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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:49 am 
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bboy,

I agree, even though this is a Pro-Suboxone forum, I think it's a Pro-Recovery forum as well, to ensure the best possible recovery for all interested, the pro's and the con's of Suboxone should be talked about. Going into Suboxone treatment, armed with the truth, is a great way to start recovery from opiate addiction. Going into Suboxone treatment with a bunch of misconceptions about Suboxone in your head, like I did, is a horrible way to start one's recovery.

I think we just gotta be respectful either way. I understand how difficult that can be for you right now with where you're at in your recovery, you're not happy at all with Suboxone, can't say I blame you, you had a rough road and Suboxone ended up not being the best choice for you. But you can take your shitty experience and share it with others in a respectful way and turn it into a positive.

I know when I quit Suboxone and went through that ridiculous wd, I hated Suboxone with every fiber of my being. I mean I HATED it!! About 4 months into my wd, I found this forum. I read a shit load of peoples stories before I made my first post and by then I was able to see that Suboxone, used properly, is a potentially life saving medicine for the chronic opiate addict. I was finally able to see how Suboxone gave me my life back, yeah, my wd sucked hard, but I had my life back!! I took that horrid wd experience and turned it into a positive by helping as many others as I can to taper off of Suboxone (when they decide the time is right). Those who do jump off a high dose, I offer them encouargement and the best advice I can muster at that particular moment in time.

How can you take this negative experience of yours and turn it into a positive??

Take care bud.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:05 pm 
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Well Romeo that is the true question at hand, how can I turn a negative experience into a positive with this experience? Because no matter how I post it, the community hear in some forum will look at it as “bashing” suboxone am I right so I don’t know how to word or say it without pissing people off. But that is what scares me about this forum is you only see the good abut suboxone but people need and have the right to know the negatives while looking at options for opiate dependency treatment. And I won’t lie if I knew just half of the stuff I know now I would of never started suboxone and I don’t want that to happen to anyone else is all I am getting at but if we can’t share the negative it will continue to happen to new comers which is wrong in my eyes. But I guess how do I share that without offending people like I mentioned up above. and when it comes to pain management is it wrong to think one works better than the other guys?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:21 pm 
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Bboy, I remember when you joined the forum in March of 2010. I also recall that when you first got here you were a big suboxone supporter. You even said it saved your life. Said you'd never go back to narcotics again. You only got negative about a year ago. Do you remember how/when that happened? I do and I'm sure you do as well.

I'm bringing this up now because you told Romeo that you couldn't find any way to turn your time on sub into a positive experience. Well, whether it's been 4, 5, or 6 years (it's not clear), I can tell you from your own words that you were happy on sub for at least the first 3 years. Go back and read your old posts. Remind yourself that you didn't always feel this anger and hatred that is so clearly inside you now. (That alone is not healthy for you.) Why hold all that negativity inside you towards a PILL? It's a fucking medicine!!! Anger like you have can effect all aspects of your life.

So please, go back and refresh your memory as to how you felt about sub over a year ago. And try to let the past go and move forward from here.

Oh and from reading your last post, it's clear that you didn't even read what I pasted above from Dr. Junig. I'm sure it will make things much more clear for you. Just follow the rules and you'll be fine.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:00 pm 
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bboy,

If you feel like it, you can certainly PM me your views on Suboxone. I'll talk them over with you, but you're probably not gonna like some of my answers to you?? I'm not trying to be rude by saying you're not gonna like some of my answers, I'm just trying to be honest with you.

You have a lot of pent up frustration regarding Suboxone and I think it would do you good to get some of that shit off your chest, you can shoot it to me straight (in a PM) and I'll give ya my honest opinion back? How's that sound?

Lastly, have you ever noticed that when you're pissed off to high hell, you don't always choose your words properly, I know I seem to do it with alarming regularity!! :D Blowing off steam on the forum probably ain't the best way to get your point across, but you can blow off steam to me if you wish.

K, I'm heading out to my NA meeting now, oh yeah, I pick up my 90 day key chain tomorrow!!! YAY ME!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:07 pm 
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Hat I was on suboxone for 5 years 9 months when I finally made the switch. And like most in the early part of suboxone it did help me get clean and I was happy and that’s why in the begin I was happy, but don’t get me wrong suboxone never worked great for my pain. But the anger started when the pain just continued to not change and when I started to notice the bad side effects but everyone told me it will get better just keep taking it things do get better, everyone as in my medical team I was working with. And that’s the anger, things never did get better but it was the same thing year after year lie after lie PAYMENT AFTER PAYMENT. And now looking back at things I actually did bring methadone up twice to my DR and both times I was told the BS stigma that follows methadone but really if I switched meant no more money these DRs could suck out of me because of how cheap Done is. But when the first emotionless thread popped up was when I finally reached my limits I wanted to post that thread for a long time but like we all saw people went crazy on me. But were my ill hatred comes in is what this drug did to mentally and physically I won’t get into that because it will just cause another rekus. And now that I am off suboxone I am realizing that it was the drug not me which makes my anger worst because everybody kept telling me no way it is not suboxone and that goes towards the whole lab rat thing after hearing that it really clicked in my head. And mostly like you said I use to be happy with suboxone the false hope I got from those times is what drives the anger because they don’t know what this drug will do long term but I was kept on it so long by medical professionals.

Romeo I rather have you be honest with me than sugar coast it. As you can see I post how I fell so I would only want that back. And if I start to have real bad anger I will pm you instead of posting in this thread. And thankyou for reaching out to me to do so and also for following my thread from the start not many people did.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:23 pm 
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Bboy, I think you said you were training to be a drug and alcohol abuse counselor, is that right? If so, you probably know that one of the techniques they use a lot is having people write a letter to the person(s) or drug that they are angry at. I'm starting to see the bigger picture of what you are saying, and I can see that you are angry at a lot of different people/things for different reasons. Even though you got al lot of it off of your chest here, I would take out some pieces of paper and put the headings: DOCTORS, MANUFACTURER, SUBOXONE, FORUM MEMBERS, etc. and under each heading write out all the reasons you are angry at them. Maybe it can help you unload all of the negative feelings you have and then you can just move forward with your methadone treatment without dragging around all that regret over the last 5+ years. Does that make sense?

I know older people like me always say stuff like this, but I have to say it because it's true. You have a lot of good years ahead of you. You're taking control of your recovery and your life now and it looks to me like you have a great future ahead. So do whatever it takes and kick those bad feelings about the last few years to the curb! Don't let it drag you down. Keep your eyes on the prize.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:26 am 
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boy". this is not good for my future on subs. anyone know what happen to quinie1959?? she left us by having surgery on suboxone?? she was 69 years old. i just know she would let us know how she's doing. i don't see me going off sub's like you all did. i only craved pain meds for 1 1/2 years wile in pain management. and now i'm on 20 mgs of suboxone for 1 1/2 years. but it did stop my heavy drinking. my family thinks suboxone is like antabuse. if i switch to methadone'. then could i drink beer a lot more? i think the answer to that is yes!! this dam topic put's me between a very hard rock and a hard place. i do believe in some of what b boy's saying. but hatmaker i have been on lexapro for 15 day's now and feeling more com about thing's. but it is such a small dose that maybe its the 4 mg up dose on the sub's. i just can't pin point the different's. hope it's the lexapro???
b boy ". going on the "subsux forum". would help those people have more to read about the bad part of suboxone. but i think you feel better here . you have the good and the bad and the ugly to work with here and more support and understanding.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:53 am 
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johnboy - I just checked on queenie's status and she last signed in on August 2nd, this year. That was only two weeks ago, so I'm sure she's fine. If you are concerned, you can always send her a private message. I know she would appreciate that.

Bboy - I said that about your time on sub, because your very first post here in March 2010 said you'd been on it for 3 years. So now, one year and 5 months later, is now just over 4 years. I was just confused, that's all I'm saying.

Lastly, I have to agree with everything Lilly said. As per usual, she gives GREAT advice that bears repeating.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:53 pm 
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thank you so much on queenie hat". b boy your cool!! hat i think your right on trying to explain to me on the medications. i don't want to count my chickens, but i feel much less w/d now' and all in all, feel good! so your right it wasn't all the w/d. the lexapro seem's to be working. yay yay maybe maybe!!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:58 pm 
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Lillyval wrote:
Bboy, I think you said you were training to be a drug and alcohol abuse counselor, is that right? If so, you probably know that one of the techniques they use a lot is having people write a letter to the person(s) or drug that they are angry at. I'm starting to see the bigger picture of what you are saying, and I can see that you are angry at a lot of different people/things for different reasons. Even though you got al lot of it off of your chest here, I would take out some pieces of paper and put the headings: DOCTORS, MANUFACTURER, SUBOXONE, FORUM MEMBERS, etc. and under each heading write out all the reasons you are angry at them. Maybe it can help you unload all of the negative feelings you have and then you can just move forward with your methadone treatment without dragging around all that regret over the last 5+ years. Does that make sense?

I know older people like me always say stuff like this, but I have to say it because it's true. You have a lot of good years ahead of you. You're taking control of your recovery and your life now and it looks to me like you have a great future ahead. So do whatever it takes and kick those bad feelings about the last few years to the curb! Don't let it drag you down. Keep your eyes on the prize.




THANK YOU SO MUCH LILLY!!!!!!!!!!

You speak the truth Lilly and I thank you for that. Your words of wisdom really just clicked with something in the back of my brain. Because you are so right and to hold all this anger with me is not healthy for my recovery and I need to learn how to kick it to the curb. But like Romeo said turn this bad experience into knowledge for new comers to see both sides of suboxone but the proper way. I also need to talk about this with my counselors and group members because that is the whole point of seeing/attending is to talk about things that are on my mind and hear numerous ways to cope with these feelings. I guess the anger is so strong because it was 5 almost 6 years of my life and I lost another 6 to addiction so the last 12 years that’s half my life I lost to this shit. And when I finally found suboxone I thought that was all over but that wasn’t the case and that is why I hold so much anger because the false hope and lies. But I do plan on writing this letter out because I think reading it/slash seeing it might really be great therapy for me and to bring this letter to go over with my counselors. So now I guess I got to think of how I can turn my knowledge into helping others not pissing people off lol and choose a better choice of words.

John boy I don’t drink so I couldn’t tell you if you would be able to drink more if you were on methadone but I do know people are drinking on it because some people get breathalyzers each day if suspected and only get like a quarter of their dose if failed and after 3 times you are detoxed and kicked to the curb. But really put your pain into perspective man and track it for the next couple months if you see no improvement what so ever than bring up the idea of methadone to your suboxone DR and see what he has to say. But really listen because some DR wont be honest with you about methadone because of the stigma that follows it and if you don’t think you got the right answerer. Call a methadone clinic and ask to speak to the RN and go from there.

Stay tune for a update tomorrow now that is over I would really like for you guys to continue to post in this thread and share what you have to say or what you are thinking when you read my post. And I ask be as honest as you want I can take it.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:32 pm 
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i think it would be a mistake" to switch to methadone. i think i'm doing better now that i am getting my meds under control. lexapro is known to be effective in 7 to 10 days. and the fullness in 2 too 3 weeks. i feel my anxiety and depression is lifting.
and thanks for the help!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:34 pm 
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johnboy wrote:
i think it would be a mistake" to switch to methadone. i think i'm doing better now that i am getting my meds under control. lexapro is known to be effective in 7 to 10 days. and the fullness in 2 too 3 weeks. i feel my anxiety and depression is lifting.
and thanks for the help!



That is good to hear man I hope you can keep improving over the next few weeks hear and hopefully this will be a long term thing for you. But even if you don’t plan on switching it would be a great idea to still keep a pain journal and each day at the same time write a entry, choose a pain scale 1 to 10 or 1 to 100 and also write down what kind of pain you are having. Over time you might pickup on patterns and that in turn will make it possible to prevent certain things and cause you pain. I found by doing this over the last couple years it has helped me in a few ways, you might want to think about giving it a shot.


And I also wanted to point this out going back to your last post I wouldn’t even ponder the idea of switching if part of that change would be able to drink again which would only hurt your recovery. So that is a huge plus to stay on suboxone for you, is because you cant drink on it. I mean what it comes down to is your pain if you feel you can live a life that you like and enjoy with the meds you are on now than dont even ponder the swtich but if you really dont things will ever get better than maybe think about it but for now just stick with were you are at.


Alright so a lil update I had a meeting with my counselor and the DR today about how things are going and were we see my dose ending up. We increased me to 145mg today and we will not be going any higher than 150 but to stay on 145 for the next 2 months before a possible increase to 150 if needed which is the very very last option. But i think 145 will be enough because 140 was holding me up pretty good the mornings are still a lil hard but with this extra 5 I think it should be good now. And I can’t tell you the weight this has lifted off my shoulders now I know my dose and we can actually start my recovery now with methadone. Ya know it is no longer the focus of getting me stable but now it is the focus of my actual issues with drug addiction. And now that we know my dose I also hope maybe we could start talking about take homes sooner of later because next week will be 90 days at the clinic with no dirty UAs, no no shows for 1 on 1 and attended all groups and participated in group. So things are going real well right now so I will keep you guys updated and also going to start thinking about ways to share my experience with suboxone properly.


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 Post subject: LMAO>>>
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:40 pm 
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dude, i read your first couple posts, where you were talking about how you would never go above 90mg, blah blah.....everyone, in the waiting room of the "hood" clinic looks zombie-fied over 100mg. also, you spoke with a nurse and she agreed with you- how stupid it is to be on 200 mg bc methadone stays in your system so long. its un- necessary

You wrote all this shit on the first page. I went to log in and respond.. and now read the tail end of the 3rd?!!! you are on 150?! ya hypocrite! :shock: let me start by saying, methadone kills pain for up to 6 hrs. you are dose dumping in the methadone line once daily. i think your telling yourself its not that bad, in this poor methadone clinic in the hood. where you have to go every fricken day too!takehomes, ua, nastypeople on and on. those places make so much money and you think you are getting the best deal! i've been to several, i know. keep tellin yourself it's fun and your councilors are genius' -and the dr really cares too....yeah

ok, a pain management dr or nurse pract. can write anything. all that mumbo jumbo u were talking about- they might lose their dea # bs blah blah... i take methadone, go to a nice, rich, not-in-the-hood dr and get 40mgs/every 6 hrs. now that helps with my pain along with a couple other things. i have a broken back too. my advice to you is demonstrate (only if you have to) to a pain management dr that you do not abuse if they see junkie? in bupe. kinda hard to abuse on methadone, right. switch from that nasty clinic and go to the real deal! see an anesthesiologist. stop lying to yourself about how cool that clinic is. i don't believe you.


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 Post subject: i havent read
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:56 pm 
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every single post- but, living hell will be coming off 150mg of done.....you will need pain dr anyway. if you ever have to have surgery or something else major happens in life-and it will! you will need to be monitered with an easier route to get off that much done. like, take a fentanyl patch and decrease the done and up the patch. even that way it takes a good year.......i can tell you are young. if you really are in this much pain go to a pain dr- your life will be 1000times better. what if you ever need injections? whose gonna give you those? that wonder doc at that nasty ass clinic in the hood. nobody has any teeth and all they do is talk past drug shit. they wait in the frigide cold with their boxes till the door opens to go get their dose. thats no way to live. im telling you there are a million dr out there. look.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:13 pm 
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lol not even going to waste my time replying to that i dont care if you talk shit about me or how i went about my treatment but to go as far as you did and talk shit about people you dont even know is just sad buddy.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:43 pm 
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im trying to help you. just giving advise from someone who 'knows' (for lack of a better word)- but you did say all that shit. also, you have a chip on your shoulder. your dose going higher is probably active addiction as you said. im just sayin, if you are in pain, pain management shouldn't care if you have had a 'history' or been on bupe....that's all i was getting at- try pain management


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 Post subject: did i
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mention methadone only kills pain for 6hrs. that is why if one needs methadone for pain, a clinic is not the best choice- for obvious reasons....i dont buy it if someone were to say: methadone kills my pain for 30 hours. it might keep your wd symptoms at bay but is not effective for legit pain killing....just sayin...when you get take homes, try splitting the dose up over the day, now that is pain control.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:46 am 
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hey indigo". what's up dood. long time no see that but smoker!! :lol: my freind al". got a bad blood level and his doc cut him off suboxone. he's been on it for 1 1/2 years 16mgs. he keeps calling me". telling me that he only needs a couple.and i say no.no.no. i'm not going in to that!! i tpld him to go to the meth clinic on putney rd. and he said'. i'm not going back to that fucking meth clinic" i hate methadone and im not going through that again.
i tried to tell him that maybe the meth is better. he said am i out of my f'.n mind. i wished i could help him. i tried to tell him about the w/d months ago but he would not open up his ear's. boy'. now him being cut off at 16mg he don't now what he's in for. i sure soon he will have no choice but go to the meth clinic. i hope he stops calling me, and don't show up at my door step.
if i give him 1 or 2 strips, that would only make him come back for more?


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 Post subject: hell if i know
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:05 pm 
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johnboy wrote:
hey indigo". what's up dood. long time no see that but smoker!! :lol: my freind al". got a bad blood level and his doc cut him off suboxone. he's been on it for 1 1/2 years 16mgs. he keeps calling me". telling me that he only needs a couple.and i say no.no.no. i'm not going in to that!! i tpld him to go to the meth clinic on putney rd. and he said'. i'm not going back to that fucking meth clinic" i hate methadone and im not going through that again.
i tried to tell him that maybe the meth is better. he said am i out of my f'.n mind. i wished i could help him. i tried to tell him about the w/d months ago but he would not open up his ear's. boy'. now him being cut off at 16mg he don't now what he's in for. i sure soon he will have no choice but go to the meth clinic. i hope he stops calling me, and don't show up at my door step.
if i give him 1 or 2 strips, that would only make him come back for more?


i don't know how your friend is....but make sure he knows he needs to taper or he will have wds. period. i've never heard of a bad blood level you speak of but it all sounds fishy. he should follow his docs orders and its illegal for you to give him yer medicine but people do it anyway....we are getting of topic with this post and hi jacking dudes thread


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 Post subject: Re: hell if i know
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:31 pm 
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indigochild wrote:
its illegal for you to give him yer medicine but people do it anyway


Agreed, this is diversion and it can be a huge problem for the whole sub office-based treatment. But from reading johnboy's post, it seemed clear to me that although his friend ASKED him for suboxone, johnboy said NO and did NOT give him any.

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