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 Post subject: my subutex birth
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:56 pm 
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Well I both feel obligated to share and need support right now...I have birth to my son on 10/30... Since I was only taking 2mg or less for most of pregnancy I was not prepared for withdrawals...I thought he would be fine....which of course in the end he will be fine but he has been in nicu since 11/1 and I have no idea when he can come home...with his dose and the weaning schedule we r looking at the weekend and that is being optimistic... I live over and hour from the hospital and have 2 girls ages 6 & 4 so I can't be there all the time...it hurts my heart so bad that I am missing the first week of his life...being at the hospital makes me happy to be with him but also drives me a little insane because I can do nothing now to help...I made this bed and now have to lie in it,...so much guilt... I don't know how other babies made it without withdrawal... I thought honesty was the best policy but now wondering if they didn't know would it have been different... I want to fast forward time and not think about it....feel like I am abandoning him.... I feel crazy!!!


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 Post subject: Re: my subutex birth
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:44 am 
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I know you're feeling awful right now, but I want to remind you that there are lots of circumstances that put a baby in a NICU the first week/s of their lives. Most of these reasons are unforeseeable and couldn't have been changed by the parents. You did everything right to stay off the really dangerous drugs that could hurt your baby! And there is a huge difference in the percentage of babies who go through NAS whose moms take morphine or heroin than those whose moms take subutex! The difference in the study I saw was 82% of infants of the former and 21% of the infants of the latter! You did what you could reasonably do to give your baby the best possible chance to avoid NAS!

You can't help but be a mess of hormones right now! You just gave birth and now you have the stress of not bringing your baby home right away. You cannot tear yourself up about being honest about being on sub! It was the right thing to do! Whether or not the medical staff scored your baby unfairly is out of your hands and not your fault. Please cut yourself some slack! Stress isn't going to help you right now! In a few weeks this will seem like a bad dream. Keep your chin up!

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: my subutex birth
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:59 pm 
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Thank u Amy...I keep telling myself this is temporary... it just seems like when he has a few good scores they have to throw a high one in there so as not to wean him...I am surely being selfish as I truly don't want him to suffer...it just seems like every 24 hours is an eternity... Thank u so much for responding... I will be headed to the hospital today and stay for the night is the plan...as all new moms I just want him home...this will be my last baby and it feels like I am missing so much!!!


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 Post subject: Re: my subutex birth
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:44 pm 
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I don't want to bad mouth hospitals or their staff. I do however want to tell you my experience. I had a baby girl in 2012 and was on sub during my whole pregnancy. I didn't tell the dr.s. For some reason they drug tested me after delivering her. I was clean. They then drug tested the babies miconium (sp?)- the first poop- and found traces of sub. They found it as i was signing discharge papers for me and baby! Then suddenly they started 'noticing withdrawal symptoms' and put my baby in the nicu! They started pumping her with morphine and it took 2 weeks to Wean her off! Luckily my husband had taken off a few weeks to be with baby so he stayed home with my other kids so i never had to leave baby's side. I had to lie to my family about why the baby was in there because i was ashamed. So when i got pregnant again and had another girl in december of 2013- i made a choice not to tell them about sub. I know it was wrong but guess what! My baby went home with me after 2 days and was and is perfectly healthy.


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 Post subject: Re: my subutex birth
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:52 pm 
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Oops i posted before i was done. Anyway- my youngest baby never had any withdrawal symptoms. And yes- i was on the same amount of sub throughout both pregnancies. But since they knew i was on sub with the older baby it was like they considered a little fussiness and Colic withdrawal symptoms! Funny that they didn't notice anything wrong in the 48 hours before they found out. I was very upset because i feel like they unnecessarily pumped my baby with morphine. I feel what you're going thru and my heart goes out to you and your baby. Congrats by the way! It'll be over before you know it and it'll be just a faded memory. My baby is now 2 and i put all that stress from her nicu stay behind us. You're a good mommy. Keep your head up!


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 Post subject: Re: my subutex birth
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:32 pm 
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Thank u for replying jackiefern...that is how I feel...they were determined to find withdrawal symptoms...my husband seems to think it is so they can have the research stats...I gave birth at University of Tennessee hospital... right now I just need support trying to balance my 2 kids and the baby and knowing I am losing maternity leave time...precious time with him


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 Post subject: Re: my subutex birth
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:44 pm 
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Thanks to all who read and replied... please continue to think positively of my little boy...he is doing really well..still in NICU but we have plans for a Sunday discharge... he should be coming off of morphine tmrw...I still feel guilty and now also because I am still on subutex...he is weaning off so why shouldn't I....it is crazy the way our minds think...I am so thankful he is almost through this...May the Lord see him through to the end of this on Sunday and of course, through the rest of his days. Thank u


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 Post subject: Re: my subutex birth
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:18 am 
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The reason he is coming off medication while you are staying on is because you're an addict and he is not! If I could forbid you to feel guilty, I would!!!

I'm thankful on your behalf that there is an end in sight to his hospitalization. But, as every parent knows, the hard part is yet to come. You need to be able to bring your A game to parenting, and you can't do that if you're in active addiction. You should stay on maintenance until you know you're ready to taper off. If you're never ready to taper off you're still doing the right thing by maintaining a stable and productive life. Please don't discount your addiction. Treat it!

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: my subutex birth
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:35 pm 
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Oh I never should have read this post, but at the same time, I want to be 100% prepared. I've been thru this before, 2005 & 2012, but it doesn't get easier!

When I had my baby in 2012, I told the ob on my first apt that I was taking suboxone (switched to subutex by my psychiatrist). They were pretty clueless, but basically said its "that medicine that's like methadone". I told them that I planned on tapering off (as I was required to do back in 2005). They never again asked me about it, so I never said a word. Even at the hospital in L&D, I did not mention it when I told them what medicines I took. I was only taking 0.5mg for the last several weeks of my pregnancy. I tried to taper off completely but couldn't. Anyway, the anxiety and guilt that I felt in the hospital was overwhelming. I almost fainted during a panic attack when they took my son for his circumcision- he was supposed to be back after 45 mins, and after almost 2 hours, I was sure someone had found out and they were never going to bring him back. He was fussy at night and wouldn't nurse at first; he sneezed 4-5x in a rox a few times during those 2 days. I was beside myself with worry but when we got discharged, we both were a lot more comfortable. I felt lik I could breathe again and my anxiety finally faded away. I was able to relax and he nursed like a champ (for a whole year!) and slept for hours at a time between feedings at night since the first night home. He was by far my easiest baby so far (I have 2 kids, 9yrs & 13 yrs old). The pediatrician saw him at 3 & 5 days old for a weight check, and said he was in perfect health. I cant help but worry that if I had been honest with the hospital when I was admitted, they would have seen NAS those first days, and medicated him when all he needed was to be home in a dark, quiet, comfortable environment, breastfeeding on demand, and swaddled with pacifier while he slept.

My current (and FINAL) pregnancy has been the same, except the ob docs have been paying more attention. One asked me how long my son was held in the NICU for observation in 2012, and I told him that he wasn't; he said he'd make sure that he talked to the pediatricians about that. I'm terrified, but realize that once baby is born, the ob-gyn isn't in charge, so it what I tell the hospital staff that will decide things for me.

I realize that honesty is best for my baby to get the best possible care; but after reading so many horror stories, I cant help but fear that my baby will be automatically sent to a bigger hospital or medicated unnecessarily if I tell the truth. I discontinued my taper at 1/3mg because I just couldn't stand it anymore; I've also read Dr. JJ's advice on the subject, and decided to go back up to a comfortable dose 0.5-0.75mg where I think I should stay. (My prescribing doc suggests NOT to taper, but also says to do whatever I want). Should I just say I finished my taper at the hospital? Bible Belt USA is notorious for discrimination, I feel like nurses would for sure score my baby prejudicially. I'm truly terrified, but I'm thankful for this forum to turn to for support!

Jamie B

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 Post subject: Re: my subutex birth
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:07 pm 
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Although I completely agree with you about how judgemental and prejudiced some so called medical professionals can be, especially in this part of the country, once they find out mom is taking buprenorphine; imo, you should be honest with them about taking bupe. If your baby does happen to have NAS, it would insure that he/she gets the needed treatment, and because of you don't disclose about it, you could possibly wind up having a visit from CPS, if your baby tests positive for it. Although, since you have a legal prescription, I doubt you'd get into any trouble, but it would be an unfair inconvenience. At the same time, I'd also demand to be present when your baby's WD symptoms, if any, are scored. If they score high, and you aren't seeing the same symptoms that they are, ask why he's being scored so high. Breastfeed if you can and want to, it's excellent for all babies, but especially for babies with Nas, since the closeness to mom is what's most beneficial and comforting to the baby.

Unfortunately, often, once the nurses find out the mom is on buprenorphine, they see even normal newborn behaviors as signs of NAS, due to ignorance and bias. Is there anyone else who can be with you while you and baby are in the hospital who can also advocate for you and your baby? Someone else who has knowledge about buprenorphine treatment and NAS who can speak on your behalf if you feel you or your baby are being treated unfairly?


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 Post subject: Re: my subutex birth
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:32 pm 
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lizzieshug2013 wrote:
Although I completely agree with you about how judgemental and prejudiced some so called medical professionals can be, especially in this part of the country, once they find out mom is taking buprenorphine; imo, you should be honest with them about taking bupe. If your baby does happen to have NAS, it would insure that he/she gets the needed treatment, and because of you don't disclose about it, you could possibly wind up having a visit from CPS, if your baby tests positive for it. Although, since you have a legal prescription, I doubt you'd get into any trouble, but it would be an unfair inconvenience. At the same time, I'd also demand to be present when your baby's WD symptoms, if any, are scored. If they score high, and you aren't seeing the same symptoms that they are, ask why he's being scored so high. Breastfeed if you can and want to, it's excellent for all babies, but especially for babies with Nas, since the closeness to mom is what's most beneficial and comforting to the baby.

Unfortunately, often, once the nurses find out the mom is on buprenorphine, they see even normal newborn behaviors as signs of NAS, due to ignorance and bias. Is there anyone else who can be with you while you and baby are in the hospital who can also advocate for you and your baby? Someone else who has knowledge about buprenorphine treatment and NAS who can speak on your behalf if you feel you or your baby are being treated unfairly?


I am going to be honest. I cannot live with the anxiety and guilt this time around, and I know is important for my baby to get the best possible care. I literally thought I was going to pass out from the anxiety during my hospital stay with my son in 2012, it was awful!!! Today, I made an appointment to go see a local addiction counselor a week from Thursday. In addition to being a former addict and suboxone patient, he works with local methadone and suboxone treatment centers in the area. I'm hoping he'll be able to give me some information on our local hospital's policy as well as some patients experiences giving birth on subutex. My husband doesn't know or understand anything about buprenorphine, but he'll likely not be back from him deployment until after the baby's born. My Mom who is coming also doesn't know about buprenorphine, so its up to me; but I'll try my best to speak up and try to educate my health professionals if necessary. I've heard other girls printing out buprenorphine in pregnancy medical journal articles and studies so they can present it to doctors if they try to do ignorant things such as not allowing breastfeeding or automatically medicating subutex babies. I breastfed my son (for a year!) and plan on doing the same thing again this time. I hope seeing this counselor will help ease my mind or if he doesn't know the answers, maybe he can refer me to local support services where I can get more information.

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God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.


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 Post subject: Re: my subutex birth
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:57 pm 
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Well Jamie, it sounds like you're doing all the right things for you and your baby. Sometimes just talking about your worries and getting it all out helps so much. I can't imagine what it must be like for no one you love to understand, so I admire you for taking all this upon yourself, and having the added worry of your husband being deployed. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say thank you both for your sacrifices for our country! That shows much strength and character. But try not to feel too stressed or guilty, you are doing the right thing. I hope that you will keep us posted on how you're doing, and how everything goes, and if course just to chat or ask questions. Good luck :)


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 Post subject: Re: my subutex birth
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:36 pm 
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lizzieshug2013 wrote:
Well Jamie, it sounds like you're doing all the right things for you and your baby. Sometimes just talking about your worries and getting it all out helps so much. I can't imagine what it must be like for no one you love to understand, so I admire you for taking all this upon yourself, and having the added worry of your husband being deployed. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say thank you both for your sacrifices for our country! That shows much strength and character. But try not to feel too stressed or guilty, you are doing the right thing. I hope that you will keep us posted on how you're doing, and how everything goes, and if course just to chat or ask questions. Good luck :)


Thanks, Lizzie! I'll post again next week after I meet with the addiction counselor. I feel like he'll be able to ease a lot of my worries and give me advice about out local hospital and its policies. & I posted my story in a facebook group, maybe I'll post it on here too.

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There's no such thing as regret; there's what you do and what you don't do.

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.


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