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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:36 pm 
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I had oral surgery today. First let me say, I'm on a very low dose of suboxone , 1mg/day or so. I've been trying so hard to get off completely, but as you may know its not the easiest thing to accomplish.

I've had surgery before and knew exactly what to expect. It was rather invasive and required some cutting, I knew the pain would be high and that I would need to take something for pain. I've been clean for 4 years and on suboxone the entire time. Hoping my oral surgeon would be somewhat educated on the med I listed it on my now taking med's list, reluctantly. I knew if I did that he would immediately think, "Oh here comes another addict trying to doctor shop for pills" even though it was not an elective procedure by any stretch.

As he sat in and went over what he was about to do he said "Oh we'll send home some regular strength Vic's to ease the pain." I asked him if he had read my chart? He shook his head no, WHAT? then I asked him if he understood what the medication I was on would require? Of course he dodged the question and said, well I can bump them up to ES but that's all we have around here, lol... Needless to say he tried to slip in the 500's on me, and I felt like some junkie pointing out our previous conversation. What bothers me most is the lack of understanding these doctors seem to have. Over and over I read on these forums where others go through the same thing. Honestly, if I wanted to get pills I would have pulled an old trick out of the bag and gotten exactly what I wanted. Yet in an attempt to do the right thing I receive the opposite of proper treatment.

Yes this was just a vent, and no the vicodin ES's did not even come close to working, even after stopping my meds for 2 days and being on a very low dose. I wonder, next time if I'm in the same boat, what shall one do to get proper treatment? seeing that honesty doesn't seem to be the right choice for the addict these days.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:43 pm 
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I'm sorry you went through that. Many of us have similar such stories and we've discussed the issue of acute pain control a lot on this forum. Have you read the article that's posted under the "Links" section about treating acute pain in sub/meth patients? It's from the NIH (a reputable org), is easy to read, and has tons (7 pages) of resources. Some of us have printed it out and given it to our surgeons/doctors. It discusses a few different ways to treat pain in people on sub. It also explains how untreated pain in recovering addicts is what puts the patient at risk of relapse, NOT getting appropriate meds. I believe there will always be doctors who feel we addicts don't even deserve pain meds - no matter how clear it is that there's objective pain.

Reckitt-Benckiser has done a piss-poor job of educating the medical community about their product. Unfortunately that leaves us to educate our doctors, and as you may know, some doctors aren't exactly open to that.

Check out that paper and perhaps print it out. At the very least it's good information for YOU to know.

I hope you're feeling OK after your procedure. Be sure to take some ibuprofen - it's great for oral pain.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:54 pm 
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wcdgemini, yup, many of us have been through this type of thing. I went through oral surgery too, actually, in July. It was a rushed thing because my old insurance was expiring, so I just had to get by w/o narcs afterward. My doc didn't know anything about Sub, and as I explained, I realized her face remained blank and confused, so I just eventually summed it up by saying "I'm allergic to narcotics". Thankfully, the pain wasn't as bad as I feared. Before that, in 2007, I was pregnant on Sub and reduced my dose to 3 mg. My OBGYN had never heard of it before, so (in his defense) he did his best to go and educate himself. I put him in touch with my Sub doctor, which also helped. Unfortunately, he consistently told me I would be able to endure the pain of a c-section and a tubal w/o pain meds, until less than 2 weeks before my surgery, when he changed his mind completely. He put me on the phone with the anesthesiologist, who told me my plan to take no pain meds was not good, especially since it was my third section. He said I HAD to leave the possibility open in case I needed narcotics. So, I had to wean in a handful of days and then jump. It was so hard on my body. My amniotic fluid actually dried up and I went into labor, which was because of the physical stress IMO. I wasn't due for another month. Then, it took a ton of pain meds to work at all. I felt like I was immune to them or something, and the pain was quite bad...way worse than my first two sections combined.

Hat, thank you so very much for that information. We all have to arm ourselves with information and not assume that the doctors will know what they're doing. I hope that changes someday soon.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:13 pm 
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Hi wcdgemini, my name is Queenie.

I know exactly how you feel. With Subs it's either "What is that?" or "Sure, I know what that is".

Things should not be like that. All doctors should know about Subs just like they know about other meds. It is getting a little better because I have had more drs & nurses saying they know what it is. That is not good enough!

I try to do my part when they say the don't know what it is, I describe it in as much a professional manner as possible so that we can be respected and not thought of as uneducated bums that just take drugs.

Don't let me get started.

Well, let's all try to educate everyone else as much as we can. Maybe someday it will be "Suboxone, oh sure I know what that is!"

Love Queenie


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:38 pm 
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I'm so sorry you just had the oh so typical experience of surgery with suboxone :-( It sucks. I hope this becomes less common over time or that they really figure it out but I think that might be another 5-10 years off before that becomes more common.

With that said, I have to say in my case, I mention sub and get the blank face. Then I have to mention my chronic pain condition which gets me yet another blank look..hahaha. I am sure they think I am full of crap because no one actually has pain when they haven't heard of the condition right? Can't be that they are uneducated and just don't know. It is always put back onto me. It is the same old story. Do they expect me to walk in there crying and blubbering or something? I mean.....I am a tough cookie. I don't cry for just about anything and it takes a hell of a lot of pain to do that. It doesn't mean I am not hurting though. Grrrrrr. Whatever.

Cherie

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Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:27 am 
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hope u r fine, cause its really frightening experience


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:01 pm 
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OK, so I have been living in a nightmare for the past 2 months. I've been on Suboxone for over 4 years and I have spine issues causing chronic pain--usual story--anyhoo-- I recently ruptured a disc in my L4/5 lumbar spine and this has been causing me acute pain down my left buttox and leg with numbness and tingling in my calf, foot and toes. The pain has been extremely bad and even with increasing my Sub dose and taking it every 6 hours, I can't get relief. I of course also take ibuprofen every 6 hours as well 600 mgs each dose.

I've been to 3 different doctors, a phsyiatrist, a spine surgeon & my primary care physician and all three would not help me with my acute pain. As soon as they hear Suboxone, they tell me to go somewhere else. It leaves people like myself who are having acute, debilitating pain between a rock and a hard place. Because Suboxone can only be prescribed by doctors who take a certain extra step and are licensed to prescribe it, all other doctors don't study about Suboxone so then you can't count on any doctors to help you with acute pain. I've been in terrible pain now for 6 weeks, can't sleep, can't sit, drive etc... And no doctor will help me!! The pain and injury in my low back has caused my blood pressure to raise and my low back disc herniation is not healing but getting worse daily because I can't get enough pain relief to allow my body to heal.

In desperation I went back again to my primary care physician who I have known for 7 years and that I really liked because she seemed non judgmental. My hope what that she would prescribe me something and then I can stop taking the suboxone. As soon as I asked her to help me with my acute pain, she wouldn't do it because I am on Suboxone. I even printed out the articles that are supposed to help doctors understand how to treat people with Acute pain that are on Suboxone and I also told her to call the doctor that prescribes it to me, my psychiatrist because she is willing to help all she can. NOPE!! My primary care physician was my last hope and I left her office feeling hopeless. She then sends me off to yet another doctor who is supposed to be a pain management specialist but yet again doesn't know anything about Suboxone! How can a pain management specialist not know about Suboxone?

I am so frustrated that I feel like I should start a lawsuit against these doctors for causing me harm by deciding not to help me. I am really hurt by all of this. I hate having to plead with doctors trying to convince them that I am in pain. My MRI shows the disk all on top of the nerve, but still, I get no help. If I can get off Suboxone, I will because I can't keep going through this horrible scenario every time I have acute pain episodes. In other posts there are suggestions that we patients try to educate the doctors on Suboxone however even when I bring them articles from medical resources, they do not want to read it because they don't want to admit that they don't know anything about Suboxone. They certainly don't want to hear about it from a patient who isn't a doctor. Again, between a rock and a hard place.

It is my opinion that Suboxone should never had been introduced into society unless all doctors could prescribe it and then by doing so all doctors would at least need to have the basic knowledge about how it works on patients. Without this, the way that Suboxone was introduced, we end up with patients taking a drug that doctors don't understand and this stigmatizes and makes the patient an outcast. I feel utterly alone here.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:18 pm 
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I'm reluctant to weigh in on this topic for being labeled the bad guy. Most of us got ourselves into this mess and now we have to endure the consequences. I too have had the same old same old. Just 2 days ago my Doctor threatened to drop me cause I had gained weight since my last 2 week ago visit. This was my Suboxone Doctor mind you, I am far from Obese and he had the never to threaten me like that cause I suppose he was having a bad day. I just started my Suboxone treatment because my old Pain Doctor prescribed Methadone, no matter what I told him that I did Not want to take it he said that is what I am prescribing you can go somewhere else if you prefer. I had no health insurance and he was the only Doctor that i found that would see me without Insurance. I even got dropped from my old Pain Management Clinic because I lost my health Insurance too. So I know what it is like to feel mis-treated and have the system abuse me.
We as Voters have allowed our Government to get involved in the Health Care business, they screw up everything they touch and hence here we are all with this sorry excuse for Health Care we have in the strongest, Country in the world. We deserve what we get because we have allowed it to happen. Neither the Democrats nor republicans actually care about individuals, they all see us as pawns to use to their best advantage. Patients now have to do what they have to do to get proper health care. They have to lie, and hold information just to actually get accepted as patients by Doctors.
I am so sorry that you are having these problems with your Orthodontist, you might should have considered keeping the Suboxone use to yourself and then guided him to a drug that would have worked. Obviously now we people that are on Suboxone HAVE to Take our Health into our own hands. We can Not expect a Doctor to actually be willing to help us with 100% care. You made the choice to quit and get clean but when a condition that pops up where you need some pain relief then maybe consider upping your Suboxone dose for a while. At this point it is up to You to do your research to see what Options that you have BEFORE you go into Any Doctors office. We can not Trust that any Doctor will know or care for that matter. Do what you have to do to get the Health Care that You deserve !


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:23 pm 
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Hello mbraaheidner and welcome. I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. I, too, live with chronic pain, so I can only imagine the level you are in.

Unfortunately, with suboxone being made as an addiction medication and not as a pain medication, you essentially have a choice.
You can stay on suboxone or you can go off it and go back to full agonists for better pain control...like methadone. Suboxone isn't meant to treat life-long chronic pain.

HOWEVER, be sure to read Dr. J's most recent blog post about treating chronic pain in sub patients. It's under Suboxone TalkZone (Top of each page). His presentation is a slide show, but it's worth your time to read and understand it if you want to properly medically advocate for yourself.

The bottom line though is we chronic pain patients on suboxone don't get 100% pain relief like full agonists and unfortunately some people don't get enough any relief and need something more than suboxone. You'll have to decide what you need and prioritize your recovery/remission vs your pain.

That's one way to look at it...

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-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:13 am 
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One day ata Time wrote:
We as Voters have allowed our Government to get involved in the Health Care business, they screw up everything they touch and hence here we are all with this sorry excuse for Health Care we have in the strongest, Country in the world. We deserve what we get because we have allowed it to happen. Neither the Democrats nor republicans actually care about individuals, they all see us as pawns to use to their best advantage. Patients now have to do what they have to do to get proper health care. They have to lie, and hold information just to actually get accepted as patients by Doctors.


You're suggesting the FDA should have no influence whatsoever on what drugs are safe to be consumed?

I don't mean to get political, but I live in a country with fantastic public health cover system that allows EVERY low income and disabled person to visit any bulk billing GP and addiction doctors at no cost to the individual. Suboxone costs $5 a day no matter what dose we are on, and for low income folk all other meds cost $5 or $6 a month. We get these privileges because our government is involved. Drug companies have in the past lobbied hard to undermine it, and failed. And our economy, and democracy, is doing just fine, arguably better than most of the "west".

This idea that a country falls to communism the moment they offer any comprehensive health care is ridiculous.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:03 pm 
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tearj3rker wrote:
One day ata Time wrote:
We as Voters have allowed our Government to get involved in the Health Care business, they screw up everything they touch and hence here we are all with this sorry excuse for Health Care we have in the strongest, Country in the world. We deserve what we get because we have allowed it to happen. Neither the Democrats nor republicans actually care about individuals, they all see us as pawns to use to their best advantage. Patients now have to do what they have to do to get proper health care. They have to lie, and hold information just to actually get accepted as patients by Doctors.


You're suggesting the FDA should have no influence whatsoever on what drugs are safe to be consumed?

I don't mean to get political, but I live in a country with fantastic public health cover system that allows EVERY low income and disabled person to visit any bulk billing GP and addiction doctors at no cost to the individual. Suboxone costs $5 a day no matter what dose we are on, and for low income folk all other meds cost $5 or $6 a month. We get these privileges because our government is involved. Drug companies have in the past lobbied hard to undermine it, and failed. And our economy, and democracy, is doing just fine, arguably better than most of the "west".

This idea that a country falls to communism the moment they offer any comprehensive health care is ridiculous.


In which country do you live? (Also, I very much agree with your last statement. As someone with serious pre-existing conditions, I am both frightened and frustrated at the discourse surrounding the healthcare law. But this isn't really the place to talk about that, so I'll stop here.)


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