also around .25, that is why this time I thought I could at least try for .125. The thing I believe is this, some of these very low doses such as .25 and .125 as so low that you may feel miserable. At a certain dose, there is a fine line between feeling miserable tapering and feeling miserable jumping. You know what I mean ? I believe there will be discomfort no matter what, so why prolong the taper forever and suffer. I have done this for 6 years now. Constantly trying to taper down, and being sick pretty jmuch for 6 years. I have not had a life for a while. Missed work, life, etc.

Since I have experienced what a withdrawl from .25 feels like, at least I have a reference.

The liquid taper sounds good. This drug is very strong, and I believe any taper no matter how low will still not be enough to eliminate the PAWS. This for me was the tough part. The Acute crummmyness was limited. The PAWS seem monumental.

No taper is gonna elimnate PAWS with someone like me on it for 6 years.

So for me it has to be within reason. I am guessing I will try to get down to .125 however if I am deeply miserable on this LOW dose, than it may be easier just to jump. This is where I sort of disagree. I do not have the time to do the drawn out taper at this point, as I keep getting Kidney Stones because Sub inhibits urination as all Opiates do. My body has become so sensitive to opiates it's whacked out of rhythym, and the sooner for me the better. So time is becoming more and more important.

So I have 8 weeks here. And I am on .5

.5-----> .25 (Maybe jump) -----> .0125 (And then jump unless I am too miserable on this dose, and if this is the case, then a .25 jump makes more sense)

Sleeping will be the #1 issue as I am not sure if I can divide a total dose of .25 daily into 2 doses of .125.

I realize that if I continue to take 1 dose in the AM as I have been, at a certain point, sleep will be difficult.

However, when I did the last taper and jump, sleeping was not a problem.

Cheers,

ByeByeSub


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:17 pm 
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Have you considered throwing out / flushing all your remaining Sub once you have your last dose?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:28 am 
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tearj3rker wrote:
Have you considered throwing out / flushing all your remaining Sub once you have your last dose?


No. Last time I missed 3 weeks of work, 21 days. By reinducting, I salvaged the wreckage of my life, and kept my job.

I plan on succeededing this time, by jumping from a lower dosage.

The big mistake I made last time is that I jumped from .75 to my jumping dose in a matter of 2 weeks. I think I needed more time.

I appreciate your suggestion, I get it. But I have responsibilities, people, animals to take care of work. So I will not throw them out, but this time I have 2 major factors that are positive which I lacked before:

Sunny Weather (Last time it was Nov and freezing, cold and damp. No no. You need to bake in the sun & to fight depression)
Human Support (I was alone before, wife was out of town. And I had increased responsibilities. Recipe for disaster)
A lower Jumping Dose
A more gradual taper TO the jumping dose

Having human love and support is key.

Cheers,

ByeByeSub


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:00 am 
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Good luck. We all have different w/d symptoms. I too am suffering, but will make it.... Why get off if it works for you and keeps you working and stable? Must be a reason...


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:10 am 
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I only read your first post so if i repeat what someone already said im sorry.,,But im gonna be following your thread cause I too have been on sub for yrs,,8 yrs come july and im wonderin about it bein harder to do after bein on it so long.
the only things i can think of to help youve probably already heard,,but immodium is good and its over the counter,,buy the generic,,its cheaper and works the same,,i tried it before thinkin it wouldnt help and i was surprised at how much it did help,,I think i took 6 pills but you cant take it long or your body becomes dependant on em,,plus theres that blood pressure med ,,damn , cant remember the name right now but my wife got some once from her doctor for wd's and i tried them and they really calmed me down,,and theres also nuerotin,,ive been on that for a long time and its something you can become dependent on too, but it calms you down and they are using it in some detox places.,,but i think the hardest thing when detoxing is forcing yourself to get up and out and doin something,,even if its just a walk around the block,,I have a punching bag,,and its something i like to do so gettin exercise isnt as hard.
anyway,,i really wish you luck,,and dont let the mental shit keep ya down,,be positive,,and be LOUD about it,,say,,YEA,, FUCK YOU SUB! AND EVERY OTHER DRUG!,CAUSE IM GONNA WHIP YER ASS!,,,lol
Tattoo Tommy


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:37 pm 
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I think its good you are planning it out, I know I had too. Also, can you get comfort meds? I was too afraid to use benzos, but Hydroxyzine, Clonidine and some sleep meds help. I was lucky to have a friend provide me with Ambien for a few days, which helped. I only didn't sleep for an entire night one time.

Keep a positive attitude, be sure you want to get off. The weather is huge too, I was lucky to have some nice days which allowed me to walk the dog.

I have an extremely fast metabolism, so my WDs kicked in much sooner then it seems they do for most, by day 6 I was well on my way to getting over it. The fatigue and depression dragged awhile longer, but I feel pretty good. Still fatigued but not as seriously anymore.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:53 am 
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I tried to jump. at .25 failed miserably. Up straight three nights. All my body would do was burn. Tried comfy drugs. Couldn't eat enough. After screaming for 3 days I finally took .25 and was able to sleep. Tried not to allow such a horrible experience not ruin my chances to quit this drug. Is the quick withdrawal with the Doctor better? Worth it. This is terrible. Suffer at each and every adjustment. Haven't sleep much for months now. Help.


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