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 Post subject: Switch to subtext?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:43 pm 
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Ok so i have tried this 3 times from pill to film but the side effects are so bad I can't seem to stay with the suboxone and I stop taking and start taking again. I have asked my dr if I could try subutex and and see if that works better since that has been what others have advised to try and do. So i asked she said "no, I'd have to be pregnant." Not sure why, but can i just say I am and see if I can get some? I just want to kick this shit and be done with this roller coaster. Im only 26 and I don't want this to be my life. I never took anything till 24 after my sons birth and I just want my life back. It's so disheartening how the doctors play around with people's lives and are so unsympathetic. I feel like im drowning and I just want this part of my life over with. Has anyone had better luck with suburb or is it just going to be the same? I'm wanting to only take for a week and detox and then be done. I really don't want to become dependent on this and my real goal is to get off anti depressants. I know one step at a time but that's one of my long turn goals. I know pretty sad to most that being off medication would be a goal which is why I'm here because no one to really talk to and let my guard down without feeling judged. Thanks for listening.


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 Post subject: Re: Switch to subtext?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:26 pm 
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Are you having a hard time starting suboxone from your drug of choice (pills)? Or are you having a hard time switching from suboxone pills to suboxone film? Just want to make sure I understand this correctly.

If you're having trouble inducing on suboxone from pills (DOC), due the side effects, my bet is that the dose is too strong for you. Can you tell us how much suboxone you take when you try to switch? Also, what you were taking before, when on pills..? And lastly, what bad side effects are you having?

Also: How long are you waiting between last pill dose and first suboxone dose?


Last edited by tinydancer on Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Switch to subtext?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:36 pm 
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Hi Bunny,

I'm sorry you are having trouble. Unfortunately I don't think you are going to be able to lie about being pregnant to get subutex. The reason doctors won't prescribe that particular form of buprenorphine is because it doesn't contain the naloxone which is put into suboxone to keep people from abusing it intraveniously. Honestly, unless you are having a reaction to the naloxone in the subs you will probably feel the same on subutex as you do the suboxone. I have heard of people having reactions to naloxone, but it's not very common.

What side effects are you having and what dose are you trying to induct at? We might be able to help you get leveled out if you can share that info with us.

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 Post subject: Re: Switch to subtext?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:19 am 
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I had waited about 40 hours before I started the suboxone from my last does of oxy. It's the side effects, I mean it takes away a ton of withdrawal which is great but on the same hand I have a new set. I'm taking a real low dose, my dr prescribed 8mg film 2 x a day but I cut strips into 1/8 and and then I tried half of that wait hour didn't take away so I took other half of 1/8 th and got relief it's just the head aches that won't go away and if I look down for even a minute I get so light headed. I don't know I'm trying again and I really hope I can kick this I have been almost 3 days with out and I know that is the hardest part. Thank for the vent!


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 Post subject: Re: Switch to subtext?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:51 am 
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We've had many people over the years complain of headaches while on Suboxone. Some people get lucky and the headaches go away after a few days as their body gets used to Suboxone. Some people spit out their saliva instead of swallowing because the Naloxone in Suboxone isn't absorbed well by mucus membranes, but it is absorbed pretty well in the stomach. You could try spitting out your saliva (or Subliva as one member calls it. lol) and see how that works.

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 Post subject: Re: Switch to subtext?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:37 pm 
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Romeo pretty well hit the nail on the head. All I want to add is if you only want to be on it for a short time then maybe a rehab facility would be your best shot. A lot of them are now using Suboxone to wean a person down from their DOC. (drug of choice) Start calling and ask questions. Unless of course you just can't afford the prices.

You won't get Subutex, plain and simple. Well, that is unless you are planning to have a child then you'll get it once you're pregnant.

I know it sucks and doesn't make a lot of sense. But those are the rules the doctors are told to obey. Someday it may change. I sure hope so. The headaches are a very common complaint. See above post.

My suggestion is to wait a week or two and see if your body adjusts to the medication by itself. If it does, then you can begin a taper and recovery plan. Please make sure you do have a recovery plan in place before weaning down or you might just end up back on opiates. Most everyone does who tries it by themselves.

Keep us posted.

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 Post subject: Re: Switch to subtext?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:29 am 
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Hello and welcome!

I'm so sorry you're getting headaches. Headaches are not easily ignored. They can sometimes make you throw up, dizzy, and just all around sick feeling. I can completely understand why you wouldn't want to deal with it.

Have you thought about switching doctors? Some doctors do understand and are sympathetic. It's known that Subutex doesn't have Naloxone, and that some people are allergic to Naloxone.

Like the above posters suggested, you can try spitting your saliva, or whatever else Romeo suggested. I didn't have those issues so I can't remember.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!


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 Post subject: Re: Switch to subtext?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:36 pm 
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There is not a rule that only pregnant or breastfeeding women can get Subutex. I have a couple taking it for financial reasons, significant savings for the cash patient. PAX


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 Post subject: Re: Switch to subtext?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:40 pm 
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Thanks DOCM,

It is nice to hear it from a doctor. What exactly is Subutex prescribed for? And why is it that the majority of doctors say the same thing about being pregnant to get it? The more we know the better this forum gets.

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Switch to subtext?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:55 pm 
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The way I understand it, it has to do with RB's patents expiring. When the patent on subutex expired, they came out with suboxone, claiming it was better for treatment because it was less likely to be abused due the the added ingredient naloxone. This was really to avoid the competition of generics coming out. I believe RB (and maybe the FDA?) put pressure on doctors to switch the standard treatment to suboxone. They had to keep prescribing subutex for pregnant women though, due to the lack of knowledge and testing on naloxone. The same thing then happened when the patent for the tabs expired, we all got switched to films.

So there might not be an official law or rule, but there might as well be one because it's pretty tough to find a doctor to who will prescribe subutex. :roll:

This is what I've gathered over time but I don't know if it's the entire picture. Maybe docm can clarify.


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 Post subject: Re: Switch to subtext?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:13 pm 
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I think Tiny Dancer is right. There is no official rule, but some act like there is. I had been a sub provider 7 months before I met the RB rep. By then I had done a fair amount of reading and studying. I was at the ASIPP meeting (American Society of Interventional Pain Physicians) attending their opiate course. During Q and A I mentioned that Suboxone could be abused intravenously. They scoffed and mocked me, even when I brought in the step by step instructions from Blue Light the next day. Most were incredulous that a sight like blue light existed. (bunch of ostriches, but these were pain docs, not addictionologists). The patients that I give subutex to are stable, on Suboxone for 6 months, in a relationship, employed. They have a LOT to lose by screwing up and diverting their meds. Some insurances and Medicaid won't cover it, Suboxone only. Lots of misinformation and concerns of threats from the DEA and FDA about this.
When someone 'screws up,' it is a chance for dialogue, more frequent UA's, appt. pill counts and we get back on track. I took to heart Dr. J's view on treating a chronic illness, working through the relapses when possible. I have had to refer a patient for inpatient treatment but their relapse included cocaine and meth as well as the oxys. PAX


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 Post subject: Re: Switch to subtext?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:25 am 
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DocM,

I am so happy you are here with us! I have the utmost respect for you and the way you choose to treat your patients. I only wish there were more doctors available who choose to do what is best for their patients instead of what is best for them and RB.

Most doctors in my area use the one strike and your out rule. One dirty UA and out you go. I don't get it, what does that solve? How is that going to help the patient?

You and Dr. J are part of the minority that really get it.

Q

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 Post subject: Re: Switch to subtext?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:10 am 
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I guess I've lucked out (let me knock on wood) my first visit with my doctor he explained how the program worked.. and asked me a ton of questions like do I have insurance and was I ever a iv user.. no and no.. he gave me a coupon for $50 bucks off the films and then asked me again if I ever was a iv user.. no never.. he said well since you don't have insurance I will prescribe you subutex because its cheaper..

he has definitely saved me tons of money.. but I actually prefer the films because you can cut the strips up and they dissolve really quick.. With the subutex I can only get them down to quarters and sometimes the break into little pieces everywhere and it becomes a waste.. when I first started taking subutex I would get really bad headaches but thay went away.. once in awhile ill get a headache if I take my dose and haven't ate nothing all day.. so I'm not sure you will see much of a difference headache wise..


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 Post subject: Re: Switch to subtext?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:57 pm 
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Thank you Marymm05 for posting about the headaches. A lot of us here thought it may be due to the Naloxone in Suboxone that caused them. Now we know it is the Buprenorphine and the body getting used to it. At least in your case it was.

Welcome here!

r

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