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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 9:48 am 
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Hi, my name is Karen and I have been on/off this board for a few years. I have not looked at this board for a good year since my last commitment to finally take the plunge to lower my suboxone does below 1mg. I will not bore people with the drama of before 1mg, just note I was one of those folk's with God's grace to lower my dose to 1mg but then was stuck there for a few years. Every time I tried to go lower I would crash and burn quickly and take my comfort dose as soon as I felt too bad putting me right back where I was before at 1mg. Fast forward now another year (back on this board) and I was able (again by God's grace) to get myself to what I think is around .6mg. Not perfect (maybe alittle more, maybe alittle less). But that is what I calculate the dose to be about. To bring you up to speed, last Thursday I came down with one of the worse throat/larnyx infections I have had in years. I am the WORST with pain and this sickness pushed me over the edge to the first time I needed something to help with the pain where my normal dose of sub (at the time) plus advil wasnt enough. I couldnt drink water it was so bad and could barely breath. I finally broke down and took 2 Tylenol 3's that were left over from when my daughter was sick last winter. That was Sunday morning around 7:30am et. I continued taking 2 pills every 6 hours flat on my back for 4 days. I have gotten away with sometimes only taking 1 pill until I feel I need another one.

By God's grace my throat infection finally healed (I can swallow and drink water now) and feel the pain in my larynx has lifted. I would normally stop the Tylenol's now but obviously now in a position to either go back to the Sub (where I left off or lower if I can help it) or just try to finally do this.

I am so devasted by this last sickness. I couldnt sit up for almost 3 days it was so painful and couldnt help thinking the entire time this is my payback for being on sub for all these years. I always had that fear if anything serious ever happened what would I do with a drug that basically blocked pain killers when you may need them. This entire process scared me to death.

I NEVER want to go through that again. I also am convinced the sickness was largely if not 100% due to me being on Sub. I feel I have been getting sore throats routinely every few months for the last several years (nothing like this last week) but enough to warrant an antibiotic and the sub usually curbed the sting enough, but this last time was the worst.

I was tapering off of Sub for a reason. I find myself now not wanting to go back to that drug EVER.

I am hoping that the few days on the Tylenol 3's may help me (somewhat) transition over to the process of getting off completely. I want this last dose to be my last (I took another Tylenol 3 this morning around 7:00am ). I know many of you will say I did nothing but prolong this but I had no choice in my mind. I was not planning to taking an opiate after all the work getting down on sub but honestly I have been on this lower dose long enough. Yes I could go back and keep tapering but after a year and im still floating at .6 (I hate withdrawal feelings) I realize that I will have to just jump at some point. As much as i would have liked to keep tapering down to .25 or less I keep hovering at that dose.

This experience I will use to help me get away from sub. Atleast mentally, I feel better not taking it for this long. I know the half life in Sub is huge so its probably still on my receptors to a degree but atleast knowing I havent had anything under my tounge since last Sunday is refreshing.

Can anyone offer me hope that perhaps:
1) the fact I was down to a lower dose of .6 (ish) this last year can help me somewhat?
2) the fact I have now not taken sub since last Sunday (although on Tylenol 3's) I have not abused them, just kept them at the dose prescribed every 6 hours - do you think I have a chance when I stop these that the withdrawal will be more the Tylenol now?
3) even if not, I need to stop. I need all the encouragement. I pray I dont get sick again, just want to use this time to help myself do what I have so wanted to do for years.

Lastly, I recently lost my job after 10 years end of April. I am only saying this as I dont believe in coincidences. I have never been so sick I would need to miss work and this last sickness had me out for a good 4 days straight, if I was working that would have been insane. I have always told myself I can't deal with withdrawal as I have my work - cant afford to be sick and risk losing my job - well now I dont have an excuse if I do get sick. I tried to tell myself when I lost my job I need to be well (still giving myself excuse to hang on to the sub) so I can get my resume together and interview. But now that God had me laid out with this illness I have for first time in awhile inspired to just keep going. Going back to finding work still on Sub will ultimately always have the halo of "what is to come" when /if something happens again where I may get sick or what if I have to move? I am paying Cobra now too so I can't afford to keep this up paying 100o's of dollars (it is approx $1,000 a month) just to cover my daughter and I on Cobra. I feel if I am to get truly healthy and able to be the person God wants me to be for my daughter and future work, I need to get off this drug.

Sorry for the babble but would appreciate anyone who has gotten off this drug and perhaps had a similar experience to respond? I need encouragement, not dam sayers of how I made my situation worse. We all have to face the music at some point. I atleast mentally feel better all ready not having taken a sub since last Sunday. Although on Tylenol 3's isnt the solution it has given me a slight bridge into the first day of what I want to be the rest of my life (never going back to Sub or Tylenol 3's) for the wrong reasons.

I didnt take Tylenol 3 for the wrong reason and have plenty more in the bottle to carry me a day or so but I realize that my sickeness is better and this is where a "normal" person puts the narcotics down. I know I still have withdrawal to face but feel this is the best time to face it then any. The pain I experienced in my throat is still fresh in my mind so the withdrawals (swetty cold, sneezing, body aches) dont seem to horrible. Id rather have that then not being able to swallow or breath.

Thanks for listening.






M


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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 3:52 pm 
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I don't think you did any harm with the way you were taking the T 3's, you may have even subdued some of the sub wd you were facing?

It sounds like you want off Suboxone pretty badly and like you pretty much said, you need to stop making excuses and just do it. Will you face some wd, probably. Will the wd be bad, I highly doubt it. Will your addict mind tell you the wd is bad, probably. Are you going to listen to your addict mind.....that's up to you.

Bottom line, if you really want off, you'll endure the few days of discomfort. Not a single one of us here likes opiate wd, we all hate it with every fiber of our being, but many of us have chosen to stop Suboxone, deal with the wd and get on with life. You can too.

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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 4:10 pm 
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Thanks Romeo!!! I do choose to move closer to my goal, not further away. It is a fair statement indeed to say I am ready for a life of no more subs or going back to drug abuse of any kind. I will remind myself what you said above when /if those lies come in "this is too hard".


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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 7:23 pm 
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If you can, go see your doctor and get some Clonidine. Clonidine is a blood pressure medication that's prescribed off label for opiate wd. Clonidine is non-addictive and will knock your wd symptoms down a good peg or two. Clonidine is the only med I took during my wd that really helped. Many on this forum have taken Clonidine during wd and it has helped them through.

Keeping your mind and body busy during wd is key to minimizing the symptoms, as well. Put your favorite music on and dance around the house. Watch funny movies or TV shows. Exercise if you can. Get outdoors and move around. Gluing your ass to the couch is the best way to maximize your wd symptoms, so don't do it!!

Hot showers or baths will make you feel a lot better, too. Shower or bath 5 times a day if it makes you feel better.

I forgot to mention earlier, the fact that you've been on such a low dose for a good long time will usually mean your wd will be fairly weak. Wd is wd and it always sucks, but I'm guessing you'll have a weaker version of the suckishness. (Is that even a word? :) )

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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 8:55 pm 
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it's a word now! :-) LOL, absolutely right though. I've never tried coming off sub, and probably won't, but I've been through WD plenty of times, and Romeo is right on the money! :-)


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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 9:49 pm 
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i can 100% relate to your struggle. I bounced back and forth with my sub dose for years. All I would think about was lowering my dose all day long. I would have a nice month of getting my dose down low and then have one night when I felt I could take just a little more and BAM, right back on a higher dose. What I HAD to do eventually was give my subs over to someone in my family to dispense. If I didn't do that, I surely would have kept this cycle going on forever! unfortunately will power is almost never enough for an addict. No matter how badly i wanted off, eventually my addiction would come back and push that motivation to the side. If you ever end up back on subs, give them to someone close.

In terms of your withdrawal at this point, it should not be that bad at all. You were on a very low dose of subs and now you are taking a very weak opiate. Of course, i would never suggest taking an opiate to get off subs, but since its 3s and you are already doing it, I would suggest either stopping completely or tapering off. Once again, give them to someone you trust to dispense.

good luck and let us know how you are doing


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 12:57 pm 
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Hi everyone and thank you for your replies. Romeo your post was a Godsend as last night I kept thinking about what you said .."will the withdrawals be that bad, probably not", but "will your addict mind tell you that they are, sure"... I kept reminding myself the truth on these symptoms and convinced myself to not let that "lie" linger.

Thank you to all else who responded. I truly want to do this and keep going.

I woke up around 5:00am (ish) with restless "body" syndrom. I have never really understood "restless legs" but I can relate to nerves feeling like they are on fire all over my body. I tend to get it starting at base of neck all the way down to my toes. It centers more in my hips where I just can't lay still. I just need to stretch or move or my nerves feel like they are going to explode. I eventually just got up. It is now 30hrs since my last T3. YEAH!!

I took some advil (probably very constipated by now). I am feeling weak and dont have much an appetite.

I do have Clondine just never really used it before. I will trust your judgement if things get too rough today. I remember trying Clondine years ago and I woke up feeling very light headed and "weird" so never took it again. I just dont want to make myself more weak if I dont have too.

Thanks again folks. I hope to keep posting so you all can see my progress. I have not touched another sub and now hope the T3's are behind me too. :)


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 1:04 pm 
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I do want to re elaborate on my comment in my last post. My nerves last night were mild. I didnt want to scare anyone when I said "neves on fire". Usually that is how I would describe the symptoms when they are at their worse but last night it was more "slightly uncomfortable". Nothing horrid. I am I was trying not to expect anything but honestly just kept praying yesterday (crying alittle) and relying on the truth about those symptoms that they will not be so bad God can't get you through them.

I also did take a very hot bath this morning - it helped greatly and was able to nap even alittle later this morning. Then went for my walk.

I am feeling "heavy" this morning and weak so hopefully things will get better.


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 2:04 pm 
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Hey, hoping someone is on today. I have not had sub since last Sunday around 4:00am (ish). As stated above, I came down with a throat infection and I switched over to T3 (Tylenol 3's) for when my throat was really, really bad.

I have not had a sub since last week but I still cannot eat ANYTHING. I have lower back pain and wanted to know if this is normal for being so long off sub?

Today is day 7.

I did take 2 T3's Friday night (that was the last ones I took) and I only took those as I restless body so bad Friday night (went all day friday with nothing) I broke down and took some to get some sleep. I must be honest they didnt help. I continued waking up all nervous and couldnt relax. I then decided no more T3 and have not had one at all yesterday and today.

But I still have no appetite.

I did break down last night and took 2 Clonidines (Romeo's advice) which did help me fall asleep for a bit. Then I woke up around 2:00am with all the nervous crap again. I didnt want to take more meds on a completely empty stomache but again, just couldnt relax so took 1 additional Clonidine around 5:00am (.1mg). I fell asleep till about 7:00am ET.

Today I have no energy, my back still hurts. I took a hot bath and tried to go for a walk but feel terrible?

Should I take a small sliver of sub or will that matter this long in to it? I dont know what to do.

Only symptoms are lower back pain, no energy whatsoever, depression (from laying around for a week) dry mouth (from the clonidine) and constipation and nauseu.

I dont have any hot/cold breakouts, I have only sneezed a few times (very random and far apart). I dont particularly have a headache so everything else seems ok. I have no fever or throwing up.


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 2:51 pm 
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Suboxone does take a long time to clear out of your system, so it's not crazy that you're still experiencing symptoms. The RLS from Suboxone wd usually clears up in a week or two. The lack of appetite you still have is a bit worrying, though. If you're not eating, it's going to take you that much longer to get better. I wonder if you're fighting wd in addition to being sick with the throat infection? At any rate, you should really try to eat something, anything. Chicken broth, crackers, a piece of cheese, a couple potato chips.

You had mentioned waking up nervous and not being able to relax. Suboxone wd has a "speediness" to it. The nervousness and inability to relax is pretty common. I know it bites, but it's pretty normal.

If you take a sliver of Suboxone now, all it's going to do is prolong your wd. It won't necessarily set you back, but it'll put everything on hold. All things considered, you're shooting right about par for the course with your wd. Opiate wd is no fun, Karen, but you're 7 days into it and you are certainly getting closer and closer to feeling better. Hang tough, dude.

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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 6:19 pm 
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Thanks Romeo. Trying to eat as much as I can. I took about 1/2 of a bananna and I ate about 3 bites of old heated up pasta (ick)~!! Nothing sounds good. I did see a hamburger commercial and that "looked" good but I dont feel like going out to get anything. My back still feels weird and now Im kind of coming down with a head ache in lower back of my head.

Took my 2nd hot bath today. I tried to walk this morning but only got down the street and came back ( i usually go about 3 miles). My dog is disappointed.

I can move around and do little things. I really believe if my back loosened up and my appetitie came back I would be fine. Those 2 things are what is keeping me so "oppressed" right now. UGH.


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 8:51 am 
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Day 8 - Romeo or anyone, what side affects do you have with Clonidine? I admit it I took one pill around 1:30am last night as I felt "hot" all over. Hot under my skin...very unpleasant. When I would get out of bed I would be freezing. I couldnt get comfortable. Took my 3rd hot bath last night around 1:00am ET to see if that would help. I also got this weird pain in my left upper abdomen..literally kept coming every 30 sec or so so thought the bath would release that (that weird pain started late in day yesterday). Anyway, took 1 clonidine and went right to sleep. Woke up around 5:00am. I took another Clonidine (.1mg) and now I feel "Fog head" again, very listless, no energy. I feel cold and clammy.

I needed something to get me through last night so the Clonidine did help but I dont want to continue this if I feel this way every morning.

Question: I hear alot of folk's talk about Ambien at night. Will that suffice? If I could just take something to help me sleep (was wide awake last night at 1:00am ET) before I finally took the clonidine at 1:30am?

Will Ambien have horrid side affects too? Please help.

P.S. I was able to get 1/2 a hamburger down last night, some bites of a bananna and drank some chicken broth. That has helped. My back doesnt hurt today but I feel so out of it. I dont feel like walking and the thought of hanging out in bed again all day is enough to make me want to take a sliver of sub and feel alittle better???

Can anyone offer advice if something else may help me more than clonidine with less side affects? I want to get rid of this fog head and listless, cold/clammy feeling. It makes me feel do depressed. Today is another beautiful day and I feel I cant do anything.


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 9:46 am 
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Side effects from Clonidine do include sleepiness, it does have a sedative effect. You also have to remember that Clonidine lowers blood pressure, that's really what's it's for, so you should be extremely careful with your doses. You most certainly don't want to crash your blood pressure. It looks like you took a dose at 1:30am then another at 5am, I'm guessing some of your symptoms may be from taking too much Clonidine?

Ambien is fine, but it's habit forming. I took it for a week or so during my wd, but I refused to take it any longer. No way I was getting off one drug just to hop on another.

To not feel like walking or doing anything is classic opiate wd, but by not walking or not doing anything, you're actually making yourself feel worse. I know your brain is probably screaming at you to veg out in bed or on the couch, but it's giving you bad advice. The more you can do to distract your mind and body by staying active, the better you feel. I know it's hard, believe me, I know, but you have to force yourself up and get moving.....even if you're moving at the pace of a glacier.

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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 9:56 am 
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Thanks Romeo. I did think I took too much but was so afraid I wouldnt get back to sleep. I hate taking anything for sleep. Tonight Im going to try to not take anything.

Ok, Im going to try to get out for a walk with my dog and this time finish. Yesterday I did walk but very little (15min) which is nothing for me.

I have a head ache.

I have read so many posts where people are socializing, excericizing, going to meetings at day 4 let alone day 8 - WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!!! I just started eating alittle yesterday and my still feel so out of it.

I hate this so much. I am not 100% at all.


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 10:21 am 
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Wd seems to hit everyone a bit differently. Some people, like you and I, have a hell of a time distracting ourselves from our symptoms. We feel every little ache and pain, we feel every single iota of the yuck that comes with wd and for some reason, it seems like it's all magnified for us. Some people going through wd seem to be able to distract themselves rather easily. They feel their symptoms, but not to the degree that we feel them.

I've never fully understood why some people are able to pretty much breeze through wd, while folks like you and I notice it so much more. I know age, physical fitness, mental health, length of time on opiates, dose you jump from and past wd experiences all factor in it, but I've also read there's some enzyme or some crap like that that people like you and I lack or have that may make wd worse? IDK, but I do know that you will feel better as time passes.

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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 1:48 pm 
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Yep, I am trying to get myself positive. I have praying every day and He is the only reason I have made it through but it is tough. I cant do the clonidine anymore. So not sure how tonight is going to present itself. I hope I am fine.

Today I walked the dog longer. Still didnt make my normal 3 miles but I did get almost half way. I then spent most of the early afternoon laying outside (beautiful day here in NJ). I forced myself to eat at noon time to try to get my body back into a routine. I did eat a good portion of a chicken sandwich - yeah!!!! My head feels better from the sunshine. I actually believe the sun helped sweat out the clonidine more. I read where clonidine can make you photo sensitive from the sun but I feel it helped. I didnt over do it but actually fell asleep alittle in the chair.

So here I am now..what to do now. I'm hoping I can keep my energy up to go to a meeting later but that would require me to blow out my hair and put makeup on. I dont think I have the energy for that. I hope atleast to be able to do a meeting by end of this week.


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 1:24 pm 
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Karen123 wrote:
Yep, I am trying to get myself positive. I have praying every day and He is the only reason I have made it through but it is tough. I cant do the clonidine anymore. So not sure how tonight is going to present itself. I hope I am fine.

Today I walked the dog longer. Still didnt make my normal 3 miles but I did get almost half way. I then spent most of the early afternoon laying outside (beautiful day here in NJ). I forced myself to eat at noon time to try to get my body back into a routine. I did eat a good portion of a chicken sandwich - yeah!!!! My head feels better from the sunshine. I actually believe the sun helped sweat out the clonidine more. I read where clonidine can make you photo sensitive from the sun but I feel it helped. I didnt over do it but actually fell asleep alittle in the chair.

So here I am now..what to do now. I'm hoping I can keep my energy up to go to a meeting later but that would require me to blow out my hair and put makeup on. I dont think I have the energy for that. I hope atleast to be able to do a meeting by end of this week.


I know what you mean about the clonodine, Karen. I have some, and it makes the withdrawal lethargy worse. I still take it but only when creepy crawlies set in, and then, I only take half of one. I take a full one at bedtime to help with sleep.


Congrats on getting out for a walk and eating! The little things like that are a big deal when going thru withdrawal. You inspired me to go out for a walk, I feel a little less lethargic today, and its nice out today. I'm not ready for my bicycle though, I feel uncoordinated at times. Last thing I need is another broken bone and back on the painkillers!


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 8:11 pm 
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Hello everyone. I too had a similar situation. I took my last little speck of zubsolv last Sunday.
I was wondering what to do. I got a hold of one of the nurses and she actually got my RX called in
That Monday, but my local cvs is the douche of all douches, putting my RX on hold instead of filling it.
She just called it in to the wrong town. My usual cvs would have filled no problem.

I checked several times and it wouldn't show up online, so I thought the nurse didn't get the ok.
Anyway a couple of days after that I had a family member pass away, who had received some Hydrocodone from the ER that Saturday night and passed last Wednesday. I ended up asking a
Family member what was givin, not knowing at first what was givin for pain. It was 15 of the 5/325 Norco Tabs. That's even more douchey, I know that but my head was cranking. I kept tossing and turning couldn't get comfortable, weird sleep, 50 sneezes in a row. Speaking of sneezing. I realize I no longer sneeze.

The only time is when I'm in WD. What's up with that? I used to sneeze all the time.
Anyway I took the hydro which helped me sleep and helped release the hydraulic press on my head to get out Of bed.

7 days is the longest I have ever gone without. I actually by day five my head felt ok but my
Stomach was in a knot. Any small bit of food would crank my stomach so tight I couldn't lay down at night. I never had the stomach issues before. Anyway point is that I think the Hydrocodone helped in some way. My WD didn't seem as intense as they have ever been. I think there is more to that. They helped me feel more normal. I wasn't 100% but I felt better. It's been 4 days since I finished off the hydro and now have some sub. I took a small little sliver knowing I was undoing the progress. I know I didn't have enough sub in my system to say I felt better other wise. The small sliv made sleep kind of and I still feel weird. I'm on 3/4 of a 8mg strip and have taking two small slivers the last two days.

I am at a crossroad here but the whole thing in a nutshell is that out of all my withdrawals this one has not been as lengthy before I started with a small sliver.

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 2:29 pm 
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god_from_the_snake wrote:
l
7 days is the longest I have ever gone without. I actually by day five my head felt ok but my
Stomach was in a knot. Any small bit of food would crank my stomach so tight I couldn't lay down at night. I never had the stomach issues before.


Next time, try loading up on some "Boost" (or Ensure) liquid meal replacement drinks, so your stomach doesn't have to work at breaking something down, and you get some nutrition. Also having some Pepto Bismol on hand helps. For nausea, Dramamine can work a trick. Its made for motion sickness but can help with withdrawal nausea as well. And finally, there's Imodium if the runs get out of hand.


-----

How's Karen doing? Are you out there?


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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 4:23 pm 
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Hi everyone, I didnt fare too well but not giving up. On Monday, 5.12 (day 8) I caved around 8p and took a small bit of Sub. I tried everyone. I hate myself for not making it through. I literally was on my knees crying out to God for strength but was so tired of not eating, my skin hurt and my head hurt. I wasnt sure if I would feel better since I was sick that entire week too and not sure what was sickness an what was withdrawal.

Anyway, after that, I didnt have any more Sub for another 48hrs. Even though I caved at day 8, this is progress still as I have NEVER been able to skip days before. I went over 48hrs and then took a "smaller" piece last night (around 7pm). I am not sure why this is so hard on me. It totally sucks.

I never intended for myself to be the negative one. Started out asking for positive feedback only.

Im not giving up. Trying again to see how long I can go inbetween and hopefully I will just keep going

For me it is the heavy head, temp all off (can't get comfortable - hot or cold) and just all over malaise. Doesnt sound that bad so why can't I get through this?!!!! UGH.

I am eating finally and have not been taking clonidine anymore. Just I get about 48hrs then I can't stand myself anymore. I hope this can still happen for me as I so want to be one of the folk's that posts day 30 one day!!


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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