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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:30 am 
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Thanks amber I'm glad I kept this thread going to, I feel that I have just maybe changed some people's outlook on methadone and it's not this terrible thing that I once thought it was. When I first started here the majority including myself had not to many good things to say. Social situations use to be something I was always good with, if you asked people who knew me in my using days I was the life of the party. Butnow in social situations like you I'm now the outsider looking in which is very difficult. But I'm trying to change this as I work with making sober friends that I can surround myself with. A lot easier said than done.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:33 pm 
Bboy, their is a forum just as active as this with mostly mdone patients. If u wanna know it let me know i can pm it to u.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:48 am 
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nemesis wrote:
Bboy, their is a forum just as active as this with mostly mdone patients. If u wanna know it let me know i can pm it to u.


Thanks for the heads up I'll shoot you a pmwhen I get a chance.

Good news I think?

I saw my counselor at the clinic today and I don't if I'm reading him wrong. But it seems like he is starting to hint more and more about the next step up in getting more take homes. He's like your doing real good and with classes starting soon, work, other DR appointments we need to start thinking about how you will be able to keep up" and with how well your doing mayb it's time for me start some paper work. The last time he said paper work it was for my weekend take homes. But my six month treatment plan is also coming up so I don't know if he meant that paper work. I'll keep you updated and I'm praying with school starting it will make things much easier.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:10 pm 
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Ya know...Im happy for you. Really. Whatever works. But Methadone is a full agonist as you know. So this great feeling is simply all the receptors getting saturated in opiates again.

But there are alot of myths about suboxone. It is shitty at helping pain management, it can get you high (especially at low doses injected), it does have alot of drawbacks

But one of the few good rhnigs is its a lesser evil ya know? It's beer compared to bacardi 151proof. Thats how I see it anyway. Anyway...glad you're doing good Keep it up.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:31 pm 
Hi Bb, i stumbled upon this older post. I know there is like 8 pages here. haha, but unfortuantely i only read your original post and maybe the next 3 or 4 responses. You seemed quite content w/ the start of your methadone treatment. And it seemed to work well on pain. Thats great, it is also what i have heard from several people, concerning its effectivness in pain management.

It looks like it has been a little over a year since you have been on your maintanence plan. How are you doing and how do you feel? I'm curious because at one point i was seriously considering trying to quit suboxone by going to a methadone clinic for a couple/few months. I was desperate and really wanted to try anything that woudl get me off suboxone. Would you say this could be a possible means of getting off bupe? Also, how is your mood on methadone compared to suboxone? I'm real glad i found this post because it is rare you find someone that can tell you exactly how both methadone and suboxone are alike and differant from each other. Are you happy being on methadone?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:10 am 
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Whateveryouwant wrote:
Ya know...Im happy for you. Really. Whatever works. But Methadone is a full agonist as you know. So this great feeling is simply all the receptors getting saturated in opiates again.

But there are alot of myths about suboxone. It is shitty at helping pain management, it can get you high (especially at low doses injected), it does have alot of drawbacks

But one of the few good rhnigs is its a lesser evil ya know? It's beer compared to bacardi 151proof. Thats how I see it anyway. Anyway...glad you're doing good Keep it up.


Hey thanks for posting I can understand why you would think that. But you should really read my whole thread to better understand why I feel so truly happy. I spent 4 years on suboxone in pain every day so once I started methadone I was no longer in pain hence why I'm so truly happy. This feeling you are talking about is me being happy and not in pain for first time in for ever. Trust me I know methadone is a full agonist and suboxone is a partial but I don't feel any different on mdone than I felt on suboxone. The whole myth that methadone gets you high is far from true it's just like suboxone. If your tolerance is low than sure it will get you high just like suboxone would but if take it every day you won't feel a thing. The only true difference is that theres no ceiling effect. So with methadone if you keep upping your dose you can produce a high.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:03 am 
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Winningduhepic wrote:
Hi Bb, i stumbled upon this older post. I know there is like 8 pages here. haha, but unfortuantely i only read your original post and maybe the next 3 or 4 responses. You seemed quite content w/ the start of your methadone treatment. And it seemed to work well on pain. Thats great, it is also what i have heard from several people, concerning its effectivness in pain management.

It looks like it has been a little over a year since you have been on your maintanence plan. How are you doing and how do you feel? I'm curious because at one point i was seriously considering trying to quit suboxone by going to a methadone clinic for a couple/few months. I was desperate and really wanted to try anything that woudl get me off suboxone. Would you say this could be a possible means of getting off bupe? Also, how is your mood on methadone compared to suboxone? I'm real glad i found this post because it is rare you find someone that can tell you exactly how both methadone and suboxone are alike and differant from each other. Are you happy being on methadone?


First and foremost I'm the happiest I've been in the last 12 years! Methadone gave me my life back I can be a productive member in society and get true pain relief without being high which was ultimate goal. I will try to answere everything without writing a essay but you should try and read all my post in this thread. It literally documents my whole time on methadone from start to current date I try and update as often as I can without being repetitive. As of how am I'm doing since the change I'm doing great. I am graduating from one of my treatment program tommorow, I am close to getting my associate degree, I have repaired all my family relationships I have found the love of my life and so much more that you can read about all in this thread. I feel great mentally and physically, on suboxone my pain was a 9 or 10 on methadone a 2 to 4 on really bad days which are rare since finding my final dose. Methadone has also improved my health significly because I was able to start my cardio exercises back up which in turn also helps my mental health which during my time on suboxone was a absolute mess I started suboxone on no mental health meds I finished suboxone on 5 mental health meds. Over this past year why on methadone I was able to truly work on my mental health I am now no longer on any mental health meds. Yes I think it could help get you off bupe in my eyes. My mood on suboxone I was a miserable jerk who hated all man kind or anyone that was happy around me. My mood on methadone is the closest thing to normal for me in a long time.

Like I said read the thread man, there is so much more detailed info in my posts about every topic you are asking about. Or pm me.

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 Post subject: Gotcha BBOY
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:50 am 
I went through your journal of sorts in your journey with methadone. I'll put it in the fewest words that i think sums it up best........ You are a methadone sucess story. Good for you and keep rockin on. Now, u said that may be a good idea to use methadone to get off bupe. Which i think would be an awesome idea accept im too far into my sub detox where i highly doubt i would be accepted or whould even want to be on another opiate at this point. It's just something people should think about if they are at the end of there rope in regards to quitting and staying off suboxone. Methadone as a taper to get off subs when u jump. That just makes sense. Anyone do this?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:46 pm 
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Yea i would not reccomend starting methadone if you are already deep into a detox. Would make no sense to add another opiate to the mix. Its hard enough to quit one as it is. But just to let u know i was detoxing on sub when i started at my clinic so im sure they would accept you if you explained what u r trying to do. In regards to being at the end of your rope yes methadone is a great tool to keep u off sub permaneitly.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:21 pm 
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Just need to vent a lil!

Every day walking into the clinic I get asked if I want to buy benzos or if I can get benzos, I myself am strong enough to say no walk away and not think twice about it. But I am sick of seeing new patients get kicked out of the clinic because they keep failing there drug test. Not to mention one day I had to pick my mom up from the air port and I didn’t have time to go to drop her off so she came with me. Why I was inside one of these scumbags knocked on the window and asked her if she wanted to buy Kolonopin really these people have no respect for anyone including themselves. I want to say something but I am no snitch nor will I ever be one so I don’t know what to do but vent to you guys about it. I mean the clinic is suppose to be a safe place where you don’t have to think about using or getting high but these people are making it the complete opposite for everyone. And it is always the same people doing this who are also members of the clinic I should mention. I don’t know how they pass there drug test but I have a good idea, most likely buying urine from the people at the clinic who are doing the program the right way so the urine has methadone in it but no benzos. I mean the clinic has 5 security guards working during dosing hours every day so how are they not seeing this happen???? What would you do if you were in my shoes? Just keep your mouth shut and try not to think about it? It’s just so hard to watch these people ruin another person’s recovery who is weak as it is just starting the program trying to kick there DOC. I mean I sold drugs for 10 years and never in my right mind would I pray on people outside a rehab or in my case methadone clinic. Please let me know your thoughts on all of this.


Moving on a quick update
I am now a graduate of my chemical dependency program outside of the clinic and man it feels so good to know I finished a program the right way for the first time in my life. Only took 7 tries but I’m def in a much better spot in my life now which def helped. My parents/girlfriend took me out to a nice dinner last night and it was the best feeling to see how proud they were of me. And I talked to the program director at the program I was in, she said that she is going to have me come in and speak in some of the groups they run. This has always been my dream and one of the main reasons I am studying to become a counselor, is to speak in front of large groups about addiction so I’m really stoked about this.

I also wanted to toss this in my post. Ok ever since I started taking opiates I have been a chocolate craving mad man. I always wondered what connection does chocolate and opiates have? I goggled it and got so many different answered so I don’t know which one to take serious. So do any of you know if there is a connection between the two?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:00 am 
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I wanted to bump this thread to maybe get some input on my most recent post.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:45 am 
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Bboy42287 wrote:
Just need to vent a lil!

Every day walking into the clinic I get asked if I want to buy benzos or if I can get benzos, I myself am strong enough to say no walk away and not think twice about it. But I am sick of seeing new patients get kicked out of the clinic because they keep failing there drug test. Not to mention one day I had to pick my mom up from the air port and I didn’t have time to go to drop her off so she came with me. Why I was inside one of these scumbags knocked on the window and asked her if she wanted to buy Kolonopin really these people have no respect for anyone including themselves. I want to say something but I am no snitch nor will I ever be one so I don’t know what to do but vent to you guys about it. I mean the clinic is suppose to be a safe place where you don’t have to think about using or getting high but these people are making it the complete opposite for everyone. And it is always the same people doing this who are also members of the clinic I should mention. I don’t know how they pass there drug test but I have a good idea, most likely buying urine from the people at the clinic who are doing the program the right way so the urine has methadone in it but no benzos. I mean the clinic has 5 security guards working during dosing hours every day so how are they not seeing this happen???? What would you do if you were in my shoes? Just keep your mouth shut and try not to think about it? It’s just so hard to watch these people ruin another person’s recovery who is weak as it is just starting the program trying to kick there DOC. I mean I sold drugs for 10 years and never in my right mind would I pray on people outside a rehab or in my case methadone clinic. Please let me know your thoughts on all of this.


Well Bboy, this is a tough situation. It's obvious that you have a lot of compassion for the people who are at the clinic and are really trying to get help. But the addicted people who are just there to score or to make money, they are still deep in active addiction, and it's a lot harder to feel compassion for them. Maybe they have crossed lines due to their illness that you never crossed, or maybe they were assholes from the start and addiction just made them worse, who can say? Nevertheless, they are sick people, and even though they are preying on others and not helping themselves, and their actions fill you with anger, they are still human beings suffering from the same illness we're all dealing with. Maybe a worse manifestation of that illness, maybe further progressed into their addiction than you or I ever went, and maybe also dealing with co-occuring disorders that complicate the hell out of trying to escape addiction. But they are still people, and they are probably suffering, and who knows if they'll ever break out of that hell? That in itself seems like punishment enough.

So what can you do? You are already doing a lot. You are using MMT the way it was meant to be used, and you are building a life. Even if you don't know it, you are setting an example for others. You are going to speak about addiction at the program you just graduated from, and you are studying to be a counselor. That's really big. You don't have to save the world bro! You just have to do what you can, and that's what you're doing.

You could reach out to the newcomers at your methadone clinic (if you want and if that's allowed) and offer your support. Do they have a mentoring program there? Is there some way you can share your story with the newbies? I don't know what it's like at your clinic, so if I'm totally off base here just let me know.

You said that you'll never be a snitch, and I get that. But I also think that protecting someone who is harming himself or others is kind of a murky area. People rely on the fact that no one wants to be a snitch, it helps them get away with shit. Maybe you could bring up your concerns about the activity outside the clinic with your counselor but in a general way, not naming names. I'm guessing the clinic already knows about it but either can't stop it or won't stop it. But who knows? Maybe they don't know. They're not out there, right? Maybe the security guards are a bunch of lazy bastards making minimum wage and they just don't care. I don't know. If I was in your situation I would probably bring it up to someone at the clinic or send an email about it and then try to let it go because what else can you really do, at least about the drug dealing and urine selling. Not much.

It's hard to have to see a messed up situation and feel helpless to change it. But the anger that arises from that, you have to find a way to process it and let it go. The anger you feel lets you know that something is wrong, but if you hang on to anger it just eats you up. Recognize that you feel that anger because you CARE. You care about yourself, and you care about others. And you are doing something about it, every day. You may not be able to fix the problems at the clinic, but you've helped other addicts through this forum and you'll help other addicts in the future by speaking about your recovery and by becoming a counselor. That, in my opinion, is more than good enough.

Quote:
Moving on a quick update
I am now a graduate of my chemical dependency program outside of the clinic and man it feels so good to know I finished a program the right way for the first time in my life. Only took 7 tries but I’m def in a much better spot in my life now which def helped. My parents/girlfriend took me out to a nice dinner last night and it was the best feeling to see how proud they were of me. And I talked to the program director at the program I was in, she said that she is going to have me come in and speak in some of the groups they run. This has always been my dream and one of the main reasons I am studying to become a counselor, is to speak in front of large groups about addiction so I’m really stoked about this.


This is awesome. You should be so proud of yourself. What's that old saying? Fall down six times, get up seven times? That's the important thing - never giving up. I'm happy for you that you're really starting to see that your dreams are within your reach.

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I also wanted to toss this in my post. Ok ever since I started taking opiates I have been a chocolate craving mad man. I always wondered what connection does chocolate and opiates have? I goggled it and got so many different answered so I don’t know which one to take serious. So do any of you know if there is a connection between the two?


Chocolate has a few chemicals in it that stimulate the production of endorphins...maybe that's why? Whatever, it's delicious!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:34 pm 
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[font=Comic Sans MS]Wow, Diary, you are certainly a tough act to follow. Everything that you said, could be applied to every area of so many peoples lives. You are so intelligent, and have go tsuch a way with words. I really admire that about you. You always take the time to write a well thought out post to someone who needs it, and truly appreciates it the way that Bboy and I, and so many other people on here do. Thank you for that.

Bboy, there really isn't a whole lot more that I was thinking that Diary didn't already say. Just that you really are doing it arent ya???? That is great news about completing your program for addiction counseling. I'd LOVE to do something like that. I'll PM you about that later though. Just from reading your posts alone, I'd say that you probably have a knack for talking to large groups of people like that. Add to that, the fact that you have come from where all of those people will be, and you have a recipe for great success with what you are doing with your career. Congratulations Bboy! I think that you are going to go far with it! The next Dr. Phil??? LOL...

And as far as the shady dealings going on in and around the clinic, Diary more than covered that too. If it didn't bother you, then I would wonder. But there unfortunately, is nothing that you can do about it, except tell someone inside, annonymously, and move on. Letting it get the best of you will serve no purpose. I know that you haven't let it get the best of you yet, but f you keep carrying it around, and dwelling on it every time you see it, it will only produce negative feelings, that are best not stirred up repeatedly. Hopefully your counselor was referring to paperwork regarding more takehomes, so that you don't have to be exposed to it so often at least.

You are doing a great thing with your life, and I have all the faith in the world that you will go far with this! Great Job, and keep up the good work![/font]

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:59 pm 
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BBOY-

Long time, I used to be travispnorton and we chatted quite a bit - not sure if you'd remember me, though? I know you're an extremely busy guy; though you still find time to help the newcomers here and educate them on Methadone and your far from ideal experiences with Buprenorphine! Anyway, TwinCitiesHardcore is my new handle...It allows me to remain somewhat more anonymous than my prior screen name which was, in fact, my full name; I've told a few people on an individual level who knew me back in the days of my old handle and wanted to bring you into the loop as we corresponded quite a bit about a year ago when I first joined the site.... You were one of the first people to genuinely welcome me and make me feel welcome on top of that...

Diary hit almost everything I would have to say...So, well done with that post, sister! I just want to reiterate that everyone has different motivations for getting involved with opioid replacement therapies and are clearly at different places in their ultimate journeys and hopefully an eventual sinking in that 'working the system,' and using other drugs (i.e.) benazodiazepines with the idea of potentiating Methadone might wake some of these folks up.... Anything you can do to bring it to light could be beneficial to you as well as them...Helping fellow addicts, not enabling them, is making sure they're called on their shit and not coddled and have their addict behavior ignored, thus creating no consequences for them... What I hear is that you are bothered, and rightfully so, because they are allowed to continue this behavior. It may very well be possible that they are legitimately prescribed benzo's, needed or not, though diversion is clearly a huge issue it sounds like, with a certain subsection of the clients at your clinic. I was in a similar situation when I first cleaned up...I was in a residential treatment center and a new client had smuggled in Klonopins as well as some opioids and was selling them to other facility clients. I've always had the I don’t and will never, never snitch mentality and it was really difficult for me to do but it was my recovery, which I so desperately wanted to be successful at, so I, as someone else suggested, in a general way approached a counselor I trusted and let him know what was going on...The client in question was specially/'randomly' tested and here Klonopin levels were extremely low considering she was supposed to take the med chronically on a daily basis. A test was then given to the other clients that I named as potential clients who were bragging about and blatantly buying the illicit medications, all of whom tested positive an were sent back into the detox portion of the facility for a few days each and the 'ringleader' was discharged from the program as she needed a higher level of care due to her behaviors. Everything worked out and luckily, I was able to not use the illicit benzo's...The disease of addiction is a potentially fatal one and having a sense of junkie loyalty and the streetwise attitude that 'snitches get stitches' or any of the other bullshit clichés and logic is counter productive bullshit. Did I want to 'narc?' Hell no, but in my early recovery, I found that doing the OPPOSITE of what I would have normally in my active addiction told myself to do actually helped me make some seriously good decisions. "Hey, Travis, do you want to get together with some of us guys in recovery and have an all afternoon picnic?" My first though and response to something like that would be to lie, or simply say I'd think about it and then not show up; Mr. passive aggressive, that's me! I try to force myself to do things to take me out of my junkie comfort zone that I developed and perfected over the course of many, many years of active addiction. Keep us updated as to the situation with these folks, not at the same place in recovery as you are!

Travis

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:56 pm 
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Sorry I am just replying, but thank you all so much for the replies they have really helped me! And of course I remember you twin cities. So after reading your post I felt comfortable enough to bring this topic up with my counselor and boy I feel like a thousand pound weight was lifted off my chest. I told him my concerns and come to find out this is something that has been brought too many councilors and nurses at the clinic. They are working many different angles to try and stop this but as we all know, we know what we are doing and will always find new ways around things while we are in active addiction. But all suspected of this starting in the next couple weeks will now have supervised urines at all times no excuses and if this continues to be a problem than they will start doing supervised urines for everyone. Also they are making the rules much for stiff for failed drug test. But that’s almost a double edge sword because I mean new patients are going to fail there first few drug test once in a while so I don’t know about this part of the new system. And for now on there will be a security guard outside in front of the clinic. And they have been talking with the Buffalo Police Department and the judges, and I guess now if caught selling drugs in a 2 block radius of the methadone clinic the charges will be harsher. And I also did ask if there is something we can do about reaching out to new patients. And I did this group myself called the “orientation group” but they changed that group to a mandatory 12 weeks instead of 8 weeks. And if you miss three orientation groups you are kicked out the clinic and have to start over meaning going back on the waiting list. But now in this group they will be making all the new patients well aware of the benzo problems outside the clinic and they will all be made well aware of the rules if caught. So I do feel better knowing they are aware of this and are working on new things to stop it. So we will see and my post about being a snitch I know that is being immature and that is something I need to grow out of we just live by that law on the streets for so long that you follow it. And I wont lie these are not the people you want on your bad side that are selling the benzos so that also played a role with that part of my post.

And thanks for all the kind words on graduating from my program.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:06 am 
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[font=Comic Sans MS]So weird, was just wondering how you were and where you disappeared to. LOL

Glad to hear that they are taking a proactive approach in this. It really did need to be addressed. You sound great and like things are going really really well for you. Keep uup the hard work and the dedication. You are such an inspiration to me to get off my butt and get going with school. I know that I want to start, I'm just not sure on all of the details.. I am not even sure that I know where to start. I'd like to do it all online if i can. That would be easier with Tyler and all....
Anyway....keep up the good work and we'll ttyl![/font]

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Goinstrong wrote:
[font=Comic Sans MS]So weird, was just wondering how you were and where you disappeared to. LOL

Glad to hear that they are taking a proactive approach in this. It really did need to be addressed. You sound great and like things are going really really well for you. Keep uup the hard work and the dedication. You are such an inspiration to me to get off my butt and get going with school. I know that I want to start, I'm just not sure on all of the details.. I am not even sure that I know where to start. I'd like to do it all online if i can. That would be easier with Tyler and all....
Anyway....keep up the good work and we'll ttyl![/font]


Hey K I just saw your message and responded all is well. Thanks for caring that really means a lot to me! Yea I'm trying to keep positive about the whole thing so I'm hoping all goes well with nabbing this problem in the butt. As of getting back in school feel free to message me if you have any questions. A lot of schools have online programs/classes so your best bet would be to start looking at local colleges and go from there. But pm if you need any help:)

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:55 pm 
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Happy to say as I drive up to the clinic today I see not one but two security guards standing outside the clinic. And I didn't have to walk through a cloud of smoke either because you can no longer smoke in front of the clinic. Change is good and I can't thank u guys enough for giving me help and support with this recent issue.

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Yes these drugs saved our life's. But does that mean we have to give the rest of our life to these drugs?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:57 am 
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[font=Comic Sans MS]Wow, that is good news! I'm glad to hear that they are taking a proactive approach on this. That really is just awesome.
How is school going? How s everything going now that you are out of the program? Are you stil doing the orientation group
at your clinic? I'd love an update....[/font]

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:27 am 
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Goinstrong wrote:
[font=Comic Sans MS]Wow, that is good news! I'm glad to hear that they are taking a proactive approach on this. That really is just awesome.
How is school going? How s everything going now that you are out of the program? Are you stil doing the orientation group
at your clinic? I'd love an update....[/font]



Hey Kelly how's it going?

School is going good got my first string of test tomm so keeping my head filled with positive thoughts, optimism is key. I'm doing real well now that I'm finished with my program. It's a good feeling knowing I'm doing fine without seeing two counselors now. Oh I've been done with the orientation group for a long time! But I do have great news starting the new year I will start getting week day take homes and I'm thrilled with that. My pain is not even a every day thought anymore now that I have taken control of my automatic thoughts! I'm truly in the best place in my recovery that I've ever been. Now if I could get school done with find a decent job I'm on my way to living a happy healthy life style. My future plans do also have the hope of getting my operations done too.

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Yes these drugs saved our life's. But does that mean we have to give the rest of our life to these drugs?


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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