It is currently Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:10 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:37 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:04 am
Posts: 5
Hello .
I have post traumatic stress - as a result i suffer from severe anxiety -
the anxiety is mostly physical . i mean i got exaggerated stratle response - i jump from sounds ,and movements
and onging feeling of anxiety in the chest , neck , trembeling , a lot of adrenalin , and insomnia . cannot function .
that is going non stop , 24/7 for year and a half now - after i got PTSD (posr traumatic stress)
I have tried all psychiatric normal medicince without any help . psychological , meditation etc is not helping. nothing.

the only drug that are helping are benzodiazapines - but i cannot use them because i developed huge tolrenace .


i got prescription for subatex in a private clinck pretended to be a heroin addict.
now they gave me subutex 8 mg. tablets .
i am hoping it can help me some way , by using it on a dayli basis.
I dont have any opiod tollercance at all ( 0 tolerance ) and the doctors at the clicnk suggestes me to take the subutex 2 dayli
( 4 mg at morning and 4 mg at afternoon under tongue ) .
i found it impossible to mange this dosage - so i started to take it yesterday by cuting the tablets to 2 mg's, and took it twice - one in the morning and one in the afternonon , etc.
i still cannot tolerate the drug at this dosage , as i get nausea , vomoting , dizziness , etc.

What should i do ? i want to go with it , , and i have hope it could help my condition if i get used to it (to the subatex) . ( i am aware of the dependence )

i know that the drug is for addiction treatment , but i belive it has some anti anxiety propeties as well .
I need some advice , about what to do , and what dosage should i take , how to take, and how to became tolerant to the side effects ?

thank you .
sorry for bad english , i am from Israel .


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:11 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4847
Location: Leesburg, FL
Hello ikop and welcome to the forum. I'm sorry you're struggling with so much anxiety. I know how difficult that is and how badly it can affect all areas of one's life.

What gave you the idea that sub could help your anxiety? As far as I know, suboxone/subutex would have zero effect on anxiety. In fact, some people actually say they have increased anxiety from going on sub.

Are you aware that sub is an opiate? And a very strong one at that. You are opiate naive and I'm not surprised in the least that you cannot tolerate high doses of bupe (suboxone/subutex). It's used in hospitals in MICROGRAM doses. For addiction it's used in MILLIGRAMS - big difference. If you continue to take it, you WILL become dependent on it and to get off it you will have to taper off and will still likely have to deal with withdrawals.

It's my non-medical opinion that you're not a good candidate for sub. It's not meant to treat anxiety and you'll definitely end up dependent on it and with a VERY high tolerance to opiates!

I know you don't want to hear this and I'm sorry to have to be the one to give you this opinion. I truly hope you can find some other options. I just don't think this is the appropriate one.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:57 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:04 am
Posts: 5
Maybe i am wrong but all opiates must have calming antianxiety effect .
correct me if i am wrong , but to overcome phisical Withdrawal from heroin (for example ) a patient can be helped by subatex and than taper the subatex. but many people use it as a Maintenance drug for years.
so to my the simple logic is that subatex has some of the desirable effects of heroin (without the euphoria ?)
and that is the main reason that some people use it for years...as a Maintenance treatment ....
so maybe those "desirable effects" could help me and my anxiety ???

i accept your opinon , but i would like to hear another opinons .
be aware that i allready tried allmost evry "normal psychiatric drug" , including benzodiazapines at high dayli doses and became depended on it and went through very unplesent benzo Withdrawal that lasted for half year allmost...


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject: Subutex- For Anxiety??
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:13 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 252
Location: Over the Rainbow
hatmaker510 wrote:
<snip>
It's my non-medical opinion that you're not a good candidate for sub. It's not meant to treat anxiety and you'll definitely end up dependent on it and with a VERY high tolerance to opiates!

I know you don't want to hear this and I'm sorry to have to be the one to give you this opinion. I truly hope you can find some other options. I just don't think this is the appropriate one. (emphasis-mine)



Yes, I would have to agree with hatmaker, here, on this one.

Have you tried- or are you in- any kind of talk therapy for your extreme anxiety?

As well, I do not exactly agree with someone "pretending to be a heroin addict" to obtain Subutex.

However, this is just my opinion.

_________________
"-"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:23 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4847
Location: Leesburg, FL
Has your doctor(s) ever put you on a beta blocker? It's often used off-label for stress/anxiety. It slows/stops the physical symptoms of stress/anxiety. I take a beta blocker for tachycardia and PRN for stress/anxiety, but I used to be on xanax before that. The beta blocker works WAY better than the xanax ever did. I'd urge you to try that before going any further and getting dependent on a very strong, powerful opiate.

But yes, many people, I'm sure including some who have gone off suboxone and can share their experiences with you, will pop in with their opinions.

Whatever you do, I hope you can get some relief soon.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:23 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:44 am
Posts: 88
Location: NWNJ
Oh my gosh! I agree with hat also and think you will creating a whole other set of problems for yourself! This is a very strong medication and we use it to overcome our addiction and in a way you are using it to BECOME addicted and that YOU WILL! You are opiate naive so its really not a very good idea,you can die if you take too high a dose.There are so many other options out there for anxiety,not so many for us addicts.Please find another method to manage your anxiety.

_________________
I just want to get the monkey off of my back for good!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:28 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:44 am
Posts: 88
Location: NWNJ
One other thing,we are all individual and to say opiates give a calming feeling isnt always the case.I think you will only provoke your anxiety by using Sub.When I used opiates,and the reason I became addicted,is because I got VERY stimulated when I took them.Quite the opposite of what you are trying to achieve.Bad idea.Also....if you "pretended" to be an addict,which is crazy,how on earth could the dr prescribe you a medication when you are not even in withdrawal.Didnt he take urine or do the COWS test on you? I assume not.I also assume you were not induced in the office or you would have became very sick in front of him.I dont agree with it at all and for some reason I feel a little offended.

_________________
I just want to get the monkey off of my back for good!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:15 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:04 am
Posts: 5
melijm
well .... as a result of ptsd i am very sick , and look very sick .
i sleep for 2 hours at night, i became very thin , my eyes are red , i have tremor, etc. i did not even neded to play a role... i look like i am in Withdrawal ....
and about the options out there for anxiety it is not that simple.
ptsd is not a regular anxiety , it is very extreem form of body and mind sress that is very intense and ongoing .
and up to day there is no true help .
i have tried many diffrent drugs , anti depresants like ssri , snri , betha blockers ,antiepileptic drugs , clonodine , benzodiazapines.
those things did not help my condition at all only the benzos did , but my dose grew up to 20 tabs dayli of clonazepam to get a relief, so i could not go with it anymore.

i am looking into Opioids because i need to find somthing to be able to function at minimal level , untill they will find somthing to my condition.
what i dont know yet yet if subaxone or subatex could help me a litlle for couple of years (1 to 3) .even though It is addictive....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:31 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:04 am
Posts: 5
I am aware of what you said, and that it can be a mistake to try it . but( it is the secםnd day on subatex for me.)
the reason i came to the forum is to find more info , and to hear from experiences from people .
who took subaxone for anxiety , or with combind anxiety and addiction ... ( 100% i will not find here a person with PTSD , but any info with anxiety sufferres wil help ) .

lets say that i want to try it for one month.
what doses should take ? i think 2 mg is too much, so i am pllaning to cut it to 1 mg * 2 . (dayli)
any practical help and experiences will be good for me.


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:38 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4847
Location: Leesburg, FL
Actually, I do have a very severe case of PTSD and have been treated for it for years. My years of opiate abuse actually made my anxiety much worse. The suboxone didn't help it at all either. I still needed meditation, lots of therapy, antidepressants, mood stabilizers, and beta blockers (I also have major depression). Now that my head is clear from all the drug abuse I was able to get more out of therapy so I'm doing so much better now. I think exorphin asked, have you tried therapy? PTSD is usually something that requires that kind of therapy to treat it successfully.

Lastly, I've been on this forum for 2.5 years and I've never seen anyone here that went on suboxone for anxiety or PTSD. One guy came here who wanted to go on it for depression, but he disappeared a long time ago.

I know you'll get lots more responses though, just be patient. Whatever you decide, I hope you get some results soon.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:52 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:04 am
Posts: 5
hatmaker510
I tried specific therapies for ptsd like emdr , and cognitive behavioral therapy (cbt) , and i am seeing a psychologist once a week for allmost one year. but unfortunately 0 results.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:12 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:43 am
Posts: 893
Location: AZ
Hi, I am very sorry you feel so bad. I agree that I do not think opiates will help with anxiety and even if they did you will eventually wind up in the same place as with benzos. Opiates create tolerance just the same and you will require more and more to get the same affect. The calming euphoria (which is different for everyone) you describe would only last a couple weeks on sub, once your body adjusts and your tolerance is built you will just feel normal so even if the euphoria helped it would only for a few weeks at most. Now I only bring this up because you sound desperate and am not sure it is medically legal where you live but have you tried marijuana? It has been shown to help anxiety and is much safer than opiates and you will not become dependant on it. Just a thought, everyone is entitled to their opinions but I understand you are miserable and desperate. I am not offended by your actions whatsoever. I am sure most people here faked or lied about the severity of their pain to their Dr.s at one time or another. So I am not judging you nor do I think what you did was so crazy. You are a desperate person at the end of your rope and that can lead anybody to making bad decisions. I really hope you find some relief but I fear if you try sub all you will wind up with is another problem that will worsen your anxiety.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:31 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:44 am
Posts: 88
Location: NWNJ
I completely agree with Breezy and thought to mention Marijuana myself but didnt want to advocate another drug.LOL.I think that may be your magic bullet.LOL.

_________________
I just want to get the monkey off of my back for good!!


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:56 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4847
Location: Leesburg, FL
I've been sitting here thinking about your situation. I've also been reading old posts of Dr. Junig's.

How long were you on benzos? When were you last on them? Were you struggling with benzo withdrawals? This is from one of his blog posts from 2008 (http://suboxonetalkzone.wordpress.com/2 ... ion-story/):

Quote:
Xanax has been addressed in other notes. It is a bad med for many reasons (as are all of the benzos); the tolerance results in ever-increasing dosages; the withdrawal consists of severe anxiety, which patients mistake for an anxiety disorder; it is very hard to get off of; benzos interfere with cognition in people who often have ADD; benzos ‘fire up’ the addictive pathways in the brain, and finally, opiate addicts tend to focus too much on how their bodies ‘feel’, and it is important that they learn to direct their attention ‘outward’… but benzos reinforce paying attention to physical feelings. People on benzos long-term tend to get worse and worse, as they become more and more tolerant to benzos: after each dosing cycle the anxiety returns, fueled by benzo withdrawal… the anxiety becomes more and more the center of their attention… benzos cause their sleep to fall apart… and eventually you have a big mess.


I thought I'd post this on the off chance that maybe this could be part of the problem? You don't have to talk about this if you don't want to, but I wanted to give you something to think about. I just feel for you and I guess I wish I had something more helpful to say or offer.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:09 am 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:09 am
Posts: 104
From personal experience, it's crazy to use any type of opiate to deal with your anxiety issue. All it will do is cover up the underlying problem. PTSD and OCD anxiety disorders are best dealt with by using CBT. I'm sure you've heard this before, but you need to confront whatever is causing your PTSD in the first place. Benzos are fine to start with, but are not the best med for your disorder. If you're not getting help from your therapist, change to another one. You need to deal with whatever is causing your PTSD. It's not something you can put on the back-burner for the rest of your life. Unfortunatly, I have a friend who self-medicates because of being molested as a chid, and his brain is always in a fog as a result. And once on Subs, the "high" goes away in a couple weeks, max. Then you'll be looking for something stronger, which will put you in the same place all of us have been in before getting onto Subs to stop our addiction. You're working ass-backwards. As for pot, I have no problems with it, but it will still be masking your problem.
As for Dr.J's blanket statement about Xanax being a bad med, I've been taking Xanax for 13 years with absolutely not tolerance build up, and still get the same theraputic effects I got when first put on it. Let's not forget, everyone responds to meds differently. Xanax was the last med my doctor put me on when everything else failed. Sure it's habit-forming, but so is my morning cup of coffee, (no, I'm not saying the w/drawals are similar). After years of taking the same dose at the same time of day, it just became part of my routine. It has helped me greatly with my GAD, Panic disorder and Social phobia, but benzos don't seem to be the way to go when it comes to PTSD ot OCD. And opiates definately are not the way to deal with anxiety.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:30 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:59 pm
Posts: 1053
I totally agree w/ Hat. Did you recently stop or cut way back on benzos? The symptoms you are describing sound like benzo withdrawal, which I understand is a nightmare. A large benzo habit has to be taperd off over a year or more.

Also, I read recently about a new PTSD treatment, where under a doctors care you relive the traumatic experience while under the influence of a medication (I forget what it is) and it changes the way you store the experience in your memory. If you have tried everything else you might want to look into this.

Another thought, if you have been through all meds, meditation, therapy, etc, and nothing has worked maybe you need inpatient hospitalization (not a bad idea for benzo WD either). I know that can be very expensive and I don't know if you have insurance but if you do, would consider it.

Unfortunately, Sub isn't going to help you, and in fact, it says in the prescribing literature that fatal overdoses have been reported in opiate naive people taking a dose of as little as 2mg. So please quit while you're ahead.
I wish you the best,
Lilly


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:37 pm 
Offline
New Poster
New Poster

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:28 pm
Posts: 2
I gotta say so many of you are completely wrong. Suboxone stopped my lifelong severe anxiety with panic attacks. Nothing else in my 12 years of med searching has worked half as well as suboxone in completely eliminating my anxiety symptoms. It also has little side effect , certainly not as severe side effects as benzodiazepines. I am thankful suboxone was available for me and now only fear being cut off since I've been on it for few years already and it's considered only a maintenance drug. The originator of this post is very wise and very correct!

_________________
[color=#00BFBF]thebeststanton[/color][color=#4080BF]jlc[/color]


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:12 pm 
Offline
New Poster
New Poster

Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:06 pm
Posts: 3
Suboxone helped my severe anxiety as well. I wouldn't go as far to say everyone who responded is wrong as the previous poster but rather severely misinformed.

I can't believe so many dissuading the OP from using suboxone for his personal reasons because it didn't work for them or it exasperated their own symptoms.

I would dissuade OP from continuing down this path simply because he is doing it without medical assistance asking strangers on a forum how much he should take. You need to get a doctor to help you and I hope by now you are feeling better.

Also it is impossible to OD on suboxone look it up before you answer next time....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:17 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:34 pm
Posts: 614
I"m unclear whether those who find bupe an effective anxiolytic are taking it after a period of opiate addiction. I assume they are. I too have severe anxiety and am about to jump to bupe, so that would be a nice hope for me, that it might help my sometimes terrible anxiety.

I have great sympathy for the OP. He's suffering to the point where it's damaging his health, and there aren't a lot of great long term options if antidepressants don't work. Benzos work great of course...but only for a while....unless you've got iron will power and are able to use them just a few times a week. If OP can't find a doctor to help him, I think it's then right and proper he take matters into his own hands given his level of suffering, although I would take the time and effort to learn as much as possible about any drug before actually trying it.

Incidentally I also find opiates effective against for anxiety...don't most people?.....but of course like benzos, they eventually cause more trouble for the user than he had when he started.

I have this fantasy that one day some genius will develop an opioid that doesn't cause tolerance. It's very likely not possible given the way they brain works, but what a boon to mankind that would be. I have a chronic illness and live with much pain. I too took matter into my own hands and got my life back for half a dozen years before tolerance kicked into the extent the drug wasn't very effective any longer. But even after 12 years it still works to some extent, and works very decently if I take lower doses for a few days to lower my tolerance then go back to a higher dose. Not perfect by any means, and ultimately not worth it anymore give the expense and risk of using illegal narcotics.

I'm a passionate libertarian We all have the right to put what we want into our own bodies....and a responsibility to ourselves it seems to me to understand all the risks before doing so.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group