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 Post subject: Suicide in the rooms
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:34 pm 
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I went to a meeting recently, and members were sharing about how a well known "older cleaner member" had just passed away by his own volition. It seemed there was a bit of confusion, because this guy was considered a pillar of the NA community, had sponsees etc.

Whenever I hear of a suicide in the rooms, I get quite angry at NA. When I was working the program every day, a full time na-na, I felt that psychiatry was a bad thing. Every day I heard them say on that hand-out "we sought help through medication, religion and psychiatry, but none of these things worked for us." Within the 12-step program, there is this idea that if a person is unhappy, or depressed in the rooms, it's because they're not working the program hard enough. The 12-steps are THE only form of personal development a person needs. There's also a suggestion that seeking help with psychiatry is risky, as drug-seeking could be the motivation rather than a need for genuine help.

When I was in the program, my last sponsor suggested that if I worked the steps hard enough, I would no longer require medication for my mental illness. He also suggested that bipolar doesn't exist, that everyone has ups and downs. He also suggested the 12-steps are the only program I need in my life. It was then that I finally realised, after doing NA for three years and working the program, going off my medications and relapsing into depression despite praying every day and working the steps.

To me, when a person kills themselves within the fellowship because they've refused to get medical help, the program has blood on its hands. The last meeting I went to, a person who I used to be friendly with (I don't do many meetings now) shared from the floor that when he was in addiction, he'd use to escape when he was depressed. Now that he's in recovery, when he's depressed he thinks of suicide to escape. And he was confused and desperate because he was doing all the suggested things in the program, and he was still having those thoughts. When I hear a guy saying that, I think he needs medical help. Yet because the program is so disparaging towards psychiatry, so many people refuse to get the help they need.

If you are in a 12-step program, and you are depressed or contemplating self-harm, or suicide. The for fucks sake see a doctor, don't see your sponsor.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:59 am 
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Thanks for sharing that with us, TJ. I agree with you 100%. Any person who actively dissuades someone who is suicidal from seeking help, to me, IS partly responsible. I don't see how such a person could sleep at night. I'm just so sorry to hear about someone - another addict, hell anyone - taking their own life. Just the thought of someone in that much pain breaks my heart. Many of us have been that low before and we know how horrible it feels. I hate the fact that such deep, dark depression has taken another life when it could have been treated. What a fucking waste.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:08 pm 
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I'm sorry to the people in NA but its a joke. Everyone could benefit from mental health treatment in some way shape or form especially addicts. The majority of us at one point used to escape our problemms and like this kid now that he doesn't have that escape he's left with one choice in his mind. In reality there are so many techniques you can learn in mental health treatment to deal with your problems. But we need help in finding those new techniques if we could do it on our own we wouldn't b in this mess in the first place. Sorry just venting that kid is crying out for help and NA and the people in it are not helping by telling him that horse shit!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:56 pm 
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Bboy42287 wrote:
Everyone could benefit from mental health treatment in some way shape or form especially addicts.


I agree. I have always thought that if it were free to go to a therapist, I could benefit from going to treatment forever. I believe that there's always something that can be taken away from therapy...even when I am feeling healthy and not in the midst of some kind of crisis...just looking inward...being mindful of daily circumstancs, contemplating them and talking things out would be helpful no matter what point in life we are at. I would just have to get over the feeling of being uncomfortable talking about my life to a total stranger. That and money are what keeps me from going to a therapist right now.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:46 pm 
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AA--NA-'. they have this religen to beleive a light bolb or A god and when a person speaks up in a meeting for help they say talk to some one after the meating and ya you get your little talk witch is keep coming back and this god is going to do the rest and then they kill them self's we have a big f'n problem here also with suicide. :cry:
any one talks to me here, about na-aa i say you are taking a risk.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:32 pm 
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Puppets on a string. That was always the phrase that came to mind when I went to 12 step meetings. I have never seen so many people in one place that have the exact same personality. The cliques were worse than high school, and if you steered clear of the drama, which I do, you weren't "working" the program... whatever! I have already had the misfortune of running into a woman I used to see regularly at meetings. I saw her at our town grocery store. And I hear this "Kelly!" loud enough for the whole store to hear. Like she's sooooo happy to see me. ya right. I say "whats up" She asked what meetings I've been going to as she hadn't seen me around. I told her I see an addictions counselor once a week, my pdoc once a month, and I am on suboxone. You woulda thought I told her I was drowning kittens in my spare time. She said I will NEVER make it taking drugs. Ok. Thanks for sharing I said. and walked away. I probably would have said a lot more if my son hadn't been with me.

If I didn't see my pdoc and a therapist, I'd relapse over and over for the rest of my life. I enjoy having the opportunity to work through the things that lead me back to using every time.

I couldn't agree more! If you are depressed and are thinking about suicide, don't see your sponsor, see a doctor. Well said Tearjerker!

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:15 am 
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my doc still say's this forum is good enough for my meetings. he understands the things i go through in AA/NA

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:54 am 
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I just pretty much quit going two weeks ago, after attending this one group for well over six months.
there were about 6 of us that are on suboxone going, so thats why I started going 'regularly' about 6 mo ago.

Well, for one thing it was sopposed to be a young person meeting, and all kinds of "old timers" began coming, which is fine......
but when a couple of these guys found out we werent doing the 'steps' we were just coming for moral support and all that,,,,,,
um,,,
it didnt go over so well.
I tried going again, and none of my 'fellows' were there.

Somebody must have said something to the suboxone doctor, cuz now HES starting "our own" meetings down at the clinic, and there will be an actual addiction counselor/therapist, and he wants to do some sort of program where ppl that have been on sub awhile can 'help' new people with induction and all that.

So now, that meeting starts in just a couple weeks.

They "say" you just have to not want to use/drink to attend meetings.
But, Im not sure thats true.
somebody once compared NA/AA to a 'cult' on here once, and now after MY experience, I can SORTA see why???

Ive done 'some' form of the steps with my addiction therapist, so I didnt really see the point of the other ones, especially when I dont want to 'admit' that I believe in a higher power. Iknow it doesnt HAVE to be God. But try and tell one of these guys that.
I think atheists are more hated than murderers, to some people!!!!!!! not to everyone of course.
and Im not even 'sure' what I believe.
Im still trying to figure that part out..............................................

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:54 pm 
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amber4.14.11 wrote:

Somebody must have said something to the suboxone doctor, cuz now HES starting "our own" meetings down at the clinic, and there will be an actual addiction counselor/therapist, and he wants to do some sort of program where ppl that have been on sub awhile can 'help' new people with induction and all that.


That's awesome. That's pretty much exactly what you want in a group...


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:41 am 
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there was all kinds of meetings for are health that did not make the market in the past 80 or so years that could have been
pretty good, and why did AA/NA stick so well and become so DAMM strick with force and the law. i have no thing against the program but what give's any thing the right to put a (------) on some one? :o

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 Post subject: Re: Suicide in the rooms
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:40 pm 
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NA/AA is absolutely a joke. When someone has recovered from their DOC, why do they need to keep being told that they're an addict & that they're powerless over that substance? Okay, okay, I understand the temptation we feel, but I am NOT powerless. I don't need someone in my face telling me how my recovery should be.

Every person is different. If the 12 step program & a bunch of same faced people telling you what you have to do worked for you then hey, that's great. My recovery is MY RECOVERY. I am 100% fine with having to take buprenorphine for the rest of my beautiful, happy, healthy & bright life.


Love,

Ash

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 Post subject: Re: Suicide in the rooms
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Ashlee, have you explored SMART Recovery? One of the principles is 'I have the power to change.'
It is based on CBT; a common psychotherapy that folks are using and the language and tools in SMART reinforces what they are learning with their therapist.
Another cool thing about SMART is the exit strategy, there is not an expectation you will be participating the rest of your life.


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide in the rooms
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:29 pm 
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I very much agree with docm2!!

https://www.smartrecovery.org/

LInk above.

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: Suicide in the rooms
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:57 pm 
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I've heard about SMART recovery, I'm very much interested! I have a therapist appointment for the first time on April 26th. I'm gonna have to let my therapist know about it, or maybe she already knows!


I'm gonna take a looksie at it right meow. I'll never go to another 12 step meeting again, just like Amber said. It's a cult! Besides, have any of you ever been to one of those meetings? It always smells like a mixture of stale cigarettes, week old coffee & depression. I would always feel depressed & sad anytime I would attend one.


Love,

Ash

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 Post subject: Re: Suicide in the rooms
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:12 am 
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When I went to inpatient rehab, it was NA based recovery. That's all we were taught, the steps and attending as many meetings as we could. I just couldn't make it work because I was having such awful cravings that I couldn't even eat, let alone focus on working steps. I know there's probably going to be ppl say that I wasn't working them right or this or that.... but honestly, how could I? Here I was newly in recovery and just lost. I wasn't hearing anything but screaming in my mind, my body and my brain telling me that I had to get opiates. There wasn't any relief from surrendering or just because I went to a meeting it was going to get better.

Some ppl can make it work like that, I have no doubts that some ppl can make NA work, but I couldn't. So why think that NA is the only way? It just doesn't make sense to me that they outcast the ppl on maintenance. That's what ticks me off with them, the way they judge ppl on maintenance. Here this organization is talking about judgements and they're judging their own ppl. That's just the way I've always looked at it. I wouldn't ever try to steer someone away from NA but some ppl (most ppl) need more. I learned a lot from them but it just wasn't enough for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Suicide in the rooms
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:47 pm 
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Jenn,

We're all in this together girlfriend! :) Not one person can tell us how our recovery should be, all in favor of lifelong Suboxone maintenance for our opiate addictions, please say I!!!


And don't be lazy people, the more we get this out about Suboxone maintenance, the more people we can save!



Love,

Ash

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