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 Post subject: Switching from H to Subs
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:32 pm 
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I was in methadone for 6 years. Reduced to 25 mg and finally after several attempts at higher doses, was able to get on suboxone after 24hrs without a dose.. Went ez was so surprised!! Been on subs 18 months... Relapsed the last three weeks on H. Bundle day IV. I want to get back on subs but every time I decide I chicken out... So worried about PW... Don't want to go detox as I will ruin everything... So disgusted can't seem to get the balls to do it.. Question is, what should I do to tradition? I'd there a standard amount of time to wait?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:45 pm 
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First- I'm not a doctor, but have kept up reading on this forum the whole time I've been on subs (almost 2 years). I had a pill addiction (opiates of course), so not sure if PW would be different when H is involved. Most people refer everyone to the COWS scale (just google it for an example), and say you should wait "X" number of hours. My experience was being inducted only about 4 hours after taking roxys, and I had a little bit of nausea and some sweats, but nothing unbearable. IMO, and this is just personally, I don't think you should have to wait 24 hrs to start on subs...that being said, I have seen a few posts where people DID go into PW, b/c they took the subs too early. I, like most people, hate going into WD's, so I took my subs as soon as I got them from the pharmacy, after seeing the doctor, and it had only been about 4 hours from when I took some roxys. Look at some of the other posts within this forum, and you'll see different experiences with induction. Everyone reacts differently. Good luck, and you're making a good choice to stick with subs.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:29 pm 
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I agree with Todd's comments. Heroin is diacetylmorphine, just another opioid agonist that has an intermediate halflife. The bottom line-- the longer you wait, the longer you risk overdose, incarceration, endocarditis... not even counting the misery of being owned by heroin.

The risk of PW is low if you wait at least 8 hours after heroin-- and very low if you wait 16 hours. IF you have PW, it never lasts long if you just keep taking buprenorphine/Suboxone. At worst, you feel lousy for 12 hours-- but that is unlikely.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:48 pm 
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Yeah thanks. Believe me, shooting H was a Nightmare and I don't know why I decided to go back. Well I do..I hurt my back and the painis is unbelievable. I thought I would just for a short time... Bahahahaha. What a bad idea. I just need to commit. Feeling pretty alone doesn't help. Have dealing with a lot of misery as of late and I welcomed the escape. Now I'm stuck. Maybe won't be as bad idk but I know what to expect. Not looking forward to it.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:22 pm 
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There is something you can look forward to, and that is the pain relief that is available with buprenorphine. Make sure you talk with your doctor about it, but dosing bupe for pain is a little different than dosing for addiction. The analgesic properties of sub last about 4 to 6 hours, even though it occupies your receptors for longer than that. So after you figure out your dose, your doctor will probably recommend that you take 1/4 of your dose every six hours. It should help with your back pain. It won't make you numb, emotionally or physically, but it will help.

And you're not alone. There are many of us here who have gone through the same pain and struggle. Talk to us and tell us how to help.

Amy

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:55 pm 
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OK.. Yes I've noticed that when I twice a day my sub I was in less pain. I'm a friggin d wreck worried about the WD. But tomorrow is the day. Taking my last dose tonight. So afraid, I don't have the fervor I should and I know this is going to ruin my life. I just made high honors deans list this semester and go back on the 21st. Just must get my act together. Feeling totally alone because it took me 7 years to get respect back. What was I thinking?!! Praying this goes well. I have subs here and was talking 8mg day but prescribed 16. I have monthly rx they have no clue. Just so up against it and alone. I can't take the stress


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:00 pm 
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Can't go to anyone... Can't tell anyone. Grrrrrrrrrr


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 12:48 pm 
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Did it...waited until I was in WD 22 on cows... Took 8mg. And then minutes later was shitting and legs arms were ten x worse. Ran for bags. Symptoms abated. Now what? Van I just try again tomorrow? I think it won't be as bad tomorrow as long as I don't use anything. I did 2 baga. It took away WD. People mistake naloxone AA a ttigggee to WD. It's only in auba so ppl don't shoot aubs..has nothing to do with pwd. So idk. I'm pissed at me but I can't do that wd shit


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:06 pm 
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64,
You were almost there man. Now starting over id wait a little louger and start out on a much smaller dose. 8mgs at once put you in wd.
Start with 2mgs, wait two hours, then 2mgs more. You ll get there.

Yes...you can begin again tomarrow or when enough time AND a high score on the COWS says Go.

Nobody likes wd, but as you know you ll have to have some to get stablized on bupe. If you dont use again today and let the next 24 hours go by then you can make it.

Go Slowly this time.
Im sorry your alone in all of this, Ill be here watching for you, lthers will too. Hang in there and get it done .
Also, go back up this thread and reread what Dr Junjg wrote to you. Good,sound advice.

Razor


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:19 pm 
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Yes, start with 2 mg, not 8! You are going to get through this part and you will succeed! Just keep at it. Take a much smaller amount next time. The transition may take up to a week or so. I wish I could tell you that it's easy, but a switch from heroin to sub is tricky. I'll see if I can get tinydancer to come on and advise you. She knows how it feels.

Amy

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:36 pm 
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Hi and welcome!

Sorry to hear you had a bad go around this last attempt. I think you should try again. If you can get from methadone to suboxone (and call it easy), you got this! I agree with Amy. Start on less next time. I've gone from H to sub a few times but my last successful induction on suboxone was from methadone. I think the hard part with inducting from H is that even if you don't get PWs, it is rarely a quick fix. It will take away the sickness but you might still feel a little off. Just stick with it and you'll even out. I hope you will try again. Maybe wait a little longer if you can, or score higher on the COWs, and then take a small dose, building up to a higher dose of you do not feel sick after an 30mins- hour.

Good luck!


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