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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:44 pm 
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Romeo you nailed my opinion right on the dot. i know that taking xanax for opiate withdrawals is playing with fire but i assure you and everyone else i will not use them once the withdrawals from the opiates end. and yes romeo you are correct, the only drugs i plan on quiting are opiates. Making it through the withdrawals from them is one of the hardest things i have ever had to experience in my life. I will keep smoking weed. Anyways i am a recreational drug user and i will admit this. the main thing i want to never do again is opiates and have to experience the pain of coming off of them. i don't condone what i do (smoking pot everyday) but i want this forum to be able to show people like me how I'm getting over my opiate withdrawals which i might add is the worst type of drug i have ever taken and never want to do again.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:05 am 
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Hey Philip,

You mention you won't use Xanax once your wd's end, I just wanted to make sure you understand your wd's could last for weeks and weeks and taking Xanax for that long is too long. I'm guessing you meant that you would stop the Xanax once the worst of the wd's pass, which should be a matter of days. I just want you to be careful.


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 Post subject: on day 6 of no oxycodone
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:56 am 
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yes romeo i only plan on using the xanax for a remainder of days until the worst of the withdrawal symptoms subside. i don't know whether to take 1mg of suboxone today or more xanax i will let you guys know what i do though... I'm planing on just taking more xananx seeing as it is day 3 of no suboxone. keep in mind people i was only using oxycodone for a month and a half (smoking 150mg a day) I really hope that the worst of the withdrawal symptoms are almost over. 150mg of oxycodone was bad... towards the end i wasnt really even getting high it was just so i could function pretty much. god i would never take xanax for weeks on end! that would be horrible! but what i do plan on doing is just taking them the next few days to get over the worst of the w/d symptoms i really hope w/d's don't last weeks on end. i am going on day 6 of no oxycodone now, the first day of sobriety from it i took 6mg of suboxone 2nd day 4mg and third day 2mg so in a total only 3 days of suboxone use, the last 2 days i have used xananx to help with the w/d's I'm hopping i will be back to normal in the next 3 or 4 days seeing as i wasnt using oxycodone or suboxone for long at all. so far my withdrawal symptoms seem minimum they still suck enough to take some xananx though (which i plan on stopping in 3 days). any input!?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:43 am 
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I have to agree with don on many points. I didn't bring them up because I got a strong sense that you were determined to do it your own way. Basically all the steps you are taking to get off opiates are all signs of continued active addiction. You keep saying that you won't go back to opiates, but looking at it that way and not being vigilant about possible relapse is dangerous. In that case, relapse can sneak up on you. I'm not trying to piss you off or doom you to failure - and I probably should have posted about this before now. The best piece of advice I can give you is to remain vigilant and realize that there is still the chance of relapse. I hope you succeed in your plan.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:42 am 
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Hey phillip welcome to the forum.

I read everyone's posts here, and maybe I'm misinformed or misremembering, but it's my understanding when you go from an opiate to suboxone you are not "negating" any w/d's you might feel from your DOC when you start taking suboxone. When you do quit the suboxone, all the oxy w/d's you would have felt will not be gone.

I believe Dr. Junig is the one who brought this to my attention somewhere on this site. People saying, well I only took sub for 2 weeks, why are my w/d's so horrible? Because they took heroin for 3 years prior, or they took Oxy for 1 year prior, or w/e. Those w/d's are not going to disappear when you start taking suboxone. Sub is still filling opiate receptors, just like Oxy did, and as far as the opiate receptors in your brain were concerned everything is still fine and dandy. At least, this is how I understand it.

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, but I don't want you to expect an easy ride and not get one. Better to expect a hard ride and get an easy one, than an easy one and get a hard one. If that made any sense.

Regardless, glad you are trying to quit opiates and I hope you stick around and let us know how it goes.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:40 pm 
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I do believe you are absolutely correct, Jobe. It's as though the suboxone holds one over from going through the w/d of their DOC. The thing about sub is that it IS possible to taper down, whereas with our DOC we can almost never taper down/off of it.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:24 pm 
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weening off of the the oxycodone through tapering down to low Mg's of suboxone actually helped me tremendously. it pretty much killed the withdrawls i would have faced the first 3 days off getting off my DOC. I'm not saying it totally killed them, it was still very hard to not think about my DOC and going back to it but i didn't (withdrawls where still there but definitely more manageable). Anyways I'm 3 days clean off of the suboxone now and i feel GREAT! i woke up today feeling slight withdrawls but very manageable... I'm thinking about not even taking xanax today! I almost feel back to normal, tomorrow will be a week off oxycodone and 4 days off the low mg of suboxone that i only took for 3 days. NO MORE OPIATS FOR ME. I'm done with them!!! ill let you guys know if any withdrawls creep on me later today and tell you if i have to take more xananx for them... thanks for the words of wisdom but this is my story of getting off opiates and what worked for me, I'm not saying it will work for everyone. I am upset that some of you people have the balls to tell me what I'm doing is wrong when you are in fact still on suboxone while i am free from it. Suboxone is a great drug but should only be used for a week at most to taper off of the persons DOC using very low mg's. Taking the suboxone any longer than a week is playing with fire b/c your withdrawls will be as bad if not worse than your DOC. luckily i only used subs to taper off my DOC for 3 days and let me tell you it definitely helped me. so there guys... ill keep you informed of the next few days of getting off the opiates and tell you how much xanax i have to use if any for the remainder of the next few days.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:44 pm 
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Philip,

Many of the people on this forum are EXTREMELY knowledgeable not only about suboxone pharmacology in general but about addiction. I would not reject their advice lightly.

Almost all of the regular members on this forum take suboxone regularly for maintenance and have no immediate plans to stop taking it. That is an accepted way to take this drug. As for your statement about "playing with fire", we follow the instructions of our doctors and take suboxone as prescribed to treat a chronic condition known as addiction. Self medicating with drugs that are not prescribed to you is not a smart way to treat addiction.

Your opiate history is short, and for that you should be thankful. Many of us have been on illegal opiates for years. I myself have taken methadone and oxycontin for 5 years, with 4 years on the suboxone program. Luckily for you, with your short opiate history things may not be so hard to actually detox. But keep in mind, there is a big difference between detoxing and staying clean. Anyone can detox if put into a situation where they cannot take drugs. It's staying clean that is hard to do. The main reason that people like us on the forums have been on suboxone so long is because we recognize that after we detox we cannot stay clean. It may be a personality trait or a disease, but we are taking the important step of realizing that to stay on suboxone is letting us live a normal life.

I am very glad that you are "feeling great" while taking xanax that was not prescribed to you (that you are self medicating), but if you want to be successful you need to think about what you are going to do next. You are a stranger to me and obviously you know yourself better, but it will help you tremendously to think about lifestyle changes. Get away from the things that made you start using oxy in the first place. It is all well and good to say "no more oxy for me" but if you continue to put yourself into the situations that made you smoke oxy in the first place you will be smoking it again in no time flat. Take it from someone who has been there (many times).

I have detoxed and said "no more" more times than I can remember, and I always went right back at it. Sometimes I lasted a little while, most of the time I didn't. I believe you said somewhere earlier in this thread that you "know your own body" or something to that effect. In some ways that is 100% true, but in other ways it is fatally false. If you knew yourself so well how did you allow yourself to become addicted in the first place? We are not our own best doctors.

OK, time to end rant. I did not mean to go off on you, but I see alot of myself in your attitude now. I thought I could do everything by myself and I failed (many times). As I'm sure many on the forums here have. I just hate to see you walk down the same path I have. Please think about getting into some support system after you successfully detox.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:09 pm 
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Whoa, whoa, whoa, just hold on a bit here. You can't just make outrageous claims and not be asked to substantiate and back them up. Everyone is entitled to their opinion (no matter how wrong or misguided it may be) but responsibility goes along with each and every post. So please, let the rest of us know the data, research, and medical basis you use to make the statement:

"Suboxone is a great drug but should only be used for a week at most to taper off of the persons DOC using very low mg's."

Where are you getting this information? Please site your sources for Suboxone's only use being for a week to taper.

"Taking the suboxone any longer than a week is playing with fire b/c your withdrawals will be as bad if not worse than your DOC."

This is simply wrong and not true. But again, please provide us with your source for this information. How is it that you know this statement to be true and valid?

As for the rest of the story, I encourage and invite you to let us know your status one month from now, not to mention one year from now. As Jobe stated, we have heard over and over again from many, many people that say they are "done with opiates" and will "never take another opiate again" only to relapse a short time later. That is simply addict speak. Just the statistics alone show that the relapse rate for opiate addiction is as high as 90% - even higher for those under the age of 30. To make such a statement clearly shows you do not understand and respect the power of opiates - and how powerless you are over them. In fact, I believe that is step one, is it not?

We have treated you with dignity and respect here and expect no less back from you. As for the comments you received, let me remind you, word for word, of what you have asked for from us:

"any thoughts are helpful, thanks"
"any suggestions are greatly appreciated. thanks"
"thanks a bunch any input is appreciated"
"but yeah any input is greatly appreciated thanks for the words of wizdom [wisdom] and support"
"any input is greatly appreciated"
"any input!?"


Those, sir, are directly your words. If you didn't want "any thoughts, suggestions, input, and wisdom, you should not have asked for it. You asked us for thoughts, suggestions, input and wisdom - which is exactly what we gave to you. You stated that input is "greatly appreciated". Is this how you provide "great appreciation?" Don't you dare now jump on us for providing exactly what you asked us for. Clearly you didn't like hearing what we had to say - ie. the truth. However, you asked for our input. YOU ASKED US FOR IT. WE DID NOT FORCE IT ON YOU.

I guess you need to be careful for what you ask for... as you just might get it.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:05 pm 
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Gezzze!!!! No need to go off on the guy! I have been in subs for 2 years. And will probably be on them forever. But I'm not going to go off on someone for having a difference of opinion. And list their requests on my fingers. I don't agree with everything he said. But I'm not going to let it get me all angry over it.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:07 pm 
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It was justified, philip basically came out and said that he was better than us for not being on subs.


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 Post subject: My 2¢
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:44 pm 
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Although I will try to taper down from Sub eventually, my doctor said it is no big deal if I want to stay on it for life. There is nothing wrong with taking a legally prescribed drug for our illness. But boy, do we get defensive about it, and rightly so.

His statement took a lot of the anxiety out of my thinking. I was really worried about the difficulty of tapering and stopping all together. But now if I think too much on it, I will just tell myself that a 4mg maintenance dose for life is my medicine. Just like the Lipitor I take.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:25 am 
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:evil: sub should only be used for a week? Oh my where did this genius get his medical degree lol. People should put in their opinion when they don't know what they say is correct. A year or two weeks on sub makes no differance if anyone is rely n on this post. Good luck to you stopping but sub bashing? You must be feeling bad to say that and its understandable coming off your DOC mixed with sub. Good luck though!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:34 am 
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Sorry to break it to you guys but i have read article upon article and forum upon forum of HOW BAD SUBOXONE WITHDRAWLS CAN BE after taken for a long period of time. look it up for yourself it is not hard to do. I'm not saying I'm better than anyone because I'm not taking suboxone anymore all I'm saying is I'm glad i used it for a short period of time to taper off my DOC rather then being on it for years at a time and having to go through the horrible withdrawls that come from that. In my opinion doctors keeping people on suboxone for a long period of time is because of the almighty dollar. Did you know that doctors actually get free cars, vacations, paycheck bonuses, and lots of other goodies from the pharmaceutical company that makes suboxone? Yes, that is right doctors are actually making money off keeping you on suboxone. In all the reading that i have done online which i would say has been hours upon hours a day for the past week or so, the only people that don't experience withdrawls from suboxone are the people that have been on it for a short period of time such as a week. I have read horror story upon horror story of what people have had to go through trying to get off of suboxone after taking it for months or even years at a time, and that is also with tapering down to even as low as 2mgs at a time. If you are on any drug for a long period of time especially a strong opiate like suboxone you WILL have withdrawls whether u taper down or not. sorry to break it to you guys but just google some forums and see how bad the withdrawls people have had to face after being on suboxone for years or months at a time. being on suboxone should only be used for a week to taper off peoples DOC so their body can get used to lower and lower amounts of opiates in their system, It is common sense. if you are going to be on a strong opiate like suboxone for months or years at a time it will be hard as hell to get off no matter how much you taper down. GOOGLE SUBOXONE WITHDRAWL.

Anyways it is my 4th day off of suboxone and 7th day off of oxycodone and what do you know? I feel normal! I haven't even used any xanax today for the withdrawls b/c there as been barely any. I might use some xananx tomorrow if the withdrawls are not bearable but hopefully they well be and i can stay clean from all of this crap besides pot.

I'm not trying to put you people down that have been on suboxone for long periods of time i know that it might help you with your particular type of addiction but being on a strong substance like that for a long period of time is definitely not for me. i wish you all the best of luck in recovery and hope that you wish the same for me. i will let you guys know how the next few days go of me staying clean off of the oxycodone.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:46 am 
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I dont think anyone tried to say that you wont have w/d's if you take sub for a long time then stop. It's obvious you will. Same as with any other opiate.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:18 am 
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Hey, I'm just glad Philip got off of Oxycodone and was sucessful by using Suboxone to do it. Given his short opiate history, I think his short term use of Suboxone was the best move he could have made. Does he have a long road ahead of him as far as staying off of opiates, of course he does and I think he's aware of this. Although, I don't really think that opiates were his REAL Drug of Choice, so I am not gravely concerned for his future in this regard. For a short time they were his Drug of Choice, but hopefully not long enough to give him cravings that he can't tolerate.

Philip, I'm happy for you. I'm so glad that you're feeling as good as you are, that's really, really great to hear!!

I hope you continue posting and keeping us up to date.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:17 pm 
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Hi everyone. I've decided to comment here. Phllip, I wish you the best but for me the disease of addiction was way too much and way too powerful for me to try and kick on my own. Oh how many times I tried to stop on my own only to end up going back again and again and again. Not to rain on your parade, but donh has some great advice on adding more pieces to your plan to help you and moman is right about getting through the W/D's is only the starting point. We all only want the best for you man. There is alot of support here as well as alot of good information from alot of people who have alot of wisdom. Nobody's trying to come down on you, it's just when you have been down a certain road before and you know what is down that road and you see someone getting ready to head down that same road you want to try and help them and say to them , " stop" . "I wouldn't go down that road. " Please keep us informed of how you are doing and how things are going and I wish you the best.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:18 pm 
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Ok philfiguro. I was on sub for 13 months and tapered down and never missed a DAY of work. Get with the program and get the facts straight you can't believe everything you see on tv or on line.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:30 pm 
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At this point i want to apologize to the people on here that i might have offended. I know i have a strong belief system and am a very opinionated person. i didn't mean to tell anyone what they are doing is wrong. I know that being on a suboxone program for a long period of time can be a good thing, but of course only for certain people. there are dangers doing any narcotic like suboxone for a long period of time but as long as it helps you function as a human being and go through out your day to day life and not slip into the evils of other things such as heroin that could completely destroy your life than good for you! i was really just trying to make a point to people that have never used suboxone before to be careful getting on a maintenance program for a long period of time, because it definitely isn't going to be easy to get off of it. i wish you all the best and will pray for all of you in your recovery.

Today is my 7th day of no oxycodone and 4th day of no suboxone... i am so close to getting over this crap i can feel it! feel it in my bones and muscles and they kind of hurt :( a little withdrawal symptoms today but i know if i stay strong i can get over them. every hour i think about doing oxycodone again... it sucks so bad. i know im strong enough not to do it but the thought keeps lingering in my head, it was even so hard to sleep last night i had to take 2mg of xanax for the restless legs and to get to bed. please pray for me guys im going to need it to stay off of this, i know i am already half way over the hump and the worst of it, but it is till hard as fuck. please help me with some words of wisdom. thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:16 pm 
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Philip,

The feelings of still wanting to do Oxy are completely normal, remember you only have 7 days off of them. The initial cravings are going to be the worst, they were for me anyway. Try to get outside, try to do something when those feelings hit. If you pay attention, you'll notice those feelings don't last forever. You have to practice getting them to subside.

Do you have a counselor? Have you considered going to NA or AA? I found my addiction counselor to be very helpful. He taught me a lot about how the addict brain works and that in turn gave me some power over the disease.

Sleep distrubances are a very common side effect of opiate withdrawal, so are Restless Legs. I know those symptoms suck, but hang in there. You can do this!


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