It is currently Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:35 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Surgery Friday
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:02 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:57 pm
Posts: 9
Can you have surgery while on suboxone? I have surgery Friday the 18th at 10 a.m. I have only taken 2 8mg tabs within 3 days. Broken up along the way. My last dose was tonight not a full 8mg tablet. I do not have to take anymore until after surgery. Also do you know what kind of medicine they are going to provide in liquid form? I am having tonsil surgery at 25 years old and hear it's painful. I also am addicted to morphine. Any info will be helpful. Thank you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: ...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:10 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:57 pm
Posts: 9
Not addicted to morphine I meant allergic..sorry..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:28 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:31 pm
Posts: 226
Location: Pennsylvania
Welcome! I am pretty sure that there a bunch of threads on this in the forums, but I will try to give you a quick summary. I am not a doctor! Just an addict, but almost 6 months on subs now.

I think Dr. J suggests to get to as low a dose of sub as possible. This is to minimize blocking effects from surgery meds and to increase the effectiveness for the post op meds they give you, and probably other reasons.
Basically, you want to make your tolerance relativley as low as you can (low dose sub) for a little bit before surgery by taking the low dose. Then I think some may even discontinue the subs for 3-5 days and give you some sort of full agonist med the week before your procedure (not all doctors will do this!!). If you are on full agonists, then you just go to surgury, take your post op stuff as supposed to and then continue sub after you go thru moderate w/d from no pain meds. But, if you stay on sub untill surgury, stop it 3 or 5 days (these are approx #'s) before the procedure. Take your post op stuff, then wait till in w/d and start sub again.

This is super brief, so any questions give a search, reply, or gimme shout......good luck!

_________________
"The past is finished. There is nothing to be gained by going over it. Whatever it gave us in the experiences it brought us was something we had to know."----Rebecca Beard

"Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." ---Salvador Dali


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject: Wow, can I relate!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:44 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 879
Location: Wisconsin
Holy Shit can I relate to this one. I don't want to get in the habit of "chiming in" on a whole bunch of threads like a "know it all." However, having gone through tonsil surgery at just about your same age, I can really relate. My advice to you would include a couple of things:

1. DO NOT take any more Sub from this point forward until you are out of pain. I don't want to scare you here but I clearly remember asking the nurse what it was going to feel like when I came out of surgery. I'll never forget her answer. "I'm not going to kid you," she said "It's going to feel like a Mac Truck hit you." Blunt, but true. Now while I have never been hit by a Mac Truck, I remember waking up and not being able to speak at all and some pretty solid pain. I'm really not trying to scare you. Not at all. My point in being so blunt is that you are going to need serious pain control and you do not want to have any Suboxone in your system to screw it up. Do not taking any more until you have recovered from surgery.

2. My second reason for being so blunt is this: YOU MUST talk with your doctor (I'm assuming Ear, Nose Throat, ENT) about your addiction and tolerance. You are very likely going to need much larger doses of medication. If you come clean, now, you are more likely to get at least closer to what you need. Very likely you should have two or three times typical dosing and likely twice as frequent as usual. In other words, if the doc usually gives 5 mg oxycodone every four hours, you likely will need 15mg (or more) every two hours. Unless he or she knows what is going on in your system, they are very unlikely to give you this. Tell them honestly about your tolerance. You have to get this worked out in advance or you'll end up suffering while your healthcare team tells you they can't give you any more.

3. DO NOT take any Sub until directed to by one of your doctors. If you do, it is going to knock whatever real pain medication they have given you off your system and you will be in huge pain. This is sort of the reverse of precipitated withdrawal. It likely won't throw you into withdrawal. What it will do is throw you into pain. You will likely have to be off of Suboxone for about a week.

Please don't hide any of this due to embarrassment. My pain lasted for well over a week. Any competent ENT already knows the huge amount of pain adults have with tonsil surgery. It's not at all like in kids. You are much better off with perhaps a little embarrassment now than uncontrolled pain later.

I hope all of this helps. I can also tell you that this whole thing brings back huge memories for me. I say that not at all just for the pain, but tonsil surgery was my very first introduction to opiates. Prior to this, I had never, ever had an opiate medication. Sadly, it is also where the switch in my head got flipped on and I became addicted. It is something I will never forget as I can even tell you where I was, what I was doing, etc. the moment that "feeling" was mapped into my brain. While it did take over ten years to become out of control, I took a pill here and there, amount three or four times a month, just for that same feeling. I don't know if everyone can pinpoint back to where "it" started for them, but I can assure you, for me it was the Saturday after surgery at about 11 AM, January 1990.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:44 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:31 pm
Posts: 226
Location: Pennsylvania
donh's reply was great. I totally agree with 1 and 2. I don't know what you mean by 3 though.

"3. DO NOT take any Sub until directed to by one of your doctors. If you do, it is going to knock whatever real pain medication they have given you off your system and you will be in huge pain. This is sort of the reverse of precipitated withdrawal. It likely won't throw you into withdrawal. What it will do is throw you into pain. You will likely have to be off of Suboxone for about a week. "

It is my understanding that precipitated withdrawal is exactly when buprenorphine (subox) does knock off whatever full agoinist they are taking, pain meds, heroin, methadone. That will of course give you great w/d pain AND increase your pain from the surgery greatly. But, that is precip w/d, when suboxone knocks off the pain meds/dope from body's receptors, for lack of better terms.

Every other part of donh's reply was flawless. Great information. Donh, I am not picking on you at all. Please don't think that, I just wanted to throw that in there. Thanks all, be well

_________________
"The past is finished. There is nothing to be gained by going over it. Whatever it gave us in the experiences it brought us was something we had to know."----Rebecca Beard

"Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." ---Salvador Dali


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:08 am 
Wow, it's so nice to have such well-informed people posting here. You guys don't know how much you're helping people by taking the time to respond. BigRed and donh, you both write so well and so clearly. Your responses above, in my opinion, are spot on.
Thank God, I didn't have to have a tonsillectomy as an adult, but being in the medical profession for many years, I do have some knowledge on such things. donh is right - it's a rough surgery for adults even though it seems like a breeze when your kids go through it. I'm hoping that hurting2424 got the advice soon enough to help because any doctor worth anything should have told him/her to get off that Sub a few days before going into sugery. If not, this could turn into a big ole cluster....
As far as the discussion about precipitated withdrawal...interesting. To me what donh describes in #3 is precipitated withdrawal. I guess it doesn't matter what you call it - it's a mess and you don't want to go there!
hurting2424 - I hope your surgery goes well and follow the advice given above. Discuss all with your doctors and take a family member or friend who knows your history along with you while in the hospital to advocate for your care. This is very iimportant. I have posted on other threads about my experiences as an RN about how to approach health care providers when you're an addict - what I've seen to work best. If you have time, read through some of the other threads here. But in a nutshell - Be Honest! Everyone will have much greater respect for you and your needs if you have told the truth from the beginning. Medical professionals HATE surprises. We want to give you the best care possible, but we can't when you don't tell us everything. Like Bigred and donh told you - you're going to need a lot more than the average dose of pain meds because your tolerance will be out of the ballpark. Nobody's gonna want to give you that much medicine without knowing your situation. So speak up! and All the best to you as you get through this! Let us know how it goes!
donh - Very insightful what you said about knowing when the trigger was tripped in your brain and your unhealthy relationship with opiates began. I've thought about that very thing so much. While I don't have a date or specific event to call to mind, I do remember the exact way I felt when that relationship was formed. Like you, prior to that time (I was in my early 40s) I had never had any problems with addictions or abuse of drugs at all. Interesting!
Hope everyone has a great weekend!


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Clearing Up #3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:27 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 879
Location: Wisconsin
Thanks for the compliments about my posts but I don't think that I did that good or clear of a job in the third point that I made. What I was trying to say is in precipitated withdrawal, the Sub will knock the "real" opiates out and throw you into withdrawal. That has to do with the much higher dose that the person likely was taking of the true opiates related to the Suboxone. Because the pain management dose will likely not be above "normal", the Suboxone is not likely to cause withdrawal symptoms but instead will stop the pain medication from working. Those of you who questioned this are very correct. I didn't word it very well at all. You guys are right though, the process really is the same. The only difference is the results. One will result in withdrawal symptoms while the other will result in pain. Either way, the same process is happening - the Suboxone is displacing the full opiates. Sorry for making that more confusing than I needed (or tried) to.

I hope we hear back from Hurting. So many people never come back to tell us how things turned out. Hopefully he will.

Finally, as for my addiction triggering experience, I can still tell you with complete detail everything about that morning 20 years ago now. While I had pain medication for about a week already, with no feelings of euphoria, that was to change on a Saturday morning. The difference may very well have been I took it on a very empty stomach. (more of the story is above in a different post) I had stopped to get a malt on the way home and was drinking it when the feelings started. For many years after that, my brain even equated having a malt with feeling high. It's the same as hearing a song or smelling something and having thoughts or feelings come back. For many years when I had a malt, I half expected the high feeling to come with it. That is just so amazing how your brain works. However, there is no doubt in my mind that is where my brain chemistry got changed or the switch was flicked on. That is the high I chased for many years. I've heard crack users tell of how they were hooked after their first hit. This seemed to be the same. Only for me, somehow, someway, I was able to hold it to once a week or less for nearly ten years! Of course that only served to convince me even more that I was in control of it all and it was not going to harm me. While it may have gone on longer than the "average person", once a week eventually became two or three times a week, followed by every other day, then once a day, then late afternoon and night and well you know the rest. Does this make me a case study? And all because I had to have my tonsils taken out. I never had opiates prescribed for, I'll bet, another ten years after that. Would I have been old enough to avoid all of this? Who knows and I guess it doesn't matter. Besides I'm way off the topic now anyhow.

Hurting's tonsils are likely removed by now. Hopefully he will stop back and tell us how it went. I hope he was able to get everything lined up in time.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Out of surgery.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:01 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:57 pm
Posts: 9
They didn't listen. I am in still a lot of pain but hopefully the medicine will work. I pray that it does!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: At home.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:24 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:57 pm
Posts: 9
In bed, medicine is working so far. We shall see how tomorrow goes. Life is always a struggle but I know I will survive it. God goes before me and plans my steps. I have faith. Thank you to everyone who wrote me, it meant a lot to me. :D


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject: What did they give you?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:50 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 879
Location: Wisconsin
I'm glad to hear that you are doing pretty well. Also happy to report, that unlike say withdrawals, which often get worse day by day until they get better, the pain from tonsil surgery has already been at its worst and will only lesson from here on out. I'm curious what they ended up providing to you for the pain? If you don't mind sharing it will be nice to tuck away in the back of my memory for the next person that might need the information.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:12 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:31 pm
Posts: 226
Location: Pennsylvania
Thank You setmefree!! I just try to share what I have experienced hoping someone or many can benefit. You have been been great at leaving detailed and clear replies also. I always find me reading and learning or relating from you and many others.

Donh, I was not at all picking on you and I kinda figured that is what you meant. You too have great info to share!

Hurting, it sucks that you had to be in pain just because your tolerance is high. I can see that you will be ok in time just by your attitude. You need to be positive like you are to get past some of these harder times. I do not know much about that procedure you went through, so can't really comment. Except, dont you get to eat a bunch of ice cream?!? Cool! I do even with out surgery...lol

I'm also curious what meds did you get? During and post op.

Hang in there!

_________________
"The past is finished. There is nothing to be gained by going over it. Whatever it gave us in the experiences it brought us was something we had to know."----Rebecca Beard

"Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." ---Salvador Dali


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Back in the hospital
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:04 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:57 pm
Posts: 9
They admitted me back into the hospital tonight. I'm too swollen to eat or drink even water. They gave me dilaudid and liquid hydrocodone after. Now they are pushing fluids through me and my doctor is determined to find me some sort of pain relief. Thank goodness. Maybe I'm just a big baby because I'm a girl. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:42 am 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:31 pm
Posts: 226
Location: Pennsylvania
I am glad that they are working with you to help find pain relief. It does suck you had to go back into the hospital, but you ain't being a baby....if you are in pain, you deserve relief! Those meds should help hopefully, it seems that they are anyway. Good to hear you are doing better and everything seems to be working out for you. Good Luck and Take Care!!

_________________
"The past is finished. There is nothing to be gained by going over it. Whatever it gave us in the experiences it brought us was something we had to know."----Rebecca Beard

"Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." ---Salvador Dali


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject: Out
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:29 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:57 pm
Posts: 9
They let me out of the hospital only cause my husband told them I wanted to be home for Christmas. My doctor thinks I'll be back. He thinks the 50mg of demoral and 2 10mg of vicodin every 4 hours at the hospital will be my only hope. I think he's right I'll be back in the hospital. :( Sucks worst surgery I have every had!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Out
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:29 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:57 pm
Posts: 9
They let me out of the hospital only cause my husband told them I wanted to be home for Christmas. My doctor thinks I'll be back. He thinks the 50mg of demoral and 2 10mg of vicodin every 4 hours at the hospital will be my only hope. I think he's right I'll be back in the hospital. :( Sucks worst surgery I have every had!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Out
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:29 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:57 pm
Posts: 9
They let me out of the hospital only cause my husband told them I wanted to be home for Christmas. My doctor thinks I'll be back. He thinks the 50mg of demoral and 2 10mg of vicodin every 4 hours at the hospital will be my only hope. I think he's right I'll be back in the hospital. :( Sucks worst surgery I have every had!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Out
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:30 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:57 pm
Posts: 9
They let me out of the hospital only cause my husband told them I wanted to be home for Christmas. My doctor thinks I'll be back. He thinks the 50mg of demoral and 2 10mg of vicodin every 4 hours at the hospital will be my only hope. I think he's right I'll be back in the hospital. :( Sucks worst surgery I have every had!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:17 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:29 am
Posts: 246
Thanks for the update! Keep up the positive attitude. I am so glad 'something helped you pain'... I just hope they find something for the swelling!

Maybe you'll get a Christmas present and get to be home for Christmas and get better! Praying for you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:13 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:31 pm
Posts: 226
Location: Pennsylvania
Awe! I am sorry you have to be in pain and christmas right around the corner.... That totally sucks! I wish I can say I know how you feel, but I never had that surgery so I cannot tell you I know how you feel. I do have chronic pain every day and some times I am unable to do anything because it hurts so much and I want to scream. I can say I know what it is like to be in pain, and it is never fun. I hope you do not have to go back into the hospital, but even if you do hang in there!!! You can do it, just 'think past the pain', if that makes any sense what-so-ever to you. Truely, good luck and take care! We are thinking about you

_________________
"The past is finished. There is nothing to be gained by going over it. Whatever it gave us in the experiences it brought us was something we had to know."----Rebecca Beard

"Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." ---Salvador Dali


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:09 pm 
Hi hurting. I'm sorry you're having such a rough time! I hope you get to make it at home through Christmas and further I hope that maybe you'll be turning the corner soon recovery-wise and won't have to go back to the hospital at all! I've always heard that tonsil surgery as an adult is hideous and I guess it's true, unfortunately for you. Just try to remember that the pain you are having (provided you've not had some sort of complication) is a "healing" pain if you will. Your throat has to form these yucky scabby things over the area where the tonsils were removed and once that's in place things should start to feel better. This is temporary! Being an addict I know you've suffered with pain before, but this is different - it will end!
Keep praying for the comfort and healing that only God can bring. You will be all right! And please keep posting your experiences. It is helpful to us all!


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group