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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:42 pm 
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Many forum members speak of "stockpiling" or keeping subs stashes for emergencies and later tapers. I wonder if anyone knows how long the subs tablets remain potent? Do they lose their effectiveness after 2-3 yrs? Is there a best way to store for prolonging the time period they will remain effective?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:21 am 
I don't necessarily condone/recommend any of the following:
The "official line" of the pharmacies (and as indicated on the bottle) is that the pills are only good until one year from the date on which they are filled. However, these pills in all likelihood do not expire for at least another three years, and the pharma companies have to be very conservative. Here's some things you can do to preserve the quality of your Suboxone:

1. You can put those little moisture-absorbing drums in each pill container that you have your Subs in. You can get those from other prescription med bottles, or over-the-counter meds (or you could use the "Do Not Eat" moisture-absorb packets that come in the packaging with many products). This is to prevent moisture from damaging the pills, which is probably the biggest threat to their longevity.

2. Place the pill bottle containing Subs into a small ziploc bag to further prevent air exposure.

3. Keep your pills away from all light. Never keep these or any medications exposed to sunlight or household lighting, because light can degrade chemical compounds.

4. Keep the pill bottles in a climate-controlled environment at all times, avoiding temperatures below 62 and above 76 degrees Fehrenheit. If you go without AC in the summer, invest in a small cooler to keep them in. Do not, however, put your Subs in the refridgerator, because that is too cold.

5. Make sure you keep all this where no kids, housepets, or other addicts can get to it.

I don't see a problem with saving up for a rainy day, because to me, if the Sub is prescribed to you and you paid for it, then every pill is legally yours.


Last edited by jdhammond1982 on Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:41 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:47 am 
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"every pill is legally yours" ???? Not exactly... Its illegal to hord your pills. or stockpill them. sorry to bust your bubble but what you are doing is illegal.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:58 am 
it may be legal, it may not, but I don't really see your point. It's not like we're talking about selling them or anything like that. And I don't see how anyone could be prosecuted for having medication that they were prescribed, that they payed for, in their own home. Sure, it's a controlled substance, but do you realize how many tens of millions of people in this country have old opiate prescriptions, probably numbering in the double digits, laying around the house? Are they all going to be charged with hoarding pills?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:22 am 
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First of all I don't think law eforcement in thier fight in the War on Drugs are going around knocking on people's door to see if they are hoarding or stockpiling any of thier legal prescription pills. The comment is off base and the real question is how to keep your medicine fresh. I have heard that a bottle like Excedrin that has the cotton in it is great for keeping the pills fresh. I would say in case the DEA does show up with the Swat team, the dogs, the helicopter and the crew from the TV show cops to count your pills you may want to put the cotton in your legal prescription bottle so there is no question what is in the bottle I think this topic is important becuase of the cost of the medicine is so high I would think you would want to have some self satisfaction that the pills you are saving won't go bad. I know from reading JD's post he will be all right if his doctor suddenly closes shop and he has to go without a doc for awhile. If we are able to take less and save up I think that is a good thing because I have learned alot on this site about being in a jam if your pills get lost, stolen or you run out of money to buy your script. My doc has even given me 5 extra pills to put away in case I run out or am in a bind. I think others will have suggestions and I will be listening. I am not anywhere yet that I am putting away pills other than the ones my doc gave me for emergencies but soon I will be looking at taper and will probably do the same. Good luck........


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:56 pm 
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I don't know if it's illegal or not but doubt if there are any federal laws against not using all prescribed meds. The state level could be a different thing.

I appreciate the thoughts and responses. Since posting this question I read a vague article where the US army did some kind of study and found hundreds of different medications [when stored properly] remained over 90% potent for as long as 15 yrs. I could not find specific drugs and which ones didn't last.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:30 pm 
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I didn't say that you where wrong, or you shouldn't do it. I did't say that they would bust you for it either. You said that they are all legal. I was just letting you know that they arn't. You should of sighned something at the begining of your teatment that says that you understand that. Anyway. i was not saying that you where wrong. I would probably do it to if I could. It wouldn't be right to tell people on this board (that are looking for help), that hording pills is legal cause its not.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:34 pm 
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I should know better than even to jump in here but... Just where would I find this "law" that makes it illegal to keep my old pain medication (or a controlled substance) past the time frame that it would otherwise should have taken me to consume it? I have never heard of such a thing. Even with the recent focus on having people clear out their medicine cabinets to prevent children or others from obtaining old pills. I have just never, ever heard of this law prior to you claiming that it exists. Is this a federal law? Or does it varry from state to state? Please let us know what statute backs up your claims.

Mind you, I'm mostly interested in finding out so I can broaden my knowledge. Not to say that you are incorrect. I just want to make sure that I am correct before I go and provide this information to others.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:50 pm 
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I'm pretty certain it is NOT illegal. Just because you were prescribed a med does not mean you HAVE to take it. HOWEVER, there is an agreement or narcotics contract between you and your doctor and although I do not recall at all what mine said, I do believe I agreed to take the medication as prescribed. My doc always gave me ust enough to get to the next visit. With that being said......I would save mine in the future because of the horror stories of docs getting shut down for too many patients and then being without. Not cool. My town doesn't have a single doc who prescribes so I have to drive 30 miles. If one doc is shut down and there are only 5 in a 30 mile radius I would be screwed.

Cherie


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:34 pm 
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30 miles...........you are very lucky.....I have drive 2 1/2 hours one way. Hopefully more and more doctors will be trained to prescribe this drug. There are so many addicts out there that don't even know about suboxone. I will tell you it is worth it to me to go this far. When I was in active addiction I have driven through a snow storm 4 hours to get my goods......great lengths we go for this disease......As far as the contract thing goes...that is a policy with the Dr. He can certainly kick you out of his practice but I don't think it is some law...but I guess it could be. Just the fact that suboxone is the only controlled substance I have ever taken as prescribed is a miracle in itself. For anyone that knows me...I think they would get me a medal instead of telling me I have broken the law..........for having some left over.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:35 am 
what are you people talking about? I never had to sign a damn thing when I started to see my Sub doctor!

And also, how many days after the initial 30 that I keep my medication does it become illegal? 30 days? 38? 72? 216 days? I think this is a bunch of nonsense. What about if your spouse had cancer, was taking strong painkillers, then dies. Is it illegal for the other spouse to keep the drugs in the house? Happens all the time. There is no way to enforce a law like that either, in any case.

BTW, I'm noticing that the same individual keeps "piping up" and trying to change the subject in a lot of posts by saying anything outlandish he can come up with. Guess I'll just ignore it from now on.
j


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 Post subject: Contract???
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:15 pm 
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I absolutely didn't sign any contract when I came on subs and I get mine thru a federal govt program... VA hosp.

I would guess this is something some dr's probably use to satisfy their med malpractice insurance. I was in the insurance biz [as an examiner] for yrs and our loss control dept was always coming up with gimmicks like this to try and help our insureds keep their claims exposure to a minimum.

Dr's and surgeons now have all kinds of "waiver" forms for patients to sign away their rights to file suit or seek damages, but in reality they aren't worth the paper they are written on... if it can be proved the dr is involved in some type of negligence. Many dr's today are experts at tort law as it applys to their own potential for liability.

It's kinda similar to retail stores putting up "warning signs" near construction/maintenance areas which imply or say something to the effect that... you are entering at your own risk. Yes thats true... you are assuming some risk, but if someone gets hurt on their property... their insurance company will most likely pay!! Even if it's just a cost effective amount to avoid attorney costs.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:28 pm 
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Mine is a narcotics contract....I had to sign one before at a pain clinic. It basically says I will not use other drugs. I will take a drug test upon request... abide to any pill count request..request early refills....etc. and if I violate the terms of the contract I can be kicked out of the practice. I don't think I was asked to sign it just becasue I am on sub. This doctor also runs a pain clinic and I have been there when new patients come in and they had to sign as well. This may be what Irish is talking about....JD I hope you weren't referring to me. If so I will try to stay on point.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:44 pm 
No, ReRaise I was not referring to you at all. In fact, I shouldn't have made a statement criticizing anyone. It was out of line. I'm still working on anger issues, and I guess it shows.
Anyway, people are going to do what they want to do with their Subs. I don't see the harm in explaining how to extend their shelf-life.
j


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:38 pm 
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Ok wow. so maybe its just the contract with the doctor. I'll stop "Piping around". You know I really liked this site, it has offered me a lot of help."esp. with a recent surgery". the people on this site are so judgmental and they "buddy up on others". I thought the point of this forum is to share ideas and spark conversation. don't bother responding cause I won't be back.

BTW. this was the only post that was "off the topic" and quite frankly it wasn't that far off topic.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:55 pm 
Hey Irish, I don't think anyone intended to push you off the forum or offend you in a strong way. In fact, I think JD went out of his way to more or less apologize if he sounded offensive. You're right, this forum is pretty good overall to welcome any and all opinions about any issue we're discussing. Where it seems to go off track from time to time is when a member posts something as if it is "fact" when there really is no data or literature to back up the claim. I think that's the real point that was being made.
I hate that you feel attacked. The reason I didn't post any reply on the subject is simple.....I don't know if it's legal or illegal to 'hoard' medication. It may or may not be ethical depending on what one's ethical standards are, but whether it's outright illegal, I kind of doubt it. Certainly if a prescription is written as "prn" (as needed) there is plenty of leeway in how often you take your meds and how many you may have several left over. Now if your particular physician requires you to sign a contract (as many pain docs do, but certainly not all Subox docs do), one is bound to some degree to abide by that contract or risk being "fired" by their physician.
I think it's important when posting to note whether what you're posting is your opinion, or your understanding or whether it is something that is a well-documented fact
I believe our gut/heart-level intent is to help one another through challenging times and issues and I think we are all pretty good at that. I personally would hate to lose your input and experiences because of a relatively insignificant interaction on this particular thread.
I hope you'll rethink your stand on this and come back!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:29 pm 
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I agree with SetMeFree in that I don't want Irish or anyone else to leave and not come back related to the type of comments that were made. Certainly if someone is purposely causing trouble, being out of line, etc. it might be better if they not hang around. That certainly is not the case with Irish.

Having now said that, the Internet is already a huge breeding ground for misinformation and I personally would like to keep this web site as correct as possible. It doesn't do anyone any good for incorrect information to be shared. Unfortunately, as SetMeFree said, that does sometimes happen. Obviously we all from time to time may write something that we may think is true and accurate when it really is not. However, there are ways to perhaps let readers know that the information being provided is based on a belief or an opinion - rather than make it seem like a hard fact.

Here is word for word what Irish wrote:

1. "Its illegal to horde your pills. or stockpile them. sorry to bust your bubble but what you are doing is illegal."

2. "You said that they [old pills] are all legal. I was just letting you know that they arn't."

3. "It wouldn't be right to tell people on this board (that are looking for help), that hording pills is legal cause its not."

Those seem like very clear and emphatic statements to me. They all seem very strong with a high level of assurance on the part of the writer that they are correct. All we were doing is questioning the validity of those statements. You made them Irish. Now you want to blame the rest of us when we appropriately question them. In the third quote, you say yourself that it would not be right to tell people on this board something that is not correct. Although, you may have done exactly that. And you know what? That sometimes happens. We all make mistakes. Just own up to it, correct it and move on. But to get upset when others attempt to correct some potentially misleading information is perhaps something you need to work on.

I think all that needs to happen is to simply say, hmmmm, perhaps I made a mistake, or hmmmmm, I guess I was wrong about that, and I'll be more careful in the future with making statements seem as if they are hard facts when perhaps I'm not sure they are hard facts. I would much rather have hundreds of people get the correct information than one poster keeps his ego in tact. Honestly I think both can happen. And the end result is correct information gets provided to everyone here that really needs it. To get upset and leave, is pretty sad, as I don't think anyone is suggesting that. However, if that is your choice, just please don't blame us for it. You are still very welcome here.

And for what it's worth, I "Googled" the hell out of this question yesterday and could not find anything to support keeping pills past expiration is against any laws. Of course, with the current direction of our government and our country, who knows what new statutes may be placed into law in the future?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:57 pm 
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Irish......let it go.....give it to your god. I can't tell you the number of times I would get mad at an AA meeting about someone calling me out or diagreeing with me...how dare they...HA! Anyway all that did was casue me to show them...I would go out and drink. That really worked out well. The funny thing was whenever I would finally come back...... the same people would still be there welcoming me back. Recovery has taught me to take a daily inventory and believe me I certainly recognize a lot quicker when I am wrong and make amends like JD did with you. We are all in this together we don't have to love one another but we do care....because we have all been there. you have something to offer.....your experience, strength and hope...sleep on it and pray. If you go I pray you find peace in your recovery. Best of luck.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:03 pm 
Hmm. Me and my big mouth!! This is really my fault, because I'm the experienced member, who was totally out of line either way, because IrishSubs is newer to the forum and really needs understanding and to be welcomed by guys like me. So, I sent him a PM, and I'll just have to see if he will accept my apology or not. I feel like an ass. Sometimes I just fly off the handle, and it's something I really need to work on. In this case it was because of the fact that the legal issue was brought up. I've had significant trouble with the law before, even done jail time, so when someone says "you're doing something illegal" I kind of flip out. I know he didn't mean anything by it, but I took it in a personal, malicious way.

IrishSubs35: I hope you get my PM, and again, I apologize. Come back to the thread, because you're input is just as valued and welcome as anyone else's. I didn't mean to give the impression that I was "cliquing up" with anyone, because I hate that, too. Peace,

james


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:19 pm 
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setmefree, as usual, well said!!!

donh, I could not have put it any better myself!


Can't we all just get along?? lol OR at least 'fight nice'? (j/k)

As far as I found online, holding onto pills that were legally prescribed to you is NOT against the law. At least not at the moment.


Take Care All!!

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"The past is finished. There is nothing to be gained by going over it. Whatever it gave us in the experiences it brought us was something we had to know."----Rebecca Beard

"Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." ---Salvador Dali


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