It is currently Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:46 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:12 am 
Offline
New Poster
New Poster

Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:41 am
Posts: 3
Hi. I'm new here. My name is Pam. I've been on suboxone, 8mg once a day for 13 months. I thought I was doing really well, felt like I was ready to come off the subs and stay clean on my own, that is until last week. I just had a hip arthroscopy on Monday. My sub doctor had me stop taking the subs 5 days before and gave me ten 5mg percocet, take one twice a day, on the days leading up to the surgery to prevent withdrawals from the subs. I was supposed to stop the subs Wed and not take any percs until I felt withdrawals. Well, I knew I was getting the percs on Wed so I stopped taking the subs 2 days before that. As soon as I had the percocet in hand the anxiety started. I knew I needed help so I enlisted a friend to hold onto the prescription and I went to him twice a day for a percocet. The first morning I went to get one he jokingly said no and I threw a nutty. I flipped out, yelling and screaming, it was terrible. At that moment I knew I wasn't doing as well as I thought I had been over the past year and I knew I couldn't give up subs yet. The entire 5 days leading up to my surgery I felt like I was in withdrawals even with taking 2 percs a day. I don't think it was enough to cover the sub withdrawals but my doctor and councelor said it was all in my head. I used to take at least 120mg of whatever I could find every day, the 8mg of suboxone helped me to stop that, but how is 10mg of percocet supposed to stop the sub withdrawals? The math doesn't make sense, but maybe it was in my head. Anyway, surgery went well. I felt terrible the morning of and all the doctors and nurses at the hospital knew I was in withdrawals so they treated me well. Problem came when I woke from surgery. I was in complete agony. Crying, couldn't get comfortable. The nurses kept giving me more and more morphine, I asked how much they had given me so far and she said 20mg. I couldn't believe it. I felt little relief but told them to stop. They offered to have me stay at the hospital overnight to monitor my pain but I decided to just go home. The first day from surgery was hell. A lot of pain. The same friend monitored me with the presciptions I took home from the hospital but I really felt little relief. Luckily my surgery wasn't a major event and only 2 days after surgery I was up and walking around, the pain subsiding. My problem is I have to have my other hip done some day soon. I will not go through this again. Will not do the other surgery until I am off the subs. I really feel that even 7 days off of them they were still blocking the opiates. I got some relief but not enough. This is just my experience and I wanted to share. I'm not saying anything bad about subs. They have helped me a lot, saved my life really, I just won't go through another surgery until I am off them completely for a while. I know everybody is different but has anybody else had this same experience?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:15 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
Hi Pam and welcome to the forum. I appreciate you sharing your story with us. And I'm sorry to hear it didn't go that well for you. I honestly don't know that much about "normal" morphine doses, but when acute pain treatment is needed in sub patients, they're supposed to give you more than the "average" dose that they would give to opiate-naive patients. Do you know if the 20 mg they were giving you was more than the "average' dose? What about what they gave you to take home - was it the more than the "normal" dose? If not, then your surgeon(s)/doctor(s), unfortunately, didn't handle your pain relief treatment correctly for you being a sub patient. That said, it's not that unusual.

I had a minor procedure last year and afterward all they gave me were vic's and I took about twice the prescribed dose in order to get pain relief, which did hold me over until my pain subsided, about 3 days later.

Oh, and the withdrawals you were feeling after your procedure were probably NOT in your head. Suboxone is strong and likely raised your tolerance, so I do believe the amounts they gave you before and after your surgery was not enough to keep you out of w/d.

Under the "Links" section of the forum, the very first "sticky" post is a thread that has a link to an NIH article/paper about treating acute pain in patients on opiate replacement therapy. It's an extremely valuable paper that many of us have read ourselves and then actually shared with our doctors and/or surgeons before a procedure/surgery. So many in the medical field don't understand sub and what to do when they need to treat our pain and this paper actually gives them concrete options on how to do that. So if you really need to have that other procedure, this paper might actually help to make it a much better experience for you.

I think the fact that you found new insight into yourself and realized through having those percs that you might not be ready to go off sub now is impressive. Now you can have that in your mind and keep it as a consideration when you find yourself deciding when it's time for you to discontinue your sub treatment.

You are certainly not the first to have such a negative experience with a procedure while being on suboxone. (And yes, being off it for 7 days still isn't enough for sub to stop "blocking" the full agonists.) Again, thanks for sharing and welcome.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Thanks Hatmaker510
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:41 pm 
Offline
New Poster
New Poster

Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:41 am
Posts: 3
I appreciate your reply. I'm no doctor and don't really know average doses of morphine but I do know in the past if I had gone to the ER for pancreatic problems, which I've had for years, they would give about 1 or 2 mg of morphine, this was before my addiction and subs, and its probably what started my addiction. I wish I had known about the NIH pain management website earlier. My surgeon knew nothing about suboxone and relied solely on what my suboxone doctor told him and treated me as he said. I trusted my sub doctor to know what he was doing and not allow me to go into withdrawals or suffer any pain. Another problem I have encountered just today is that I took the last of my prescription of percocet this morning. I still have some tramadol left. The problem is I've been told and have read that tramadol and suboxone should not be mixed. If I stay on tramadol without subs I will have pain relief but will go into withdrawals. If I take subs I will prevent withdrawals but have no pain relief. I'm doing well, up and walking without crutches for short periods of time but have also been on the percocet for the past 5 days. I'm afraid come tomorrow morning I will be in withdrawals and the pain may be a lot worse. I really don't know what to do, its a holiday weekend, can't get a hold of my surgeon or sub doctor, and feel helpless. I wish I had thought of this yesterday. I'm getting mixed information online about mixing the two medications. I don't want to go into withdrawals again, don't feel like I need the opiates but definitely need something stronger than ibuprofen. Any advice?


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:07 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:43 am
Posts: 893
Location: AZ
Hi, I just wanted to let you know that I was on both Tramadol and Sob together for a few months and together they helped a good deal with my pain. I have never read anything about not taking them together so I am not sure about that. I had no problems with the 2 together. I hope you heal quickly and am sorry you have had to endure this.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:58 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
I have no personal experience mixing tramadol and suboxone, but I have heard of people mixing it safely. I've also heard that many people on suboxone actually do mix the two when extra pain meds are necessary. Did you do any kind of Google search on the subject? Maybe try that and you could get some more concrete answers.

Also, if you stay on the perc's, you may have noticed in that NIH paper that when on full agonists that don't quite keep you out of pain or withdrawals, that you CAN add a very small dose of Sub to the mix - like only 1-2 mg, and no more. I know a person that has done this with success and like I said, that NIH paper lists this as one of the options to treating acute pain in sub patients.

So you can always try adding a tiny bit of sub to your perc treatment. Good luck with it.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Thanks for the help
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:17 am 
Offline
New Poster
New Poster

Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:41 am
Posts: 3
I have done a google search and as I said I was getting mixed information. The information which came with the tramadol prescription says not to mix it with whatever is in the subs, starts with an N, sorry. I went to the pharmacist and after looking at me like I was just a druggie, she did answer my question and said they should not be mixed. But here you guys are saying its ok. I guess personal experience speaks louder but I'm still nervous about it. Withdrawals are starting. I'm going to fight it off as long as I can but if I really need to I'm just gonna start back up on the subs and talk to the doctor on Tuesday. I can live with the pain for a day if I have to. Thanks for the advice.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:53 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:43 am
Posts: 893
Location: AZ
The thing that starts with an N is naloxone and is not absorbed when sub is taken sublingually. You can absorb a little if you swallow your spit after your sub dissolves but if you spit you will not get naloxone in your system. The only reason it is added is to prevent people from shooting there sub and doesn't even really do that. There are a lot of misinformed people out there that think you absorb the naloxone, even in the medical field. I just wanted to let you know if that is the reason then it is a non issue. I hope you get your pain under control.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group