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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:17 pm 
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Well, I said to myself that I wasn't going to post again but "Philipfigueroa86" keeps asking for "some words of wisdom". Philip, what you are going through right now is W/D. As to whether you are through the worst of if physically I can't begin to say. I'm not a Dr. I am a nurse and I am a recovering addict. I do know what I have gone through in the past. Dr. J wrote a great thread on addiction. I would highly recommend that you read it. As for any words of wisdom, you have already received quite a few from this site. As for myself, I wasn't and still not strong enough to fight addiction on my own. It is a disease that is very powerful. I got help when I surrendered and quit fighting. Part of that for me includes being on Suboxone and being under a Dr's. care and not self- medicating. When I think that I know more than my Dr. on how to treat my disease I'm in trouble. You say that ,"the thought keeps lingering in my head; you also say, "every hour I think about doing oxy again." Let me ask you this. What kind of support system do you have in place ? Counselor, therapist, Dr. meetings, sponsor, etc..... anything along those lines to help you get through ? Just curious. Anyway I wish you the best. Let us know how things keep going for you. I will keep you in my prayers.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:17 pm 
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Philip,

I just read immortal's latest thread and in it he talks about how he just got on Clonidine. The Clonidine is helping him a lot with the wd symptoms and it helped me tons with my wd symptoms. He is taking 0.1mg 3 times daily. I took 0.1 mg 2 times daily. Clonidine is a blood pressure medication that is prescribed 'off label' for opiate wd.

If I were you, I would go to my doctor, explain to him that you're detoxing off of opiates and ask him to prescribe Clonidine. That's all I had to do with my Primary Care Physician to get some Clonidine. Clonidine also helped me get some sleep at night.

Hang in there, man.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:56 am 
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I will try and make a doctors appointment to see if he can prescribe me what you guys have talked about first thing tomorrow. i am wondering if that medication raises or lowers your blood pressure b/c either one seems like it could be dangerous epically while using pot or xanax maybe? so far for my withdrawls today which i definitely started to feel this morning started with a little more pooping than normal, took some Imodium (helped allot) than during the middle of the day when i was at lunch with a friend i started to get very very cold to the point where i had goosebumps, i asked my friend if it was chilly in here and he replied that he was actually kind of warm, at that point i kind of had some bad anxiety so i took 1mg of xanax to relax. i know in the next 2 days the worst parts of my withdrawls will be over and i will stop taking the benzos to help me through this. to be honest with you guys i actually don't even like the feeling xanax gives me, that loopy kind of zombie like feeling, i absolutely hate it. Although xanax has helped tremendously with not noticing too much of the withdrawls and also with sleep, i want to get off it ASAP (as soon as the withdrawls are bearable). Benzos like xanax should definitely not be used by everyone to help with withdrawls as i can see that some people may like it too much and can create a new addiction to that. i know i will not keep using xanax b/c i litteraly don't like the so called "high" that it gives you. the only drug i wish to do at the age i am at right now is pot. nothing more. i will keep you guys informed on how the next few days go but i am very proud of myself that i made it past a week of not taking oxycodone.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:16 pm 
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I woke up today with some sore muscles, definitely wasnt too bad though ... Had soo much trouble going to bed last night even with taking 1mg of xanax... The withdrawal symptoms seem to be getting better and better as each day goes by. the hardest part of this all is the thought of doing it again keeps creeping up on me, i think "just smoke one more 30" "it wont be so bad, and you can quit again for another week or two before you do it" I KNOW THIS IS NOT THE CASE... smoking that crap for a month and half, litteraly waisted a month of time away (kind of, i guess you can say i went to work and was a functioning drug addict) None of that matters though because doing 150mg of oxycodone a day for about a month and a half definitely made me waist over $3,000 God i wish i had that money right now. i know that the thought of doing it will go away after time bust as of right now i feel like i keep thinking about it almost every other hour. Ive found xbox live on my new flat screen definitely has kept me occupied to not think about opiates, hanging out with good friends that aren't into bad things Ive found also helps the time go by without thinking about it. its hard but i cant wait tell im passed day 7 of no suboxone by then it will also be day 10 of no oxycodone... *Cant wait* 2 more nights!! keep me in your prayers and i will keep you guys in mine. i know how bad we all need them.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:22 pm 
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Hey Philip,

I'm so proud of you for being so honest with all of us and I'm obviously proud of you for not letting those 'crappy' thoughts get the best of you. I struggled with those thoughts for a while too, you are certainly not alone there.

Recovery is hard work, no doubt.

Stay strong and don't give up!!


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 Post subject: wow
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:23 am 
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i keep thinking about doing it again, almost on day 6 of no suboxone and day 9 of no oxycodone... i feel like it gets better everyday but i keep thinking there will be no harm if i just do a little bit... WTF is wrong with me!? god everytime i think about doing it ill just smoke a lil weed hopefully ill be to stoned to know what oxycodone is by the end of the night lol...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:46 am 
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You ask a very short, solid and important question:

"WTF is wrong with me!?"

Here is the short answer: You're an addict.

I do have good news, however. To start with, you are not a bad person, you are not weak, you are not anything other than a human being with an illness, with a disease. You have the disease of addiction. That is what is "wrong" with you. You have a disease.

This is what we were trying to tell you all along. That is not a "we told you so" comment. For many, perhaps most people, they need to find out for themselves. The cravings you are feeling are actually pretty normal. Unfortunately, its not likely to go away on its own.

Yeah, I'm being very blunt and direct with you. That's because I don't want to see you relapse. Don't get down on yourself. Don't beat yourself up over it. Above all, please don't take more benzo or smoke more pot to try to deal with it. You see, that was our fear all along - especially with the benzos. I think you might be able to see more clearly now why we were so concerned and said the things we said to you.

So what do you do from here? Well, you actually do have several options. The thing is, if you continue just trying to white knuckle through it, you are very likely to relapse. That is just a fact. Again, this is not you being weak, bad, rotten, stupid or anything else. It's just that this damn disease of addiction totally sucks and totally dominates those afflicted with it. Perhaps you need to consider Suboxone longer term? Perhaps you need to consider some drug counseling? Perhaps you need to consider NA or a similar program? Perhaps you need to consider all three? I know you just want to make it through the next couple of days, or whatever, and then all will be well. Unfortunately, the cravings that you are having are not likely to go away. Ask others here who have gone through it and they will tell you what happened to them.

Going back on Suboxone is NOT FAILURE. In fact, even relapse is not FAILURE - so long as it's not permanent I am just trying to head off a relapse before it happens. I wish I could somehow make it all better and just somehow fix it but I can't even do that for myself. The best I can do, at least right now, is continue on Suboxone. I'm not pushing Sub for you. Honestly I'm not. I just know that the easy part is actually stopping the opiates - and we know how NOT easy that is. The real hard part is staying stopped.

Please continue to post. Please ask any questions and allow us to help you in any way we can. It's all a long learning process. Hang in there and keep at it!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:37 am 
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Philip,

I too have been worried about you and I have been trying to keep a close eye on you.....I was going to give it another day or two, but I am at the point where I agree with donh.

Maybe going on Suboxone for a little while longer would help? Without a doubt, some kind of counseling would help you. Neither of these two things are shameful.....hell, I was on Suboxone for three years!! I worked with my addiction counselor for three years.

Because of your very short opiate abuse history, I was trying to give you a wide berth, freedom within fences kind of thing. But, I think you are quickly approaching a point of danger.

Like donh said, your an addict and I was hoping against hope that opiates just hadn't got that strong of a hold on you yet, but it seems like they have. It's happened to millions of us. Don't be ashamed at all.

Thank you for your continued honesty, it makes it nice to work with you.

Will you consider Suboxone and/or some counseling?

Donh, thank you for not giving up on Philip. While donh and I may not always agree on everything, you can bet your ass that we only ever want what is best for people like you Philip!!


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 Post subject: thanks for the support
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:36 am 
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i know that thinking about oxycodone comes with the territory of doing as much as i was doing a day. i mean man common i haven't even been off of it for 2 weeks yet... of course it is going to be going through my head, i know i can stay strong though and not do it again. I really don't care how much i think about it if i continue to block it out, i will keep thinking of doing oxycodone less and less as time passes. i like to think of it as getting broken up with by the love of your life... your going to think about it allot for a good few weeks but after a while they start to slip your memory and before you know it you have moved on. as far as taking benzos it helped dramatically with the withdrawls, and as of day 6 of no suboxone and day 9 of no oxycodone i am getting better and better to the point where i am not even taking xanax to help. as for pot well ill smoke pot tell the day i die, and ill tell you what there are MANY MANY MANY more harmful aspects of suboxone compared to marijuana... if marijuana is helping me get over this let it. Like i said before on other posts i don't plan on quiting weed and i am okay with that. smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee would kill someone way before pot would. common guys telling me to go on suboxone after almost a week with no opiates at all, it sounds more harmful than good, being on a opiate like suboxone for a long period of time seems so dangerous and the worst part about it all is the horror story upon horror story of the withdrawals people face when trying to get off of suboxone after a long period of time. why would i want to start taking something like that when most of my withdrawal symptoms are already gone?.... i think i am doing great, and to put more opiates like suboxone in my system just seems wrong. i do thank you for the words of wisdom and i know i need counseling and to talk this out with people to help me... i thank the lord i have gotten to talk this out with you guys and have almost a diary of me getting through this opiate addiction... i hope it will help someone out there who is in a similar situation. thanks for everything guys, i am planning on staying strong and not taking oxycodone, i have a very strong personality not much people could have kicked that bad of a habbit i had for a week like i have.... i know its probably one of the hardest things i have ever had to go through in my life... well not really i have been through some shit but this definatly is not too much fun. i will keep you guys inofrmend of me staying sober from the oxycodone and what the next few days are like... i feel like at this point the worst of the withdrawls have past and day by day im growing stronger... i pray everyday multiple times for the lord to help me get through this and i know that whith him on my side anything is possible. thanks all and god bless.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:12 pm 
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I just want to be clear about a couple of things. I am NOT SAYING that you have to go back on Suboxone. I hope I was clear about that. I listed several options for you. My point was and is, that Suboxone is ONE of the options for you to consider. I said that you had other options as well and added that you could combine two or more of the options. However, I have not said that Suboxone is the only option for you. That's my first point.

Perhaps more importantly, to say there are MANY MANY MANY more harmful aspects of suboxone compared to marijuana is just foolish. You can certainly believe what you want to believe but you are not going to find many physicians nor will you find many medical publications if any that will say or show Suboxone to be more harmful than marijuana. Then there is a little thing called Federal Law, where Suboxone is approved for sale, use and medical treatment in the United States while marijuana, on a Federal level, is not. Even on a state level, it is available in only a handful of states where it still remains controversial. I'm am not going to debate marijuana use/abuse with you. I'm not even trying to say its in the same class as coke or meth or whatever. I even happen to believe that marijuana may be helpful for some MEDICAL conditions. What I am mostly saying is that claiming marijuana is more dangerous and harmful than Suboxone is a self-serving statement that just simply cannot be backed up - other than perhaps with fringe groups and rogue Internet sites. The medical community just simply does not support that statement.

I am glad to hear that you seem to be feeling a little bit better. Again, looking at the plus side, you really should be over the peak of withdrawals by this point. Everything I know about both opiates and Suboxone tells me you are past the peak. Unfortunately the Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS) will often last for months. It is the PAWS, while less intense, that often does people in. It is sort of like a nagging moderate or minor pain that after days just about drives you nuts.

As always, please keep letting us know how you are doing.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:14 pm 
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Hey Philip,

I was really talking more about short term use of suboxone for you. I should have been more clear. I was honestly getting more and more worried about you, that's why I said what I did.

I like your comparison of opiates to an ex-love. I have used that comparison a few times on the forum too. It's a very simple way to get a powerful point across.

I guess part of why I mentioned suboxone was the fact that I was hoping you would keep it in your mind if you saw yourself headed for a relapse. I understand your fears of being on it long term, it certainly can be hard to quit if you don't taper properly.

I sure am glad to hear you pray. I pray everyday too. My faith has helped me greatly in my sobriety. I'm sure your faith will provide you with the same strength.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:30 pm 
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Almost at the week point of not having a drop of opiates in me :) I agree that suboxone can be very useful and helpful for certain people, but it is a strong opiate that does put a chemical in your system that isn't there, marijuana doesn't really do that so coming from the point of addictiveness and having withdrawls from it simply isn't there... trust me allot more people have died using the drug suboxone while no one has ever died from using marijuana alone. im not here to argue or anything i just am trying to say the suboxone is a strong strong chemical that should only be used under the direct care of your doctor... hopefully your doctor isn't a quack, they are out there you know the doctors that just prescribe shit to get bonuses from the drug companies, not all doctors are helpful or have the right answers that's all im saying. im sure most doctors do though and i am sure you can feel that out within the first couple meetings you have with them, a danger point i would look out for is if they try and give you sample packs of prescription medication to use. that is when you know that a drug company is giving the doctor sample packs of their medication to give to the clients, in return the doctors clients use the prescription hopefully stay on it and make that pharmaceutical company plenty of money while the doctor gets a free vacation to hawaii. anyways i guess at this point i am rambling. i like reading others peoples opinions on things so feel free to comment on what i am saying.

as for the PAWS withdrawal syndrome i woke up today thinking i want oxycodone! and then when i went pee i snapped out of it and was like what the hell am i thinking. i know i thought that because when i was on the drug i would do it like a ritual right when i woke up... i wouldn't even get out of bed first. i know that is why i thought of it this morning but the best thing we can do is keep those thoughts out and pray to alleviate thinking about them... i know as time does by the thoughts of doing it so much will dwindle away and i will be like man what the hell was i thinking... its hard but im trying my best to stay in there, good luck to all of you guys who are in the same boat as i am.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:27 pm 
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Definetly preying can overturn every habit, and help when nothing else ever could. I was like that with ciggarettes two summers ago. I quit Suboxone and smoking around the same time. I had those feelings wanting to smoke real bad for about maybe thirty seconds here and there and they were gone. I've heard that urges to smoke only last twenty seconds at a time and if you can get through the 20 second craving you are good to go till the next one hits. Good luck

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 Post subject: week 2 clean
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:30 am 
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I am going to go by weeks now because everyday is just too much writing lol. 2nd week... still trouble sleeping sometimes get cramps. not much of an appetite but still eating good... i thought it would all be over in a week but boy was i wrong lol of course it gets better day by day but of course i still think about it everyday definitely allot less than i was before. just cant wait to be normal again. hang in there guys!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:19 pm 
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You're doing good. Stay strong and thanks for the update!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:07 am 
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I'd just like to add that Xanax for anxiety works but like the rest of the folks here stated Xanax is mega wicked. I have a friend who took .5 mg of alprozolam for two weeks and with out a taper she had WD for 6 weeks and still struggles. Alprozolam works on the GABA receptors the bodies natural neutotransmiter to produce calmness. There are several if these receptors ranging from the brain to the adomonal area. With alprozolam being such a short acting drug your brain and body change and the reduction of GABA is quicker. Defiantly stagger your benzo use if you have to use. Benzo get into your bones and marrow. I Often wonder why it's a schedule IV. They are both equally bad WD's but GABA is basically your bodies regulator. Just make sure you stagger your alprozolam. No more then 3 days at a time. Then break yourself take sub if you have to. You don't want cross addiction.

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 Post subject: *philip86*
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 4:22 pm 
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[font=Century Gothic]Hello *Philip86* and welcome to the forum, i just wanted to quickly weigh in on something said on here by *Donh* whom i have alot of respect for and find to be a very intelligent person, and I would have to 100% agree with his advice about staying as far away from -zanax- as you can, he is absolutely correct not only is it a very addictive substance but it is also not a good idea to mix benzo's with the suboxone unless absolutely needed and like *donh* said your also doing ALL of this WITHOUT any PRESCRIPTION or DR supervision BAD idea. However one this that *donh* mentioned that as a (Paramedic) i would have to disagree with is that he said that it is unlikely for you to die from opiate withdraw. From personal experience with treating many patients and a few who have had fatal symptoms from withdrawing from opiates. I have had three different patients who have experienced fatal withdraw symptoms from heavy opiate usage including (status seizures)aka a seizure that was unable to be stopped by medication and the patient died as a result, and two other young patients who have gone into fatal (cardiac arrhythmias)aka really screwed up heart beat. All 3 of these patients died as a direct result of their severe and untreated withdraw symptoms from years of pure opiate usage. So I just wanted to chime in with my proffessional experience with my patients. But *Donh* is absolutely right -Zanax- is definately something to stay away from especially when your self medicating! Please take no disrespect or offense to what I wrote *donh* i have alot of respect for you, i was just adding personal experience from a field were both in! 8) [/font]

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 Post subject: Re: *philip86*
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 7:52 pm 
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MysteriVamp wrote:
[font=Century Gothic]Hello *Philip86* and welcome to the forum, i just wanted to quickly weigh in on something said on here by *Donh* whom i have alot of respect for and find to be a very intelligent person, and I would have to 100% agree with his advice about staying as far away from -zanax- as you can, he is absolutely correct not only is it a very addictive substance but it is also not a good idea to mix benzo's with the suboxone unless absolutely needed and like *donh* said your also doing ALL of this WITHOUT any PRESCRIPTION or DR supervision BAD idea. However one this that *donh* mentioned that as a (Paramedic) i would have to disagree with is that he said that it is unlikely for you to die from opiate withdraw. From personal experience with treating many patients and a few who have had fatal symptoms from withdrawing from opiates. I have had three different patients who have experienced fatal withdraw symptoms from heavy opiate usage including (status seizures)aka a seizure that was unable to be stopped by medication and the patient died as a result, and two other young patients who have gone into fatal (cardiac arrhythmias)aka really screwed up heart beat. All 3 of these patients died as a direct result of their severe and untreated withdraw symptoms from years of pure opiate usage. So I just wanted to chime in with my proffessional experience with my patients. But *Donh* is absolutely right -Zanax- is definately something to stay away from especially when your self medicating! Please take no disrespect or offense to what I wrote *donh* i have alot of respect for you, i was just adding personal experience from a field were both in! 8) [/font]


WOW! That kinda scares me. So, having a history of seizures, should I be worried about that happening if I jump of Suboxone? I remember the SubDoc posting something about seizures in newborns after being born dependent and that made me wonder if opiate w/d was dangerous to someone who had dealt with epilepsy.

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