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 Post subject: Subs + Adderall
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:31 pm 
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So yesterday I went to talk to my regulardoctor about possibly having ADHD. I've taken all sorts of surveys and test very high for having possible ADHD (after I stopped drinking, my IOP counselor thinks I'd been self-medicating all sort of conditions for over 6 years). My doctor prescribed me 10mg of Adderall to be taken once a day each morning. Today was my first day and I can tell the Adderall helps. And when I take my Sub now, I don't feel as ~spaced out~ as I used to, I guess from the amphetamines. So everything is great!

But that word right there, amphetamines, that definitely shows up on urine screens right? I have an appointment with my Sub doctor tomorrow and I get screened every time. I should tell him about the Adderall because I'll test positive for amphetamines, right? I don't want him to think I've hiding something recreational. I've read that taking ADHD drugs with Subs is perfectly fine but for some reason I'm paranoid that this doctor isn't going to like it and take me off Subs. That can't happen, can it? Someone quell my fears!


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 Post subject: i would
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:09 pm 
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I would tell him for sure, I think the best thing is to be honest with him. If for some reason he does not like it he will tell you and why! If your general dr knows about them then I see no problem with it.
I know we are so nervous about getting kicked off this medicine. I would think that he would give you a warning before taking you off. I know one of the questions I have to answer on my appointments is have you relapesed and I wonder what would happen if someone checked yes!!! Just a thought. So glad you are feeling good
Mel :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:05 pm 
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Thanks Mel! Yeah, I think I'm just really paranoid that someone's going to take this light out of my life when I just got it! But sub doctors must understand multiple drug therapies are used for people in recovery, right? I signed a form with sub clinic rules on my first visit and one of the rules was "if you test positive for anything other than what is prescribed, your medication will be terminated immediately, no exceptions" which is why I'm freaking out. But I'm sure if I tell him it'll be okay. Wish me luck! I'll post here how it goes in a few hours..


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:37 pm 
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I totally fucked up.

I didn't tell my regular doctor about the subs. In fact, I only told him I had a drinking problem, not an opiate problem, because he has prescribed a lot of vicodin to me in the past. I didn't want to embarrass him. Might seem silly but there it is.

So I went to my sub doc and told him about the adderall added by my doctor (which apparently I didn't even have to, my pee came out clean?) and he said he wasn't TOO concerned, but that he wanted to call my doctor and touch base with him to make sure they were on the same page. Well, crap. Because they're not. Is this bad? Will both doctors be all like "YOU'RE A DIRTY LIAR, NO MORE ANYTHING FOR YOU" or what? I'm considering calling my reg doc and coming clean and giving him a heads up before sub doc has a chance to call. Ugh why did I think this would be easy to get away with?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:57 pm 
spacecataz wrote:
I totally fucked up.

I didn't tell my regular doctor about the subs. In fact, I only told him I had a drinking problem, not an opiate problem, because he has prescribed a lot of vicodin to me in the past. I didn't want to embarrass him. Might seem silly but there it is.

So I went to my sub doc and told him about the adderall added by my doctor (which apparently I didn't even have to, my pee came out clean?) and he said he wasn't TOO concerned, but that he wanted to call my doctor and touch base with him to make sure they were on the same page. Well, crap. Because they're not. Is this bad? Will both doctors be all like "YOU'RE A DIRTY LIAR, NO MORE ANYTHING FOR YOU" or what? I'm considering calling my reg doc and coming clean and giving him a heads up before sub doc has a chance to call. Ugh why did I think this would be easy to get away with?


Yeah, you're in trouble. This is doctor shopping. Please don't pretend you thought it would be okay to get a narcotic psych med from one doctor and a different narcotic psych med from another. Please.

Your statements, including "I didn't want to embarrass him?" and "why did I think this would be easy to get away with?" tell me that you knew EXACTLY what you were doing. Except you did it badly and you got caught. These meds ARE contraindicated because you are fighting an addiction with Suboxone. I have never heard of a legit doctor that was willing to prescribe amphetamines to an addict, let alone someone on an opiate replacement drug.

If I were you, I would come clean with your SUB DOCTOR before they have a chance to talk. That way, you only run the risk of being kicked out of one office instead of two..there is a chance that he will be reasonable and give you another chance..but you should have told him that day in the office. It doesn't look good for you that you waited to be "honest" until he told you he was gonna call your doctor. Also, if your Sub doc does choose to kick you out, withdraw your HIPPA papers/records release/his right to talk to your other doctors before he has the chance to let everyone know what you did. Hopefully, it doesn't come to that.

I have a question for you. Do you want to get clean? Adderall isn't good for your body. Your body doesn't know the difference between an amphetamine that comes with a prescription and one off the street. The same amount of damage is done..plus, Adderall definitely gets you HIGH, which you are supposed to be avoiding. If you don't want to stop using, why be on Sub? Wait until you are ready so you don't end up screwing yourself out of a good Sub doctor.

If you ARE done getting high (which I really hope you are), I doubt you are going to make this mistake again.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:44 pm 
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Dude, you obviously read my post in a different light. Go back and re-read.

The only mistake I made was not disclosing the fact that I had been on Suboxone for a month from my regular doctor because I came to talk to him about ADHD. That was the sole purpose of the visit. I wasn't even thinking about Subs to be honest, but when I did think of it I chose not to mention it (BEFORE anything about what he was prescribing me) because I was embarrassed because he used to prescribe me Vicodin all the time and I never told him I had a problem. I wasn't even looking to be prescribed Adderall in particular. I went to see what he thought would help my ADHD symptoms that have been occurring since I got clean from booze and pills. I told the doctor about the 6 years of alcohol abuse and he still prescribed me Adderall. I didn't even ask for it. I wasn't "doctor shopping". I know what that is.

By the way, I did call my doctor and told him I forgot to tell him about the Subs and that the clinic doctor would be calling him soon as a heads up. No one has said anything to me yet. My next appointment is in 2 weeks. I'm sure everything will be fine, because I've done nothing wrong but omit one single fact and I even came clean within 5 hours of the mistake I made.

Another thing? It turns out I really do have ADHD. Adderall calms me down and helps me focus on every day tasks that I couldn't beforehand. It does not get me "high". You should look up how Adderall works.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:00 am 
spacecataz wrote:
Dude, you obviously read my post in a different light. Go back and re-read.

The only mistake I made was not disclosing the fact that I had been on Suboxone for a month from my regular doctor because I came to talk to him about ADHD. That was the sole purpose of the visit. I wasn't even thinking about Subs to be honest, but when I did think of it I chose not to mention it (BEFORE anything about what he was prescribing me) because I was embarrassed because he used to prescribe me Vicodin all the time and I never told him I had a problem. I wasn't even looking to be prescribed Adderall in particular. I went to see what he thought would help my ADHD symptoms that have been occurring since I got clean from booze and pills. I told the doctor about the 6 years of alcohol abuse and he still prescribed me Adderall. I didn't even ask for it. I wasn't "doctor shopping". I know what that is.

By the way, I did call my doctor and told him I forgot to tell him about the Subs and that the clinic doctor would be calling him soon as a heads up. No one has said anything to me yet. My next appointment is in 2 weeks. I'm sure everything will be fine, because I've done nothing wrong but omit one single fact and I even came clean within 5 hours of the mistake I made.

Another thing? It turns out I really do have ADHD. Adderall calms me down and helps me focus on every day tasks that I couldn't beforehand. It does not get me "high". You should look up how Adderall works.


I know how it works. I got diagnosed with ADHD and prescribed an amphetamine salt. Having a prescription for the amphetamines doesn't stop em from being a narcotic or from getting you high.

I know someone who got fired from their Sub doc from doing what you did, which is getting Sub (a narcotic) from one doctor, and Adderall (a narcotic) from another doctor and not telling both doctors about both medications.

Come on, you are really trying to say that what you did wasn't at all underhanded? OK.

What is the point of getting clean if you are going to stay on a daily upper and daily downer? That is really bad for your heart.

However, this is a free country. Do what you wanna do.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:49 am 
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Ironic: Just because someone is an opiate addict does not mean that she can't also be ADD or ADHD. And why doesn't she deserve to have THAT condition treated as well?

And where is all this judgement coming from, Ironic? That's not what we do here. We support, help, guide, and inform, but we don't bitch and judge.

I hope your post didn't succeed in making spacecataz feel like shit - because it sure seems like that was your goal.

I honestly think you're solely here to stir up shit. This is an official warning. Stop picking fights with people - be they members or moderators. Further actions such as these could result in banning you from the site.

Spacecataz, I'm sorry you were treated like this in your own thread. I hope it all works out for you.

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Last edited by hatmaker510 on Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:02 am 
I'm a good arguer, too. Okay, I do believe that there are some people in the world that legitimately can benefit from the use of amphetamines, which by the way are not narcotics, they're simply amphetamines, which, yes are Schedule II controlled substances. Traditionally the term 'narcotic' is reserved for chemicals derived from the opium poppy and synthetic analogs of these opiates. There is no contradiction pharmacologically between amphetamines and buprenorphine, as in they are completely safe to take together. For people whose benefits outweigh risks (which are pretty great with amphetamines) the cocktail is completely fine. I absolutely believe that amphetamines are WAYYYY over prescribed, however, and that a large percent of the people who are prescribed them can, in fact, function just fine without them. For addicts I believe this tenfold. I believe ADHD is wayyy over diagnosed in that many people who are diagnosed as having ADHD, ESPECIALLY after being newly clean (even up to two years) simply DO NOT have ADHD. It's crazy to me that someone can live 20 years never having been diagnosed with ADHD, have made it through grade school, middle school and high school, maybe even college, have been using chemicals to the point that they need an opioid replacement therapy, then shortly after they clean up at an age of 25+ they are diagnosed with ADHD and are given some new (or old) upper drug. Amphetamines can be a godsend for certain populations, no doubt about it, but typically addicts are not in that population that does really well on amphetamines. Amphetamines DO cause euphoria, they DO cause concentrated attention, alertness and wakefulness. I have seen, too, that amphetamines when taken 'legitimately' by 'recovering addicts' have a way of bringing out addict behaviors such as justifying, rationalizing and straight-out lying. It's a slippery slope, amphetamines. Be careful everyone! This has been a public service announcement from Travis Norton..


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 Post subject: sad
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:07 am 
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spacecataz wrote:
I totally fucked up.

I didn't tell my regular doctor about the subs. In fact, I only told him I had a drinking problem, not an opiate problem, because he has prescribed a lot of vicodin to me in the past. I didn't want to embarrass him. Might seem silly but there it is.

So I went to my sub doc and told him about the adderall added by my doctor (which apparently I didn't even have to, my pee came out clean?) and he said he wasn't TOO concerned, but that he wanted to call my doctor and touch base with him to make sure they were on the same page. Well, crap. Because they're not. Is this bad? Will both doctors be all like "YOU'RE A DIRTY LIAR, NO MORE ANYTHING FOR YOU" or what? I'm considering calling my reg doc and coming clean and giving him a heads up before sub doc has a chance to call. Ugh why did I think this would be easy to get away with?


It just blows that not all sub docs are like JJ-or have that same understanding that this whole "thing" is about saving lives!

if you suffer from ADHD, and damn, you deceide to be honest lol, you have to pay!!! i hate it when people are worried about losing their subs!!! i think some of the problem boiles down to: that addiction doesn't recieve the noteriety it demands. some dr don't really know they are playing an evil game-dangling those little orange life- savers over their patients heads. fuch that ignorance- IMO , the DRs qualifications should determine the "cap" and the 8? hours OR length of a course they should be required to attend.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:40 am 
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travispnorton wrote:
I'm a good arguer, too. Okay, I do believe that there are some people in the world that legitimately can benefit from the use of amphetamines, which by the way are not narcotics, they're simply amphetamines, which, yes are Schedule II controlled substances. Traditionally the term 'narcotic' is reserved for chemicals derived from the opium poppy and synthetic analogs of these opiates. There is no contradiction pharmacologically between amphetamines and buprenorphine, as in they are completely safe to take together. For people whose benefits outweigh risks (which are pretty great with amphetamines) the cocktail is completely fine. I absolutely believe that amphetamines are WAYYYY over prescribed, however, and that a large percent of the people who are prescribed them can, in fact, function just fine without them. For addicts I believe this tenfold. I believe ADHD is wayyy over diagnosed in that many people who are diagnosed as having ADHD, ESPECIALLY after being newly clean (even up to two years) simply DO NOT have ADHD. It's crazy to me that someone can live 20 years never having been diagnosed with ADHD, have made it through grade school, middle school and high school, maybe even college, have been using chemicals to the point that they need an opioid replacement therapy, then shortly after they clean up at an age of 25+ they are diagnosed with ADHD and are given some new (or old) upper drug. Amphetamines can be a godsend for certain populations, no doubt about it, but typically addicts are not in that population that does really well on amphetamines. Amphetamines DO cause euphoria, they DO cause concentrated attention, alertness and wakefulness. I have seen, too, that amphetamines when taken 'legitimately' by 'recovering addicts' have a way of bringing out addict behaviors such as justifying, rationalizing and straight-out lying. It's a slippery slope, amphetamines. Be careful everyone! This has been a public service announcement from Travis Norton..


i just have to 'second' this post and give it my blessing(whatever that means LOL)- i too have seen MANY addicts clean up and mysteriously have ADHD- my pharmacist told me they are done making ADDERALL IR for the remainder of the year. this always struck me as a funny name, ADD-YER-ALL! BE ALL U CAN BE kids, and adults(of course).
Side note:
there is a quack in our area; he writes -180 oxycodone 30 IR, 120 oxycodone 15 IR Breakthru, of course, also ADDERALL 30IR #90 and of course XANAX 2mg for everyone anxiety! i never heard a variation of scripts, same scripts, no mri, cheese only. lasted a whole 3 months before the DEA busted thru, kicked everyone out, off the sidewalk! LOL, didn't even have a sign yet! it's so nice hes been gone fur 3 months!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:34 pm 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
Ironic: Just because someone is an opiate addict does not mean that she can't also be ADD or ADHD. And why doesn't she deserve to have THAT condition treated as well?

And where is all this judgement coming from, Ironic? That's not what we do here. We support, help, guide, and inform, but we don't bitch and judge.

I hope your post didn't succeed in making spacecataz feel like shit - because it sure seems like that was your goal.

I honestly think you're solely here to stir up shit. This is an official warning. Stop picking fights with people - be they members or moderators. Further actions such as these could result in banning you from the site.

Spacecataz, I'm sorry you were treated like this in your own thread. I hope it all works out for you.


Thank you so much! Indeed it made me feel like shit, I even didn't come back to the forums for awhile because I was so turned off by the judgmental attitude of this person. Glad I came back though! Good moderating <3


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:45 pm 
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travispnorton wrote:
It's crazy to me that someone can live 20 years never having been diagnosed with ADHD, have made it through grade school, middle school and high school, maybe even college, have been using chemicals to the point that they need an opioid replacement therapy, then shortly after they clean up at an age of 25+ they are diagnosed with ADHD and are given some new (or old) upper drug.


Indeed, it seems strange, but the more in therapy I talk about it (yes, I'm not just a robotic pill popper, I actually go through all the hard as hell mental health work!) the more it seems the reason I didn't catch my ADHD symptoms earlier in life is because I spent half of it self-medicating with booze, pills, and even an eating disorder. The adderall I was prescribed is simply an experiment to see if it helps with my daily sober life which I oh so struggle with now. Would it be better if I went back to medicating with a different type of bottle? Vodka is way worse for you than amphetamines yet I can go walk down the street and legally pick op 20 bottles if I wanted. The system is fucked. To be honest I'd rather fuck ALL of this shit and smoke a bowl. But they won't let me. GRUNT!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:51 pm 
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Hi Spacecat, I am glad you are getting the help you need. If your Dr feels you would benefit from adderal and it is helping you then that is all that matters. Don't feel like you have to defend your diagnosis to a bunch of strangers on the internet. What matters is that you are doing the work and trying to make yourself a happier, healthier person free of opiates and I think you should be proud of yourself for seeking the treatment you need. I hope everything works out with your sub doc, if he talks to your pcp and finds out he didn't know you were on sub I would just explain you didn't tell him for fear of judgement. Keep us posted.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:15 pm 
You don't have to ban me.

I am the only one on here who ever backs myself up with facts.

P.S. People get called out for drug-seeking behavior here ALL THE TIME. People here talk about how benzos are addictive and should be treated with caution ALL THE TIME. Adderall is the same stuff. If OP had been honest and flying the straight and narrow, they wouldn't even be concerned at all right now. This whole thread is about them being scared about being busted in a lie.

Lying to your doctor(s) and having ADHD that needs to be treated has NOTHING to do with one another.

If you don't like what I have to say, again, ban me. I haven't even broken any rules. Again, I CITE MY OPINIONS AND BACK THEM UP WITH FACTS. I am not profane and I do not engage in name-calling.

So why would you ban me? Because you don't like what I have to say? Fine..but don't pretend there is another reason.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:29 pm 
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spacecataz wrote:
travispnorton wrote:
It's crazy to me that someone can live 20 years never having been diagnosed with ADHD, have made it through grade school, middle school and high school, maybe even college, have been using chemicals to the point that they need an opioid replacement therapy, then shortly after they clean up at an age of 25+ they are diagnosed with ADHD and are given some new (or old) upper drug.


Indeed, it seems strange, but the more in therapy I talk about it (yes, I'm not just a robotic pill popper, I actually go through all the hard as hell mental health work!) the more it seems the reason I didn't catch my ADHD symptoms earlier in life is because I spent half of it self-medicating with booze, pills, and even an eating disorder. The adderall I was prescribed is simply an experiment to see if it helps with my daily sober life which I oh so struggle with now. Would it be better if I went back to medicating with a different type of bottle? Vodka is way worse for you than amphetamines yet I can go walk down the street and legally pick op 20 bottles if I wanted. The system is fucked. To be honest I'd rather fuck ALL of this shit and smoke a bowl. But they won't let me. GRUNT!


Yeah, I want to jump in and say that I was on Sub for nearly six years, and for several of those years, I was also on ADHD meds, including Dexedrine, Adderall, Ritalin, and Vyvanse. In fact, I've been on and off these meds since childhood. The same doctor prescribed both my ADHD meds and my Sub, but it also never occurred to me to be ashamed of needing ADHD meds while on Sub. I'm not on now, but that option will always be open in my mind if I hit another patch where I start to mentally spin and cannot collect my thoughts. Many of us are now stuck with the stigma that is a result of ADHD/ADD being over diagnosed and ADHD meds being abused. I was, luckily, diagnosed with ADHD relatively early in my life, but I had already gone through a ton of heartache, thinking someone was so totally wrong with me or that I was just bad. Some of my worst memories stem from that terrible feeling of being in class but not being a part of the class and totally unable to do what I was supposed to do. This feeling of being weird and unable to 'behave' even when I really tried lead me to beat myself up with drugs and alcohol, even after my diagnosis. I repeatedly stopped medication that was working because I felt like it set me aside as different or retarded. Also, ADHD meds can be absolutely not fun for someone who does have ADHD. I fought and fought my parents over taking them because I felt robotic, yet when I went off them, I ended up tanking in middle school, stopped again and dropped out of high school entirely, and stopped in college and ended up dropping all my classes. This is not some imaginary thing.

Spacecataz, I really recommend a book called Driven to Distraction. It changed everything for me to read that book. I think it was about accepting my crazy brain and not feeling alone anymore.

People don't ask to be addicts. People also don't ask to have bipolar disorder or diabetes or depression or ADHD. So....a little more compassion please. It's a risky thing to judge someone for taking an ADHD med, especially when the person passing judgment is on opiate replacement therapy and probably has experience being judged themselves. I've been down that vodka road to avoid dealing with my crazy brain, and it is absolutely more destructive than being accurately diagnosed and properly treated.

Good luck, spacecataz.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:03 pm 
spacecataz wrote:
Indeed, it seems strange, but the more in therapy I talk about it (yes, I'm not just a robotic pill popper, I actually go through all the hard as hell mental health work!) the more it seems the reason I didn't catch my ADHD symptoms earlier in life is because I spent half of it self-medicating with booze, pills, and even an eating disorder. The adderall I was prescribed is simply an experiment to see if it helps with my daily sober life which I oh so struggle with now. Would it be better if I went back to medicating with a different type of bottle? Vodka is way worse for you than amphetamines yet I can go walk down the street and legally pick op 20 bottles if I wanted. The system is fucked. To be honest I'd rather fuck ALL of this shit and smoke a bowl. But they won't let me. GRUNT!


I certainly hope you didn't take offense to what I was saying as I was saying it in a pretty general way. I myself was diagnosed with ADHD as a young child and was given amphetamines and ritalin until I was of the age to 'cheek' and toss them on the way to the schoolbus. As someone else said, just because I believe that ADHD is probably overdiagnosed it certainly does not mean that you don't legitimately have it and can't benefit from treatment. Obviously you're working with a therapist and doctor who are privvy to your medical information and no one here is, so who are we to say? As I said, there is absolutely no contradictions between any of the amphetamine compounds and buprenorpine except that, in general, amphetamines are prone to abuse and doubly so within populations who are already prone to abuse in general. I never personally abused amphetamines because, as I said, I simply didn't like the way they made me feel...there was no reinforcement for me to take them at all let alone abuse them. I'm glad to hear that what you're doing is working out for you!

-Travis


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:03 pm 
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Ironic wrote:
You don't have to ban me.

I am the only one on here who ever backs myself up with facts.

P.S. People get called out for drug-seeking behavior here ALL THE TIME. People here talk about how benzos are addictive and should be treated with caution ALL THE TIME. Adderall is the same stuff. If OP had been honest and flying the straight and narrow, they wouldn't even be concerned at all right now. This whole thread is about them being scared about being busted in a lie.

Lying to your doctor(s) and having ADHD that needs to be treated has NOTHING to do with one another.

If you don't like what I have to say, again, ban me. I haven't even broken any rules. Again, I CITE MY OPINIONS AND BACK THEM UP WITH FACTS. I am not profane and I do not engage in name-calling.

So why would you ban me? Because you don't like what I have to say? Fine..but don't pretend there is another reason.


You sound like a kicking, screaming little child. Are you upset that no one cares that you're all knowing and mighty and have never done anything wrong in your life? Awww. Go away. I came to a support board, not a judgmental dick board.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:06 pm 
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Thanks, everyone else, for getting what I'm saying and knowing how I feel! Made me feel better <3 laddertipper, I'll totally check out that book!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:36 pm 
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Hi spacecat, I am glad you are feeling better with the Adderal! Like I said before don't worry about people's negative comments. Nobody here knows how you feel, what you've been thru and what you need to be healthy. I understand what you are saying about not telling your pcp, there are a lot of judgemental drs out there and its scary to know you may not get the treatment you require because you are an addict. It has happened to too many of us too many times. I am proud of you for calling your pcp and telling him about the sub, that took courage.

You absolutely were not Dr shopping, and had Ironic taken the time to even read your post she would have known that you told your sub Dr about the Adderal. I am sorry you were treated that way when you came here looking for support. We have a lot of caring members here and we will be here to support you thru your recovery.


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