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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:40 pm 
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Currently on 8mg subutex ( have been for years) suboxone is fairly new in the UK but they are slowly switching everyone to suboxone
I have discussed the differences with my doctor from what I gather
suboxone contains naloxone
which is not absorbed by the body if taken sublingually
however if injected or snorted this naloxone (blocker) will be absorbed making the user feel sick.

I do not abuse or snort my medication in anyway shape or form.
But knowing that this naloxone is in there does worry me somewhat.
I do understand that maybe somepeople do abuse there meds and am all for stopping them.
but how do they differentiate between snorting and taking sublingually the two actions do seem to be simerlar roughly being absorbed in the same area.
AM I worring about nothing?


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 10:32 pm 
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I am on Suboxone now but I want to change to Subutex. :idea:
naloxone could make you depressed or grumpy. :evil:
naloxone is used for stopping people shooting up the Suboxone.
but you can snort Suboxone, it will make the same outcome. :wink:
Suboxone tastes like crap. :oops:
over all it will only help you with the withdraws :?
but i still have cravings for oxy. (cuz it makes me happy) :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:33 am 
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Honestly, I think the whole "naloxone will make you sick if you inject it" is just somethin the doctor tells us to make us scared. I only say this because ive been injecting suboxone for 2 1/2 years and have never gotten any sicker then when I took it sublingul(under tongue). I often wonder if anybody else out there injects it also. Being a herion addict I began to crave the needle as much as the drug. So when I first started on suboxone it just wasnt enough, I still had the "itch". One day I just took the plunge and said im either about to get really sick or feel really good. Thank god it was the second choice. It satisfied both my cravings and I didnt have to taste that nasty suboxone taste anymore.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:38 am 
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I am also in the UK Gavereley, and I too was worried about the switch from subutex to suboxone. In fact, that was how I discovered Dr Junig on Youtube whilst looking for info. I began subutex treatment in Feb 09, and made the switch to suboxone after 3 months. I actually find that suboxone works a little better for me, it seems to last longer. Obviously everyone is different, so I hope that you find it as good as I have so far. Good luck with your treatment mate.
PS check out my posts in the 'my addiction story' forum if you like.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:00 am 
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James668 wrote:
Honestly, I think the whole "naloxone will make you sick if you inject it" is just somethin the doctor tells us to make us scared. I only say this because ive been injecting suboxone for 2 1/2 years and have never gotten any sicker then when I took it sublingul(under tongue). I often wonder if anybody else out there injects it also. Being a herion addict I began to crave the needle as much as the drug. So when I first started on suboxone it just wasnt enough, I still had the "itch". One day I just took the plunge and said im either about to get really sick or feel really good. Thank god it was the second choice. It satisfied both my cravings and I didnt have to taste that nasty suboxone taste anymore.


That is very difficult to believe given the chemical properties of Naloxone and the way it reacts in the body.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:25 pm 
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Its ok if you dont believe me. I dont believe much I read on internet forums either. But me my fiance and about 5 ta 7 friends I know inject suboxone with no adverse effects. I've been doin it for the longest, then my friends caught on and started. I only do about half the amount that I would do the normal way. 4mg in the a.m. and 4mg in the evening. Seriously it works! Im tellin ya.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:14 am 
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First off I believe subs is an extremly political drug and I agree the us govt is not above putting forth propaganda with the goal of manipulating addict behavior.... and I'm not saying your experience is untrue. However, it goes against everything medically reported with regards to an antagonist like naloxone combined with a partial agonist like bupe. Naloxone is a drug actually used to counter the effects of opioid overdose.

Here is what I found at Wikopedia:

Pharmacodynamics
Naloxone has an extremely high affinity for μ-opioid receptors in the central nervous system. Naloxone is a μ-opioid receptor competitive antagonist, and its rapid blockade of those receptors often produces rapid onset of withdrawal symptoms. Naloxone also has an antagonist action, though with a lower affinity, at κ- and δ-opioid receptors.

Naloxone was added to buprenorphine in an effort to dissuade patients from grinding up the Suboxone tablet and using it as part of a combination of opiates that the user would inject into his body. Intravenously administered naloxone is supposed to block the effects of any opiates and cause the user to go into immediate withdrawal. However, buprenorphine has a higher affinity for the opiate receptors, and many users have reported that Suboxone is injectable without inducing withdrawal effects.[ Oral or sublingual administration affects only the gastronintestinal tract, and has the added benefit of helping to reverse constipation and lowered bowel motility caused by chronic medical use or abuse of a variety of opioids. Buprenorphine itself has less of an effect on the central nervous system and produces far less euphoria than other opioid drugs, while still being effective in the treatment of pain. For this reason, buprenorphine is gaining acceptance in the treatment of chronic pain, as well as opioid addiction withdrawal, since it produces fewer side effects and less sedation. On the whole, it is a drug moderately useful in pain management that is further attractive due to its relative lack of desirability to opioid abusers. Currently, only certified addictionologists (physicians specializing in the treatment of drug addiction and dependence) are legally permitted to prescribe Suboxone or other drugs containing buprenorphine for the treatment of addiction in the US, although suboxone or other drugs containing buprenorphine can be prescribed for any purpose other than addiction or maintenance by any licensed physician. Buprenorphine was originally approved for use in the management of pain as Buprenex, but its use is not very common. This will likely change as medical professionals obtain more experience in its use as an analgesic in chronic pain management.


The red underlined [added by me] tends to support what you say from your personal experience. In other words there have been other addicts who support your claim.

I hope you aren't using subs IV regularly and and on an ongoing basis. Even if you are using clean and new needles your veins will eventually collapse from abuse and you will need to be more and more creative in locating areas to shoot and will also need to increase your dose to get the same results. Subs also has a ceiling effect to where the only "benefit" will be quicker effects to keep you from WD's. It only takes 15-20 minutes to feel the subs under your tongue anyway... so I just don't see that it's worth it. Please consider using as directed.

I personally don't know anyone who has IV subs so I can't dispute what you say from mine or anothers experience.

I would like to ask anyone else who has IV subs to relate their results here...


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 Post subject: Re: injecting suboxone
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:41 am 
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I just read this recently in pamphlet by NAABT:

"If Suboxone is administered intravenously, the naloxone will help cause immediate withdrawal symptoms in opioid-physically dependent people."

Just thought I'd share...

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:23 pm 
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I have had both, switched back and forth several times and I never saw any difference between them. You have nothing to worry about.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:32 am 
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Maybe my body is used to naloxone or something. I did get injested with it about 4 years ago when I overdosed on heroin. It was intense like bein brought back to instant soberness and reality in the snap of a finger. The paremedics said people usually start throwing up. They asked if I was gonna be sick. but I felt fine. Just hot flashes on my skin. Wkile I was at the hospital i Could actually feel it warring off as I got higher and higher sitting there. They wouldnt let me leave untill I took a piss test and anybody on herion knows how hard it can be to do that high. Any how my point is maybe my body is used to it.?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:52 pm 
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I believe the naloxone is mainly just a way of making opiate addicts who are still using think twice before shooting Subs. In reality though if someone is dependant on opiates with a tolerance level greater than about 2mgs of Suboxone/bupe which in turn is equal to 30-40mgs of methadone (which was essentially every addict I knew as well as me personally as I usually hovered around .5 grams of oxycodone a day) and they try to shoot a Suboxone they'll go into withdrawal from the bupe itself so the naloxone is totally just a political tool to help congress feel better about allowing an opiate medication to be given to opiate addicts.

On another note those who are shooting Suboxone while I'm sure it is possible and doesn't cause withdrawal why in the world would you want to put all the aweful fillers and what not in your veins???? When you first started Suboxone it may have given you a a bit more of a buzz if your tolerance was low enough after having been on the medication for awhile shooting it won't make you feel any different than dissolving the medication in your mouth. I realize many addicts miss the physical act of shooting up in and of itself but I'd just be really worried about injecting orange goo into my arms to get the same effect I would have gotten taking it orally. Once you've been taking Suboxone at a dose higher than 2-4 mgs for awhile and you're getting great absorbtion (not eating or drinking after dosing and allowing plenty of time for dosing) shooting, snorting, and dissolving a tablet orally will all produce the same effect. Now if someone still really loves shooting/snorting then they could potentially have some good feelings as a result of doing the same things you did when you were using which can trigger some very powerful memories of getting high in the past. But I gurantee you as it is a fact that if you got used to taking Suboxone sublingualy for awhile then there wouldn't seem to be anything special about having to dose. I dunno my thoughts on the subject at least.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:06 am 
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I am a recovering IV opiate addict I shot Oxycontin, Heroin, and other full agonist opiates from the ages of 17-21. With the fellowship of alcoholics anonymous, god, and suboxone I am now sober and in recovery. I joined this forum for the sole purpose of correcting the gross and dangerous misinformation about injecting suboxone from James668 or whatever the username is, and also what is on Wikipedia about injecting suboxone. YOU CANNOT INJECT SUBOXONE WITHOUT GOING INTO IMMEDIATE AND PAINFUL WITHDRAWLS. I know from personal experience in a night of desperation wanting to inject something i read on this forum from the user "James668" and also from Wikipedia that the naloxone actually wouldn't cause me to withdrawl. The idea that the affinity of the bupernorphrine is greater than that of the naloxone so it will override the naloxone is FALSE. I ground up to 2mg suboxens containing .5mg naloxone each (enough naloxone to reverse a person that is unconscious and not breathing after a Heroin overdose). Dissolved the pills in warm water in a spoon drew them up through cotton, into a 1cc needle filling it about half full. I injected into my arm i didn't even get the plunger all the way down because the liquid suboxone burned so bad, I pulled the needle out of the vein. At first I was lightheaded within 5 minutes I had horrid chills the worst withdrawl chills ever, my muscles began to ache and spasm, I got instant cold sweats, and perhaps the worst part was all the depression and despair that comes with opiod withdrawl seemed to hit me in a matter of seconds. The world felt dark and deppressing life seemed meaningless I felt suicidal and had to get into the hot shower to stop the chills and muscle pain. It took an hour for me to start feeling back to normal but remained in withdrawl until I used a full agonist opiod the next day. I right all this to say YOU CANNOT INJECT SUBOXONE WITHOUT GOING INTO WITHDRAWL, WIKIPEDIA IS WRONG, ANYONE WHO SAYS YOU CAN IS CRAZY OR LYING, NO MATTER HOW BAD YOU ARE CRAVING YOU WILL BE MUCH BETTER OF THAN IF YOU INJECT SUBOXONE

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:48 am 
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Thanks for setting the record straight on that. You might want to post this in a new and separate thread so others can easily find this info.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:22 am 
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Now I may be very wrong on this.....but if you are already on suboxone and miss injecting it, then couldn't you inject it and it wouldn't change anything? I swear I read in some of the suboxone research and literature that there was even an injectable form although that may have been subutex. But either way, the naloxone wouldn't do anything if you weren't on full opioids anyways right?

Not that I could ever inject anything into myself nor can I imagine anyone missing that but each to his own. I hold no judgment on anyone. I feel for you though.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:09 pm 
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This is a little alarming. I would hate to see someone come on here looking for advice and see this and decide to give this a try.
James668 wrote:
Honestly, I think the whole "naloxone will make you sick if you inject it" is just somethin the doctor tells us to make us scared. I only say this because ive been injecting suboxone for 2 1/2 years and have never gotten any sicker then when I took it sublingul(under tongue). I often wonder if anybody else out there injects it also. Being a herion addict I began to crave the needle as much as the drug. So when I first started on suboxone it just wasnt enough, I still had the "itch". One day I just took the plunge and said im either about to get really sick or feel really good. Thank god it was the second choice. It satisfied both my cravings and I didnt have to taste that nasty suboxone taste anymore.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:52 pm 
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I can tell you that this is a very frustrating point for me. It seems like more and more lately I am seeing really false information posted here. It may be by well meaning people, but some of it is just very wrong and false nonetheless. Some of it is off the wall and simply put -- crazy.

In this case, naloxone or Narcan will most certainly block all opiate narcotics - INCLUDING SUBOXONE. Narcan is a drug that I am very familiar with, in fact I co-authored an article in a national publication about Narcan several years ago. It can be administered in a wide variety of ways including IV, IM, Sub Q, Nasal spray and even rectally. It is a very potent drug and will slam you into withdrawals within seconds to a minute. In the form that it comes within Suboxone, it does not get into your system and does not do anything - when taken sublingual. However, if given IV, or quite possibly, any of the other drug routes that I just listed, the Narcan within Suboxone will work just like it does when it comes in it's own vial without Suboxone. I can't comment on what may have been going on with the poster that claims he shot it all of the time. I can tell you that I have had to personally administer this medication (in my former job) in as high of a total dose as 6mg to wake up a heroin overdose patient. I guess it's possible that in the case of the person that made this claim 0.5 mg was not enough to overcome all of the other opiates in this posters body. That's just a guess.

Look, it's not going to kill you or even really physically harm you if you inject Narcan. You will come to regret it in seconds as you experience the worst withdrawal of your life. But it will not kill you. Why anyone would take that chance is beyond me. You can listen to what this addict is telling you or you can listen to someone with nearly 25 years of experience administering Narcan in emergency situations. It's your choice.

My bigger concern is please, please, please... STOP posting things that you are less than sure about. Don't say this or that when you really have no idea or are just plain guessing about whatever you are posting about. At least take a moment to Google or otherwise "look up" or "research" what you are about to post. It will save a lot of people a lot of headache by not having to correct your misinformation or worse yet having some unsuspecting person read it and suffer more harm to them. I really think that as "friends" on this board we owe it to each other to not spread misinformation to each other or to make claims that are sometimes not only wrong, they seem like they came from outer space. There is a reason that naloxone is part of Suboxone - it's because it works!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:57 pm 
I agree.....It's frustrating to me too when people spout out information as if it's fact when they don't know what they're talking about. I got pretty used to it being in the medical field for so long.
What I think frustrates me even more right now is for people to post on our forum who seem to have very little interest in recovery. Somehow I missed this whole thread or else I would have probably had something to say about it sooner. It really pisses me off for some reason when people talk about abusing their Suboxone!! I can handle people buying it off the street a little bit.....I can give them a break because I figure maybe they'll get to a doctor and do it right. I don't approve of it and it irritates me a little bit. But this whole shooting it up and even snorting it, really aggravates the crap out of me! And it's not a judgmental thing on my part. I've mainlined a lot of drugs.....pharmaceutical grade narcotics though, not crushed up pills.....what the heck!!??
When we are in active addiction, we are chasing the high, looking for that feeling.....I get that. There isn't much we won't do to get there. Actually, eventually we're not even always chasing a high, we're just trying to get somewhere near feeling good. That was THEN! This is NOW!! We're supposed to be taking Suboxone/Subutex as a part of trying to get better. If you can't even take it by the appropriate route, then in my opinion, your recovery is a JOKE!! You need way more help than this medication can give you.
I am a far cry from perfect in my recovery....I have made plenty of mistakes.....I still sometimes think I can treat or heal myself.....I still want to control the way this works sometimes. But you guys talking about mainlining your Suboxone need to go get more help. Please don't come around here spreading your nonsense......seriously!!
If I've pissed anybody off....oh well. Maybe I'm wrong here, but yeah.....this pisses me off!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:17 am 
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There's 2 sides to this subject. IF there's opiates in your system and you shoot suboxone you will go threw extreme withdrawls, (which a hot shower can fix because it last like 10 minutes then you feel good) If there is no opiates in your system you wont go threw withdrawls and you'll feel good. Those are the facts.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:37 am 
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WOW, I've been away from this board for a couple of weeks due to an insane work schedule and it seems that the crowd is changing here rapidly and not all for the good.

Injecting Suboxone is basically active addiction. I feel sorry for anyone who is doing something like this.

It's not meant to be injected at all, it's meant to be taken under the tongue, period.


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 Post subject: About Misinformation
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:02 am 
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First of all, I would like to apologise. I know this post is long, but I believe the information I have provided is worth your while to read. The following members, setmefree, TBrays12, James668, suboxfreedom and donh, should especially read this post, since it is particularly in reply to their posts on this thread. In reply to setmefree, I do agree that as far as recovery goes, yes, someone who is IVing Suboxone is probably not taking their recovery very seriously. For IV users, we are not only recovering from a drug, but also from an addiction to the needle, which often times is an even stronger psychological addiction than the feeling the drug itself provides.

However, TBrays12, who made the claim that James668 must be lying, merely because their experience was different, is ignorant. Actually, I believe TBrays12 is providing more false information than James668, since both experiences have some validity in their own separate ways. And I find it a bit hypocritical for suboxfreedom to reply with "Thanks for setting the record straight on that." How do you know TBrays12 is indeed "setting the record straight?" Who is to say they are right and James668 is wrong? What suboxfreedom is basically doing is choosing which anonymous person (in this case TBrays12) they agree with more, then for this reason claiming TBrays12 was right and has "set...the record straight," while completely dismissing what James668 was saying about their own personal experience as false. Well who is to say that TBrays12 was not lying? Or perhaps they are even both lying.

Now, based on my own experiences - of course, since that is all I can base my replies on - what I believe is that they are both right. At least when it comes to what happened to them. I believe that James668 is able to shoot suboxone without precipitating withdrawals. I also believe that TBrays12 did indeed precipitate withdrawals when they shot it. James668 probably shot suboxone when they had no full agonist opiates in their system. Therefore, there would be no opiates for the naloxone to knock off of the receptors, thus sending them into withdrawals. TBrays12 was probably an active user at the time and had full agonist opiates on their receptors when they shot suboxone. The naloxone would thus get to the receptors knocking off the opiates and sending them into instant, horrible withdrawals.

To follow this up, I would like to give my own experience with shooting suboxone. Just because this was my experience does not mean it will be the same as yours (just as the above two people may not be the same as yours.) For those of you who are ignorant enough to view someone else's experience as objective truth, than you deserve whatever misfortune may come your way from copying whatever they did. The point of a forum is to gather various data (in this case, people's personal experiences) from various different sources and then decide what you believe will be best for you. And always remember, we are not your doctor, so there is always a bit of trial and error involved when going about something in this manner. Unfortunately, when it comes to drugs (and really any illegal or stigmatised behaviour) this is really the only way to go about it. It's called harm reduction.

On this note, I would like to point out that for donh to post, "STOP posting things that you are less than sure about," is the incorrect demand to make from people like James668. They were not posting something that they were "less than sure about," they were posting something they were very sure about, as it was simply their own experience. Just because it may not have been your experience or you have never heard of this happening before does not mean it is false. Perhaps what donh should have said was STOP posting things that go against what I believe. I would also like to reply to donh, that for "someone with nearly 25 years of experience administering Narcan in emergency situations," I find it a little strange that you would even entertain the idea that "it's possible that in the case of the person that made this claim 0.5 mg was not enough to overcome all of the other opiates in this posters body," even if it is "just a guess." You are aware that we are discussing Suboxone, which contains both naloxone and buprenorphine. Read the next paragraph to find out my understanding of how these two substances work when shot together. Drug interactions are a very important aspect of illegal or legal drug use. Being an apparent expert, you should know this, I would think. So, yea, I would rather "listen to what this addict is telling" me. At least they are discussing a personal experience that is therefore true, even if it is merely subjectively true. The words that you, who knows oh so much, are spouting are misinformed and just plain wrong.

Back to my experience: I had shot up 2mg suboxone 3 separate times in the past after being clean off of opiates for 4 days or more before each time. All three times, I got high and had no precipitated withdrawals. Also, about a year before this I had sniffed 2mg suboxone about 20 hours after my last hit, as well as while being an active every day IV Heroin user and did precipitate withdrawals. But, in order to concentrate on the IV aspect, I will not go into detail about this. After those 3 times, I shot up 2mg suboxone on a different occasion about 6 hours after my last shot of Heroin. At this time, I had used 8 bags of Heroin over a 4 day period, with at least one bag being used each day. Previous to those 4 days, I would occasionally take 4mg suboxone sublingually about once every 2-3 days. While using the suboxone sublingually, I used no other opiates. So, when I shot the suboxone this time, I almost immediately went into withdrawals. Cold sweat instantly formed on my back. About a minute after the shot I began to throw up. This lasted about 5 minutes and then I realised not only had the withdrawals disappeared, but lo and behold, I was high! My understanding of the mechanisms of this (and I am not a doctor and I am not 100% sure about the exact mechanisms) are that the naloxone, being quicker than the suboxone, reached my receptors first, knocked off the Heroin already on my receptors, and thus sent me into withdrawals. However, the much slower buprenorphine reached the receptors 5 minutes later, and being stronger than the naloxone, overpowered the naloxone, took effect and got me "high." It is for this reason that naloxone will take an unconscious Heroin addict out of an overdose, but will not do the same for someone who has overdosed on buprenorphine.

Anyway, that is my experience and how I feel about this topic. Thank you for reading if you made it all the way through.

EDIT: For some reason I completely missed the last two posts. And after reading them now, I would like to point out that jgjgjgjgjgjg's post is basically my post, but worded much more simply.


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