It is currently Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:54 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:00 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:02 pm
Posts: 1342
Location: West Tennessee
Hi HG,

I find this topic incredibly interesting. I think it was about 2 years ago when I saw the first post from a member who was taking subs for TR depression. I was very on the fence about it at first. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that it wasn't such a bad idea. I don't think it's the answer for most people. But for those who are years into severe depression that hasn't been relieved with other treatments, and especially those who are suicidal, I think it's a great option. Obviously I think it needs to be done with a huge amount of research, and only after being fully aware of the dependency that is sure to follow long term use. But, I see no reason the drug should be denied to these patients when the possibility is there to improve their life so drastically.

I am still curious how this is going to work long term. The member I am referring to had great results and posted for about a year. But we haven't heard from her in awhile now. I guess the jury is still out for it's long term effectiveness to some extent, but I fully support the right of a patient to use it in this manner. I totally agree with what you said above about doing what you have to do. I don't blame you a bit for lying, the medical community hasn't given you much choice in the matter.

I think the US will eventually catch up with the rest of the world on this one, but it won't be anytime soon. It's great that you have found a way to work around the red tape.

Q

_________________
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. ~ Eleanor Roosevelt


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:44 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:15 pm
Posts: 2302
Location: Tennessee
I don't know much about this topic personally, and the only major depression I have is from being a long term opiate abuser. But if I had severe depression with nothing to relieve it and bupe helped, u better believe I would lie to be treated....absolutely. Depression in all forms is just so crippling and anything that helps I'm all for. I can def see how bupe would possibly help depression. I wish u lots of luck and success in this and hope that the medical community will look at this option with an open mind.

_________________
Jennifer


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:07 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:15 pm
Posts: 5
it has worked for a little over a year. I have my fingers crossed. I am also realistic and worry that it could stop working at anytime. That was my experience with SSRi's----worked great for 4 or 5 years then quit working. They also had horrible sexual side effects which I only tolerated because I had no other choice. For someone to choose impotence and functional sanity over depression shows just how horrible depression is. Had to sacrifice some peek sexual yrs. for survival. No one should have to make this choice. This made me very, very sad. But not clinically depressed. Sadness and depression are commonly used as synonyms. And they ARE very much the same, except in regard to major, severe depression ---the disease. Sometimes I think that clinical depression would be better served if it had a different name. Too often people feel emboldened to say : "hey, I've been really sad/depressed but I got over it. Those people who take anti-depressants are just weak."-----------Oh well, fortunately, no sex side effects with very low dose Suboxone. I gather it can effect some people's libido at higher doses. Doses often used when starting opiate/opioid dependent patients.
ALKS-5461 has been fast tracked for FDA approval because of its amazing effectiveness for depression. Anyone interested in this issue who doesn't already know about this "new" drug should look it up. It is being touted as the next big thing in AD treatment. And all it is (I am repeating myself now I know...sorry) ---is buprenorphine mixed with a molecule that takes away bupes ability to bind to the receptors (the mu receptors) that make people feel euphoric. It is all about kappa receptor ANtagonism. I believe ALKS-5461(it hasn't been formally named yet) will quickly become one of the most used drugs in depression treatment. If not by itself, in combination with currently available treatments. My point being, it won't be a small percentage of depression sufferers who will find buprenorphine to be the best choice for them. I believe a majority will choose it because of its rapid effectiveness and for its practically non-existent side-effect profile. I certainly could be totally wrong on that point. And, knowing the FDA, it may never reach the market!? Perhaps something even better will come along? I welcome anything and everything that works for those who are suffering!!!! I do not care if my prediction is right or wrong, only that people are given access to whatever is available that works for them.--------

Wishing extreme happiness to all!!!!!! HG


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:12 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:15 pm
Posts: 5
And thanks to all for your responses and statements of support!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:14 am 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:13 pm
Posts: 100
When I first took subutex at around 3 mg I felt great! Not high just normal and in a good mood. However I tapered down only 1 mg maybe a little more I am now taking about 1.75 mg a day and it's having the opposit effect. I am feeling depressed more than ever and want to sleep all day. I don't know what happened... In the beginning I couldn't sleep 7 months later that all I can do. I also take Paxil but I've taken that for 10 years... I had to lower my dose because of my stomach issues which has caused me sever stress and pain a dim sure added to the depression. Anyway I wish the mood lasted as it was the most "normal " I felt in years even before taking opiates.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:06 pm 
Offline
3 Months or More
3 Months or More

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:49 pm
Posts: 92
hglee27 wrote:
I could easily become a drug addict in order to get suboxone, but I only WANT to try a small dose for depression! It may not work for me? However, after years of suffering, I believe that I deserve the same respect given to pain pill addicts.---I challenge ANYONE to argue that taking 1mg of suboxone a day could possibly be worse for me & my body than taking my current combination of 80mg fluoxetine, 6mg Klonopin & 30 mg Adderall XR(a schedule II drug!) daily. This combo currently allows me to just make it through life. A pitifull way to exist.-------If someone knows of a Dr. or a "way" to be prescribed low dose buprenorphine,....please contact me!!! I will be forever in your debt.----Thanks.....peace & love to all...


I always suspected that my need for opiates of any kind, even after my tolerance built up, was because they made me feel so normal.. Not necessarily euphoric - just interested in life, in other people, in something besides lying in bed all day. Some people feel that way as the norm - and likely, most of them don't ever turn to drugs. But if someone is truly depressed, and has gotten no benefit from other meds or treatments, then who cares if they take an opioid that gives them relief? Likely they will be on it for life, anyway, and won't have to worry about WD. The stigma surrounding these meds is the problem - making them harder to get, making us embarrassed to ask for them, etc etc. In the past dozen years or so, all we've been hearing is how addiction is a disease....but society, including the medical community, still looks down on addicts - many of whom start out doing nothing more than self medicating for conditions like depression. I'm all for bupe for depression. yes, it's addictive - but if it changes your life when nothing else will, it's worth it. And it's safer and less toxic than the majority of medications out there, including antidepressants.

I just read that an opiate based antidepressant is in the works. I hope so!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:15 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 4:09 pm
Posts: 10
Suboxone (and all opiates I took) helped my depression (as well as my social anxiety) enormously but I don't know if for the best reasons. It just made me feel good but once I stopped everything came back. I'm sure your doctor is best to talk about this but I'd be careful for the long run effects it may have since it won't fix the issue causing depression.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:23 pm 
Offline
3 Months or More
3 Months or More

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:49 pm
Posts: 92
laughandlovet wrote:
Suboxone (and all opiates I took) helped my depression (as well as my social anxiety) enormously but I don't know if for the best reasons. It just made me feel good but once I stopped everything came back. I'm sure your doctor is best to talk about this but I'd be careful for the long run effects it may have since it won't fix the issue causing depression.


If the depression is caused by lack of those feel good chemicals in the brain, one may have to go on and stay on these meds. All the therapy in the world can't fix deficient chemistry in the brain.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:02 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 am
Posts: 4133
laughandlovet wrote:
Suboxone (and all opiates I took) helped my depression (as well as my social anxiety) enormously but I don't know if for the best reasons. It just made me feel good but once I stopped everything came back. I'm sure your doctor is best to talk about this but I'd be careful for the long run effects it may have since it won't fix the issue causing depression.


I don't know. I think that a lot of depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. If a low level of partial agonist opiate is what brings someone out of depression, I would argue that the medication IS fixing the issue causing depression. When my young son was depressed at 8 years old, psychotherapy with a child psychologist was all he needed. However if it's ever debilitating for him, I would try every medication out there to help my depressed child. He wasn't depressed because of a trauma or a loss. His brain was just out of whack chemically. Do you know what I mean?

Amy

_________________
Done is better than perfect!


Top
 Profile  
 
   
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:07 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:02 pm
Posts: 1002
I have my reservations. It sounds eerily reminscent of the "opium cure". Back in the turn of the century (1900), long before lithium was even discovered, psychiatry went through a phase of prescribing opium to the institutionalised for pretty much every psychiatric disorder, with seemingly impressive results. Psychosis, depression, mania, anxiety. You name it, it worked for it. That is until the patients became tolerant to its effects, and needed increasingly higher doses to keep their psychiatric symptoms at bay. Eventually the doctors discovered the treatment stopped working, only now the patients were addicted to opium on top of their pre-existing problems. That's the reason opiates were abandoned by psychiatry a long time ago.

Is history repeating itself?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:10 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 am
Posts: 4133
Back then the science wasn't available to say why people suffered from depression. Yes, I would say there is a parallel between "doctors" back then hawking opium to make money and pharmaceutical companies who make that their main consideration today.

The difference is that today we know that some people can lack the normal amount of the neurotransmitter dopamine. We also know that opiates bind to the mu receptor causing more dopamine to be available for binding. This may make up for a lack of dopamine.

You've a very complicated case of co-occuring substance abuse and mental illness, TJ, which many physicians have tried to solve partially with medications. Now you are completely off all meds, yes? I'm sure that your history has influenced your perception of using psychiatric medications to solve mental disorders. I am influenced by having a positive experience with bupe and a very scary experience when my son went through depression. But I'm also influenced by the science I've read in my psychopharmacology class. I'm certainly no expert. What I have learned though, is that different people react very differently to the same drug. I think that it's possible to have bupe be a bad choice for depression in one person, but a good choice for someone else.

I'm glad you stopped by and I hope you're well! :)

Amy

P.S. I'm suggesting that bupe may be appropriate for treating depression in some people, in part because it resists tolerance.

_________________
Done is better than perfect!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:58 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:14 pm
Posts: 11
Hi all,

I'd just like to draw your attention to my thread about this

never-recovering-t11809.html

Please take a look and let me have your thought?

My very amateurish synopsis is this

- buorenoprhine calms down the kappa receptor by design. It appears that ANYONE with depression has an overactive Kappa system, hence why Bupe makes them feel better.

- I'm not sure if this is right, but it's just my own assumption; Bupe raises Serotonin levels. When taking an SSRI alongside Bupe, Bupe supplies the serotonin release, and the SSRI keeps it there

This could be why SSRI's on their own aren't effective for some. IE they're not naturally releasing enough serotonin to begin with.....

Anyway, just my own thoughts.

Does anyone else have similar thoughts or views on how it helps?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:43 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator

Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 9:58 am
Posts: 882
This is a fascinating topic for me! I started experiencing depression with menopause. I started playing around with opiates and the depression was gone but opiate addiction in full effect! Then suboxone. Opiate addiction and depression in remission! I am a social worker and have worked with people who are dealing with addiction and depression for 30 years. What I have learned is that everyone is different. Different combinations of medications work differently too. To me, the most difficult part to deal with is the time it can take for the meds to kick in. Why cant they make an anti depressant that works immediately? I say this all the time...anyone dealing with depression is my hero!


Top
 Profile  
 
   
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:21 pm 
Offline
New Poster
New Poster

Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:05 pm
Posts: 3
I have been depressed since I was a child, now in my late 40s I have been disabled by it. For my whole life I worked through it, college, military, great job, but always miserable,to the point I had to be periodically hospitalized. Still I survived it until 4 years ago it hit the fan. Multiple deaths in my family including a suicide, combined with having to lay off employees and working 80 hours a week I lost it. OK, all said and done I have been through 20 different prescriptions and nothing worked to date. I had a stomach surgery over a year ago they gave me percocet and after 2 days I felt alive, not high, (take it with a grain of salt since I have never been high per say, drunk a few times in college for sure)functioning, not over eating, getting everything done, no obsessing and more. Immediately I started taking 1 pill a day instead if three and I broke that one pill into 2. It lasted me 3 weeks and I was the happiest ever. Anyway it ended and back to the normal crapola. So my research has brought me here. I just got a new doc today and I told him everything, I just have a feeling he is like most psychs, not open to anything, nothing new, etc. It's like do I have to go say I am a drug addict just to try something new. Ugh, I swear so m any doctors never read anything new. My life is so derailed I feel like jumping off a bridge and not from depression more from frustration over uninformed doctors.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:43 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:35 am
Posts: 2801
Location: Southwest
Hi winklers,

That is a horrible story you told. Have you ever had a hormone panel done to see if that may be contributing to your mental state? Just a thought. My wife suffered from both depression and a messed up hormone system that brought on panic attacks and anxiety. She is now on Paxil and a hormone cream that leveled her out and now she's fine. You need to go to a professional who knows what to look for on the panel. Many OB/Gyns wrote her off saying it was all in her mind until a team of nurses told her that her hormones were completely out of whack. Once she got the cream it balanced her system out.

Just my 2¢ worth,

rule

_________________
Don't take yourself so damn seriously


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:26 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:03 am
Posts: 11
The neurochemical hypothesis of depression ala "Listening to Prozac" doesn't seem to be working out very well. (I'd suggest reading Kirsch's "The Emperor's New Drugs," which isn't as depressing as it sounds.)

That said, the best theory on depression I've read lately is the idea that depression has three dimensions:

1. Capacity to enjoy life. Usually expressed as the capacity to anticipate feeling good. Anatomically, the "reward center" in the nucleus accumbens is where the action is. Chemically it comes down to dopamine.
2. Ability to think. This is not anatomically localized. Chemically we tend to focus on the NMDA receptor.
3. General energy level, aka "arousal." Anatomically I think of this as a brainstem function, although the body and the environment play key roles. Chemically we tend to think of adrenaline (or, when found in the brain, norepinephrine).

This is a narrative, not a fact, but perhaps not a bad conceptual framework for some purposes. Works OK as long as you understand that no brain chemical is "responsible" for any particular function, that no drug affects just one system, and that one should't assume that the brain necessarily precedes the mind.

Theory is, depression results from low levels of all three: anhedonia (inability to imagine feeling good), can't think straight, low energy. That describes some of us, but not all of us. You can have agitated depression where you have high energy and can't sleep, and also can't think and can't enjoy life. If you're an addict, you can be able to think just fine (in fact you might seek to dial that back sometimes) yet have anhedonia and low energy, and feel depressed as a result. If you're bipolar, all three things may vary independently. That's in part why there is no "magic bullet" for depression.

To date, the drugs we use for depression seem to affect NMDA as much as anything. Yet the sine qua non of depression (according to theory) is a defect in the reward system. In this respect, depression and addiction have a common origin. And we don't really have much in the way of legal, generally accepted meds that get at the reward system. It's not even clear that "we," as a society, have any interest in developing such meds. We say that any attempt to influence limbic dopamine is addiction per se.

What's the difference between a drug and a medicine? We say that "drugs" are chemicals that are only ever bad; and in the case of, say, cocaine or a straight mu agonist, that's a good bet. Does it then follow that "medicines" are chemicals that are only ever good? Buprenorphine can go either way, and "we" aren't comfortable with that ambiguity, and we seek chemicals that basically can't be used as "drugs." So don't hold your breath waiting for bup to be approved for depression; that's just not how we roll. Frankly I'm amazed Welbutrin made the cut.

Sad thing is, in our search for clarity, we've lost sight of the thing itself. Prozac doesn't frequently, or even usually get at the heart of the matter. When we say it does, we are deluding ourselves (which is the point of Kirsch's book.) Same could be said for Chantix, or Vivitrol. One suspects the same will prove true of the straight kappa antagonists that are currently being vetted for depression.

This speaks to something we knew once, and seem to have forgotten. A drug is a delusion; a medicine is a key that unlocks a door. The FDA isn't going to guide you down that path; that's between you and your healer. Me, I was never quick to judge when a trauma survivor or a depressed person or someone with fibromyalgia thought it might be best to stay on a couple milligrams of buprenorphine for the time being. As long as they aren't actively self-destructing -- they are making money, getting laid, staying out of jail -- it's all good. There's good news and bad news in there. Bad news is, no chemical ever changed anything. Good news is, we weren't built to be slaves, to biology or anything else.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:46 pm 
Offline
New Poster
New Poster

Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:05 pm
Posts: 3
It easily could be related. I was actually on hormones prior to this last big issue. Trying to get everything straight, but I have noticed that whenever I have had any additional hormones added or elevated through pills, creams or injections it just makes me even more unstable. For me I think it contributed to messed up noggin before I was put out of work. I seem to do better with the lack of any hormones or emotions I hate to say. I think that's why I am reaching for those few weeks of happiness I had after my stomach surgery. I don't think most people they realize what feeling happy is since they normally feel the emotion. It's like a rich person not knowing how much they have. For me it was like possibly a blind person being able to see. I mean cripes when I was a kid I would sit under the dining room table and just smash my head against it for hours. Yeah pretty cooky I know. How I became an engineer with a 100k job is beyond even my own comprehension considering how many brain cells I must have lost. Last time I think I was even close to that happy was when I was in the Marines riding my motorcycle out by Palm Springs on freeway. The relief of the depression, anxiety, anger, fear and having some energy I am not sure I will ever feel again. Maybe I need another surgery, lol. Wait I feel a cramp coming on.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:15 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:02 pm
Posts: 1002
You could have sold that post for 50c a word to TheFix or something. A good read!

Agreed re SSRI's not holding the answer. Doctors are just now starting to acknowledge that depression is more complex than just a deficiency of serotonin. There are whole cascading brain circuits involved. However this new hypothesis that "SSRI's eventually stop working so dopamine must be the cause" is equally short-sighted IMO. Only once doctors discover this, their patients may be dependent on opioids, which obviously has more ramifications to come off than SSRI/SNRI medications.

But traditional anti-depressants do work wonders for many people. They stay on them for life, and their improvement to functioning is long lasting. However in those of us whose depressions have their roots in a bipolar disorder, anti-depressants can cause significant problems. Psychiatry is still arguing as to whether SSRI's should be prescribed AT ALL for bipolar related conditions.

At this point in the history of medicine, I don't think anyone knows enough about the brain to say one way or the other. And the field of psychiatry as a whole is quite sensitive about what they don't know, in my experience.

DrDave wrote:
The neurochemical hypothesis of depression ala "Listening to Prozac" doesn't seem to be working out very well. (I'd suggest reading Kirsch's "The Emperor's New Drugs," which isn't as depressing as it sounds.)

That said, the best theory on depression I've read lately is the idea that depression has three dimensions:

1. Capacity to enjoy life. Usually expressed as the capacity to anticipate feeling good. Anatomically, the "reward center" in the nucleus accumbens is where the action is. Chemically it comes down to dopamine.
2. Ability to think. This is not anatomically localized. Chemically we tend to focus on the NMDA receptor.
3. General energy level, aka "arousal." Anatomically I think of this as a brainstem function, although the body and the environment play key roles. Chemically we tend to think of adrenaline (or, when found in the brain, norepinephrine).

This is a narrative, not a fact, but perhaps not a bad conceptual framework for some purposes. Works OK as long as you understand that no brain chemical is "responsible" for any particular function, that no drug affects just one system, and that one should't assume that the brain necessarily precedes the mind.

Theory is, depression results from low levels of all three: anhedonia (inability to imagine feeling good), can't think straight, low energy. That describes some of us, but not all of us. You can have agitated depression where you have high energy and can't sleep, and also can't think and can't enjoy life. If you're an addict, you can be able to think just fine (in fact you might seek to dial that back sometimes) yet have anhedonia and low energy, and feel depressed as a result. If you're bipolar, all three things may vary independently. That's in part why there is no "magic bullet" for depression.

To date, the drugs we use for depression seem to affect NMDA as much as anything. Yet the sine qua non of depression (according to theory) is a defect in the reward system. In this respect, depression and addiction have a common origin. And we don't really have much in the way of legal, generally accepted meds that get at the reward system. It's not even clear that "we," as a society, have any interest in developing such meds. We say that any attempt to influence limbic dopamine is addiction per se.

What's the difference between a drug and a medicine? We say that "drugs" are chemicals that are only ever bad; and in the case of, say, cocaine or a straight mu agonist, that's a good bet. Does it then follow that "medicines" are chemicals that are only ever good? Buprenorphine can go either way, and "we" aren't comfortable with that ambiguity, and we seek chemicals that basically can't be used as "drugs." So don't hold your breath waiting for bup to be approved for depression; that's just not how we roll. Frankly I'm amazed Welbutrin made the cut.

Sad thing is, in our search for clarity, we've lost sight of the thing itself. Prozac doesn't frequently, or even usually get at the heart of the matter. When we say it does, we are deluding ourselves (which is the point of Kirsch's book.) Same could be said for Chantix, or Vivitrol. One suspects the same will prove true of the straight kappa antagonists that are currently being vetted for depression.

This speaks to something we knew once, and seem to have forgotten. A drug is a delusion; a medicine is a key that unlocks a door. The FDA isn't going to guide you down that path; that's between you and your healer. Me, I was never quick to judge when a trauma survivor or a depressed person or someone with fibromyalgia thought it might be best to stay on a couple milligrams of buprenorphine for the time being. As long as they aren't actively self-destructing -- they are making money, getting laid, staying out of jail -- it's all good. There's good news and bad news in there. Bad news is, no chemical ever changed anything. Good news is, we weren't built to be slaves, to biology or anything else.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:06 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:25 pm
Posts: 19
Off label, I find the buprenorphine renders my type II bipolar disorder symptoms almost non-existent. I'm prescribed for opioid addiction maintenance, though it would be hard to argue that the addiction itself is not itself symptomatic of that disorder. All the same, unless I am running out--which, sadly I am right now--my mood is generally very balanced and pleasant. Prior, I was known for extreme spending sprees, heavy drinking and terrible mood swings.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:56 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:17 pm
Posts: 8
Hello I take suboxone for addiction. I'm wondering if staying on it is really a good decision but i my self think it is. For depression it works wonders I am not depressed at all being on it!!! For addiction it curves my cravings and is very useful tool. If you ever need to get off look into this legal online plant called kratom got off suboxone 2 times with 0 withdrawal cuz of this plant!!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group