It is currently Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:06 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:00 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:03 pm
Posts: 1543
It is important to distinguish between physical dependence and addiction. Everyone who takes buprenorphine regularly becomes physically tolerant and dependent; that is, essentially, the point of taking it.

This is different than 'addiction', where a person is obsessed with using a substance or behavior. Those who have experienced both know the difference. I used to take effexor, and was 'physically dependent' on the medication' if I missed a dose I got sick, and when I finally stopped it I went through miserable withdrawal. But I would never have considered myself 'addicted' to it, as I never thought about it, other than to take it each day.

People taking buprenorphine properly become completely tolerant to it, and don't think about it other than when taking it. Some become obsessed with it during specific times, for example while trying to taper it. I think that some people use it in an addictive manner, taking it when they feel depressed and feeling that it lightens the load a little bit... but even in those cases, they feel very little effect, and most of the boost comes from a placebo effect.

I think that THIS is the area where we can educate others-- by saying, listen you dumbshit, I'm physically dependent on it, not addicted. Look it up.

Just a suggestion... although I never get along with people very well!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:59 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:43 am
Posts: 1019
Location: Buffalo New York
suboxdoc wrote:
It is important to distinguish between physical dependence and addiction. Everyone who takes buprenorphine regularly becomes physically tolerant and dependent; that is, essentially, the point of taking it.

This is different than 'addiction', where a person is obsessed with using a substance or behavior. Those who have experienced both know the difference. I used to take effexor, and was 'physically dependent' on the medication' if I missed a dose I got sick, and when I finally stopped it I went through miserable withdrawal. But I would never have considered myself 'addicted' to it, as I never thought about it, other than to take it each day.

People taking buprenorphine properly become completely tolerant to it, and don't think about it other than when taking it. Some become obsessed with it during specific times, for example while trying to taper it. I think that some people use it in an addictive manner, taking it when they feel depressed and feeling that it lightens the load a little bit... but even in those cases, they feel very little effect, and most of the boost comes from a placebo effect.

I think that THIS is the area where we can educate others-- by saying, listen you dumbshit, I'm physically dependent on it, not addicted. Look it up.

Just a suggestion... although I never get along with people very well!


Well I cant argue with that DOC. I now see the difference more clear than I did b4, like yourself when I was on oxy I was addicted to it I didn’t take it I got sick and that’s all that was on my mind. But with SUB its not like that its more like a vitamin to me at this point I eat, work out and shower than take my meds if im running behind so be it SUB isn’t all on my mind like it was with the OCs.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Addicted
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:38 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:35 am
Posts: 2801
Location: Southwest
Hey All,

I'm a new poster here but not new to Sub. Started last May and so far doing okay. What got my hair up on this subject was the list of things a person does to determine whether they're addicted or physically dependent.

I am one of those who will take extra if some is left over from my last appointment. Yes I do know it's addictive behavior and will look for either a sponsor or a professional addiction councilor.

But then I went to a Sub doctor to treat my addiction AND my physical dependence. They are not much help concerning my addictive ways, all they do is suggest I find someone to help me. Maybe even therapy would help as long as they are up to date on addictive behaviors.

Anyway, I just wanted you all to know that you pulled my covers on this one and that is a good thing because now I have to do something about it. I don't feel totally clean with that type of behavior. Actually I don't feel clean at all being on Sub, but time will tell whether I'll stay on it or not. My wife likes me better on it (of course), and my brother agrees. He took it for a physical dependence and was off in less than two months.

This is a very interesting and informative place. You all will be a great help to me in the coming months.


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject: Re: Addicted
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:30 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:43 am
Posts: 1019
Location: Buffalo New York
rule62 wrote:
Hey All,

I'm a new poster here but not new to Sub. Started last May and so far doing okay. What got my hair up on this subject was the list of things a person does to determine whether they're addicted or physically dependent.

I am one of those who will take extra if some is left over from my last appointment. Yes I do know it's addictive behavior and will look for either a sponsor or a professional addiction councilor.

But then I went to a Sub doctor to treat my addiction AND my physical dependence. They are not much help concerning my addictive ways, all they do is suggest I find someone to help me. Maybe even therapy would help as long as they are up to date on addictive behaviors.

Anyway, I just wanted you all to know that you pulled my covers on this one and that is a good thing because now I have to do something about it. I don't feel totally clean with that type of behavior. Actually I don't feel clean at all being on Sub, but time will tell whether I'll stay on it or not. My wife likes me better on it (of course), and my brother agrees. He took it for a physical dependence and was off in less than two months.

This is a very interesting and informative place. You all will be a great help to me in the coming months.


Hey welcome to the forum man. Honestly I can’t tell you how much seeing a therapist/addiction specialist has helped my recovery in the long run. It’s like he called me out on all my bull shit early in my treatment which made me realize it is time to start taking things serious. And the thing about seeing someone 1 on 1 is it allows you to talk about things you can’t talk about with anyone else for ex. Partner, friend, parents or whoever it may be there just some things you don’t want to tell the those people no matter how close you are to them. I love my mom and dad plus my GF but I cant talk about how in the early stage of recovery I was having terrible cravings for heroin but having a counselor I had that out let. and you also learn so much from them as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:47 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
Hello Rule and welcome,

You certainly aren't the first person to take extra suboxone when things don't go just right, and you won't be the last. It's something that you can change. This is why most people only dose once daily while on sub. Take it and forget about it. It gets us out of the habit of popping a pill when we're stressed or upset.

I didn't have an addiction counselor, but I do have an individual therapist. He may not specialize in addiction, but he's helped me deal with all the issues in my life that I used drugs to run away from. So for me that was more valuable than an addiction counselor. But of course everyone is different and you would probably benefit from either type of counselor.

May I ask you a question? Why don't you feel "clean" on suboxone? Is it only because you're taking extra? Or is it something else? I look at it this way...All those crazy behaviors that went along with active addiction and that which practically destroyed my life and marriage are gone, absolutely GONE, since I've been on suboxone. For that reason alone (and others that I won't get into) I feel VERY "clean" (although I hate that word) on suboxone. Just think about it. I only mention this because if you're sitting here telling yourself you're not clean, you probably aren't feeling very good about yourself. But look at what you've accomplished - you're off your DOC and although i don't know your story, you're probably like most (all?) of us whose lives have completely turned around since going into addiction remission with the help of suboxone.

Maybe for now don't even think about "clean" or "dirty". Just work on how best to improve you and your life. When you tell yourself you aren't clean, you're judging yourself, and I don't think that's ever good. So focus on YOU, your family, and your recovery for now.

Again, welcome to the forum. I hope you like it here and enjoy lots of support and information. I think we've got a great bunch of people here. Good luck and take care.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:43 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:03 pm
Posts: 991
I understand the feeling that your life revolves around suboxone. I have been there. Sometimes I am still there. But I agree with ARM-ME that the anger is really more at the situation or the fact that I have addiction than at the suboxone. I have another medical condition and I hate that my life revolves around that too. Let me describe how I feel about that and how it controls my life and see if you find similarities.

I often can't make plans because I am not sure if I will be able to go.
It impacts my ability to work and can make me unpredictable or seemingly unreliable.
I am consistently having to seek out treatments for it or something to make it better if even only for a moments relief.
It has caused me to spend an outrageous amount of money.
It has impacted my friendships and the relationship with my spouse.
It sometimes makes me not interested in sex as "it" is more important at the time.
I often hide it from other people.
There is no cure and I am angry about that sometimes.

This is a medical condition. It has nothing to do with addiction. To me, what I described above sounds a whole lot like ACTIVE ADDICTION problems. Those are not the things people on suboxone tend to complain about....maybe a couple of them but for the most part they aren't. This is because at least there is an effective treatment for this condition. If I could find a treatment to get rid of even half of those symptoms I would be GRATEFUL for the treatment, not angry. In my opinion, the only difference with addiction and suboxone is that when we aren't truly accepting this condition as a real medical illness or disease. I do NOT believe I really had much of a choice in addiction. I do not think I really had an option when it came to taking too much. It's like pregnany women who eat soap or chalk. Someone might tell them it is their own behavior leading to this and they could avoid it by not buying the soap or the chalk. They could call a friend before taking a bite of the soap or the chalk, etc. etc. But those women don't get blamed because the science behind it (I believe) is that they are missing a hormone or chemical in their body as a result of the pregnancy that is causing them to have this strange craving and they are just trying to fulfill their body's need for that.

I truly believe I had no choice in getting addicted. Quite frankly, if there was a treatment for my other medical condition and it caused me to have a dependency on a drug that I may have to go to treatment for to get off of, I may not like it but I would still take the drug to get rid of those other symptoms of the active disease process because that just plain isn't living. Going off that treatment would no doubt cause my condition to surface again and there is no way I would go off of it and go back to that. There is nothing wrong with being hopeful you can get past this disease. Afterall, even with my other condition it does sometimes go away with menapause or pregnancy. If there was a treatment, I may go off the drug after menapause to see what would happen. Like with suboxone, I might choose to go off it or taper to see how strong my disease still was. And like the doc said, I would keep my options open to go right back on if my disease was too strong. Just like I would with my other condition.

I am grateful that I have an option and hope we never get forced back into the old school detox and 12 steps that don't work anyways. I am SO glad there is an option for me........at least for one condition.

Cherie

_________________
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.

- Winston Churchill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Bingo
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:43 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:54 am
Posts: 47
Location: NY NY
It all boils down to this: everyone is responsible for their own recovery. Try meetings, try maintenance, try counseling, or all three together. Whatever works for you is what you should stick with. People are dependent on other things besides drugs- NA people are dependent on their meetings, individuals are dependent on their therapist, and some are dependent on medicine for various conditions. If something is not for you, just stop doing it. But please, please don't bash on the method that failed for you, because what didn't work with you might work very well for another person. Blanket personal judging statements about whole groups of people are never correct. If Sub is not for you, just move on and quit complaining. You can't go the rest of your life blaming other people for your failures.

Ever yours,
J


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:56 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
Creel, thank you for an excellent post. I couldn't agree more. I'm really glad you found this forum - you have much to contribute. Keep posting!

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group