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 Post subject: Suboxone Withdrawal
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:59 pm 
Hi guys. My name is Tim and I wanted to share my experience with beating suboxone... i used painkillers over 3 years which lead to buying $75 worth of heroin atleast a day.... i was put on 16mg suboxone for a few months and tried to stop. Brutal withdrawal. I tried tapering my dose down to 2mg/day and still had same withdrawal.

Here are my experiences with beating it....

I took the following on a daily basis (you will have to adjust your dosages/etc on your own)

- L-tyramine -- provides energy/focus -- do not exceed 2000mg/day and expect some diahrea at first...

- Melatonin -- helps with sleeping.... experiment until you find a good dose that helps you sleep.

- Valium/xanax/klonopin/klonodine/ativan... any of these "benzos" are good especially for that restless legg feeling at night...... if you use xanax, be warned and try to use as little as possible and only when you need it because it has the highest potential of all the benzos for dependency. you don't want to get hooked on that either...

- Multivitamins + a b-6 + a b-12 (i used centrum for the multi) but you need additional vitamin b

- Lots of orange juice/water/caffeine. LOTS of fluids help...

- Carnation instant breakfast--its a drink, but gets nutrients in you that you would of missed because of lack of appetite.

- HOT SHOWERS!! JACUZZI VISITS!! SAUNAS!! THis provides unbelievable relief.


********* USE THIS INSTRUCTION WITH CAUTION. ITS NOT RECOMMENDED UNLESS YOU ARE POSITIVE YOU CAN CONTROL THIS!!! ********** I had a friend supply me with weak morphine pills.... I took the smallest dose that would just make me feel less sick from the suboxone, but not high. do not abuse.... doing a small SMALLLLLLLLLL amount of an opiate can actually counter the suboxone, without prolonging your detox off of suboxone. just make sure you dont end up getting addicted to another drug....


Pineapple, nuts, bananas, eggs, salads. REsearch foods that contain high levels of serotonin and make a habit of eating atleast a small salad (Spinach is best!) every day. it will help i promise!


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 Post subject: Re: Suboxone Withdrawal
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:05 pm 
I am not a doctor... just trying to help people out. please only use my information for what it is, i make no guarantees that its going to solve the pain but it will hopefully make things easier for you like it did me.

Even if you have to take seroquel, or klonopins/valiums just to "knock yourself out" to get rest, its worth it. My biggest problem was not being able to sleep which led to complete lack of energy and a horrible night of squirming in my bed every 3 minutes trying to get comfy.

remember to do physical activity.... situps, pushups, lifting weights, swimming, even sexual activity.....



best of luck to everyone and i will be glad to answer questions on here.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:24 pm 
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miragextazy, whew that screen name is a tongue twister. Congratulations!!!

How long ago did you quit?

I like your advice, especially the lots of sex part...no, not just because my name is Romeo...it really, really helps. Sex releases dopamine and that dopamine acts on the pleasure center of the brain. Eating also releases dopamine. I think exercising releases endorphins?? Can't remember.

Anyway, good advice. Thanks so much for sharing.

I have to throw one more Congratulations in there...one just wasn't enough!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:33 pm 
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It's so weird how taking small amounts of other Opiates can help withdrawals, I always thought that and opiate receptor getting filled was bad and only lengthened the WD's but a buddy of mine somehow used Vicodin to help with his WD's and it didn't make the time last longer it just made it easier but this is very dangerous to do unless you have good self control which most addicts don't. Also would like to know how long it took you to feel "normal" and return to natural sleep, I am on day 7 and I still can't sleep but otherwise im decent.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:59 pm 
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Thanks inned for reminding me to talk about taking another opiate while in wd. I took Lorcet during the first few days after I quit sub. I think it helped...but, a huge BUT...be careful!! I was playing with fire and I knew it. I can't be a hypocrite and tell people not to do what I did, but I do have to urge extreme caution!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:34 pm 
I last took suboxone a week ago. I am not off it, but ive made it much more bearable.
I no longer want to rip my head off and stick it in a blender....

The risk is minimum. Just remember you want to get better and not get high. Do as little as you possibly can! I only did enough morphine until I stopped feeling the restless leg syndrome and skin crawling.... I still felt bad, but it was bearable. It was kind of like having a normal flu/cold, and not a suboxone/heroin withdrawal version of the cold/flu.

Also, the other vitamins/supplements I mentioned make the world of difference.
Wake up with a nice long bubble bath -- hot and steamy.. or sit in the shower and just relax.
If you can go to a pool and get in a real jacuzzi, even better! ***SAUNAS ARE HEAVEN!

I am currently working on a website to try and help people get off of suboxone...


***PLEASE REMEMBER THIS **** IF YOU TRY MY OPIATE METHOD******
I can not emphasize enough that you must make sure you only do enough to feel better. Don't get greedy and let your inner-addict take over, and try doing more..... JUST DO ENOUGH TO IMPROVE HOW YOU FEEL. Only do enough until you feel like you can better manage the feeling... you all know what I mean. For example, I only did enough until I felt like I could deal with it without going nuts..... my biggest problem was restless leg syndrome and the inability to get comfortable/lay still in my bed, let alone sleep.


ALSO
------
I highly suggest you guys try Kratom. It is sold in liquid tincture on several websites. Just search for "kratom liquid tincture" and make sure it is labeled as "full spectrum". This is used allover asia and I myself use it as well.


I am making a website to help spread the knowledge about suboxone... and help people get off it using alternative methods that would probably be considered crazy by some. but of all the stuff I've tried, this is best.



My AIM name is same as my screename here. Feel free to IM me :)
I will keep checking this forum if anyone has questions!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:39 pm 
1) Do not use every day or constant regular basis
2) ONLY USE ENOUGH TO JUST FEEL A TINY BIT BETTER SO THAT ITS BEARABLE
3) DOn't let yourself get addicted...


With morphine it is easy because, I've done lots of morphing (10x as much as ive been using for suboxone withdrawal) for like 6 weeks straight, and went thru withdrawal... and was only a few days long and not nearly as bad. not saying you should get do this, im just telling you this because you won't have withdrawal from opiate use when you keep it to a minimum


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:53 pm 
So, just a small question. Are you saying people shouldnt be taking suboxone? Or am i misunderstanding your post? Thanks for your info by the way!!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:10 pm 
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:twisted: Are you people nuts? :twisted:
Here's a much better idea. DO NOT take MORPHINE,HYDROCODONE,KRATOM & VALIUM
to try and get off suboxone! :evil: That is what got you here…sheesh!
Just stay on a very low dose of suboxone. Problem solved. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:55 pm 
Suboxone can be a miracle drug but doctors either are told the wrong information so people get stuck on it .... I mean seriousely, how does suboxone make money if everyone stops taking it and it does "its job" ? I know someone that was a hardcore heroin addict, and went to a expensive private rehab.... and all they did was put him on 16mg suboxone first day, then over 6 days went down to 12, 8, 4, 2, 1 and he was off of it without withdraw from either heroin or suboxone.

I am not saying use opiates to get off of suboxone..... im saying responsibly use it as a way to make it less painful and more realistic to get off. All I am saying is that taking a tiny amount of opiates knowing you don't want to get high, not taking enough to get anywhere near high (Cause it wont work anyway) and NOT ENOUGH to form a dependency.... helps with suboxone's withdraw symptoms.


You need to want to quit using everything.... using a tiny amount of a opiate to alleviate withdraw symptoms of suboxone is not getting hooked on another... the suboxone will still continue to exit your system..... taking a unbelievably small dose of a opiate isnt going to get you hooked or interfere with suboxone withdrawal.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:09 pm 
I didnt use sub for detox purpose's only. It has given me the time to get my life in order and get ahead in life. Sure i didnt want to go through withdrawals off of my DOC but the main thing sub has done for me is give me my life back. I think your mocking what suboxone is or possibly being a smart A when you say, taking a small amount of opiates knowing you dont want to get high(cause it want work anyway). And anyways, i think its highly rediculous to come on here telling people to take a tiny amount of a full agonist to come off of suboxone. What are your intentions here cuz they seem a bit off? If im wrong, i'll gladly admit it but you seem pretty negative toward sub. I've been taking sub for 19months and things couldnt be better in my life. If it aint broke, dont fix it is the way i see it. Meaning, sub is making my quality of life so much better so why would i get off it at this point? One day i will but im not in any rush. I guess im just tired of sub haters coming on here trying to be slick an sneaky with their little condecending comments.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:45 pm 
Lifesaver I think he was being genuine because it is a pretty common thing for people to ween off of long lasting maintenance drugs with hydrocodone or other short acting opiates to lessen the blow. It would be real hard for me to do that on my own though, a trusted person would have to be holding the pills otherwise I would probably take more then I needed. Ive heard of people using codeine or tramadol to ween off suboxone or methadone. Im getting quite concerned actualy about how hard it will be for me to get off suboxone, actualy thats one of the reasons Im gonna get on methadone because Ive heard suboxone has a pretty similar withdrawal to methadone and may only be slightly easier, this info was from a friend who has been on both for maintenance in the past.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:12 pm 
Oh its kool. I understand what you mean. I just got the feeling that the poster of this thread was trying to say that people should get off this stuff and that nobody should be taking it. And also i think he was being a smartass about what suboxone really is by saying the whole thing about, taking a small amount of opiates knowing you dont want to get high(cause it wont work anyway) as he said it, that is basically what suboxone does. YOu take it cuz you know it doesnt get you high and as he says, it want work anyways, i think hes talking about suboxone and not some other opiate as he says, therfor talking shit. I could be wrong but my BS radar has been lighting up lately pretty hard. If im wrong i will gladly admit it and apologize. I've just recently seen a few newcomers that make sneaky little condecending comments about suboxone and my BS radar is a bit sensitive but its very much on point most of the time and i usually follow my instincts with this type of thing lol. But ok kool. Sub hater or not, it will come out eventually if he is and if he isnt, i will give him a formal apology. Im just a bit short fused at the moment, please forgive me. Sorry


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:41 pm 
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lifesaver wrote:
Oh its kool. I understand what you mean. I just got the feeling that the poster of this thread was trying to say that people should get off this stuff and that nobody should be taking it. And also i think he was being a smartass about what suboxone really is by saying the whole thing about, taking a small amount of opiates knowing you dont want to get high(cause it wont work anyway) as he said it, that is basically what suboxone does. YOu take it cuz you know it doesnt get you high and as he says, it want work anyways, i think hes talking about suboxone and not some other opiate as he says, therfor talking shit. I could be wrong but my BS radar has been lighting up lately pretty hard. If im wrong i will gladly admit it and apologize. I've just recently seen a few newcomers that make sneaky little condecending comments about suboxone and my BS radar is a bit sensitive but its very much on point most of the time and i usually follow my instincts with this type of thing lol. But ok kool. Sub hater or not, it will come out eventually if he is and if he isnt, i will give him a formal apology. Im just a bit short fused at the moment, please forgive me. Sorry


Yeah, I agree my buddy took small amounts of subox to get off subox and he said it didn't set him back, he had to wait the first 5 days and tough it out but with the lingering RLS and insomnia and a full time job he had to get some sleep and this way he wouldn't pop all of his WD support to get high. I am at 8 days and sleep is still an issue a long with some other shit that I hate but can't imagine even risking reseting this process. Honestly it sucked but it was no where near the amount of pain I was in without smoking my Oxy's.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:00 pm 
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I would encourage anyone who is scared about the Sub withdrawal process to read the Liquid Taper thread, my story is there and later in the thread are the stories of several other members who used the method successfully. Matt's taper thread is a good example of a successful rapid taper.

Reading a bunch of horror stories about Sub withdrawal is only going to provoke anxiety and negative feelings about tapering. If you are considering tapering, or even just thinking about the possibility of stopping Sub someday, my advice to you would be to focus on your recovery NOW. Work hard on whatever your issues might be, figure out what your triggers for using are and address them by coming up with different, healthy ways of dealing with the trigger. Then PRACTICE those coping skills. Get your life in order, set a few goals for yourself and take steps to realize those goals. Once you get pretty well into this process, you will probably find that your outlook about the possibility of tapering and stopping Sub treatment will change in significant ways. One day you will probably find that you are no longer scared shitless about the prospect of tapering. When that happens, you will know you are ready...or you will know that you want to stay on Sub, whatever.

A note about using full-agonist opiates to help withdraw from Suboxone: I don't doubt that it works to a certain extent, but I feel obligated to point out that when you play with fire, you're more likely to get burned.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:39 am 
before i respond to some peoples stuff, i learned a little trick near the end of my suboxone era..... i dont know about you all but my big problem when i tried lowering my dose was at night time when in bed... i would have the worse restless leg syndrome and my body felt like my skin was crawling and i couldnt sleep whatsoever.... so then i tried taking my suboxone right before bed and problem solved! It's best to take your suboxone at a time where its closest to sleepy time.

************************
Diary of a Quitter: I don't think tapering ever works. I tried several times to quit, once cold turkey from 16mg and then another time on 8mg..... my latest successful withdrawal was off of .5mg/day and i STILL had symptoms of withdrawal just like prior attempts. but power to you if it did man.
************************
ineed: I know someone that used suboxone with his suboxone withdrawal. the key to this, is to literally take a razor and scrape tiny pieces off of your pills.... and take just enough until you can barely notice you feel better. you don't want to take enough to feel good otherwise that WILL just prolong your withdrawal. so if you try this, just take a little scraping to the point you can sleep or just not feel like you want to stab urself in the eye with a spork.
************************
lifesaver: I do think people should get the hell off of suboxone.... it is not supposed to be for long term use, and I am willing to bet the doctor you got it through doesnt care about your treatment either. My doctor used to talk to me for maybe 2 minutes, write my script and that be that. He wrote me scripts for xanax, adderal, ambien and soma without questioning why i needed them too..... they just want money, and the more pills they got you hooked on the merrier.
************************
suboxOWNED: How old are you? can your parents help you by holding the pills? I know its hard as hell but once you get sick to a certain point, like sick of being on this stuff you can do it........ and as you said, tramadol is a great way to do it..... its not very potent, and people hardly get addicted to that.


People reading my original thread must think i am nuts but it does work.... suboxone lurks in your system for like weeks..... so while your withdrawing, taking like 10mg of vicodin won't do anything for you in regards to getting high, but it will make you not feel the withdrawal symptoms of suboxone for atleast 24 hours. I take 60mg of liquid morphine and i don't feel symptoms of w/d for a day or 2


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:45 am 
inneed wrote:
It's so weird how taking small amounts of other Opiates can help withdrawals, I always thought that and opiate receptor getting filled was bad and only lengthened the WD's but a buddy of mine somehow used Vicodin to help with his WD's and it didn't make the time last longer it just made it easier but this is very dangerous to do unless you have good self control which most addicts don't. Also would like to know how long it took you to feel "normal" and return to natural sleep, I am on day 7 and I still can't sleep but otherwise im decent.


Hey inneed sorry i meant to reply a few days ago.... the sleeping part SUCKS.... but if you can go to GNC or any supermarket, get this stuff called Melatonin. in addition, get benadryl or any sleep medicine that has "diphenhydramine" in it. Take 2-3 melatonin, and no more then 75mg worth of benadryl and it will help you sleep :)

Lots of time during withdrawal you feel crappy because your haven't been eating, but dont realize it... so make sure you force food down.... I always drank those carnation instant breakfasts which come in good flavors, and a lil oatmeal.... try to mainly eat fruits, vegges and some protein if you can get it down. dieting is a HUGE part of feeling better.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:01 am 
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I do think people should get the hell off of suboxone.... it is not supposed to be for long term use.


Thanks for being honest. But I must ask, who exactly says it's not "supposed to be for long term use"? Have you seen any of the recent studies that examine people staying clean who have been on sub long term vs short term? Well, the short term treatment (predictably) had an extremely high rate of relapse vs those on longer term treatment. And for people under age 30, the relapse rate is nearly 100%.

What is wrong with taking a medication that does not make one high or change them in any way, especially if that medication keep that person out of active addition and functioning in a very healthy manner? To me, suboxone is just another pill that I have to take everyday. That's all, nothing more. I look at it the same way I do my high cholesterol medication, my beta blocker, and even my anti-depressant.

I (and many, many others) would very much rather take this little orange pill everyday than return to active addiction. Opiate addiction is a disease that KILLS and suboxone treats it. Simple as that.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:05 am 
My posts were intended for helping people get off suboxone... not for telling people to get off...... suboxone is ok if you can live with having to be under the control of a little orange pill, and pay $250-300/month.... i am trying to join the navy so thats why i had to get off of it.... that and i just persoanlly didn't enjoy waking up every morning and having to suck on a little piece of hell .

People stay clean on suboxone because they can't get high lol! The naxalone or w/e the ingredient is prevents opiates from getting ya high so ofcourse their going to stay clean. Me personally, I didn't have a long story of addiction before suboxone...... it was more like me being stupid for 6 months and indulging. I got on suboxone cause i was afraid of dealing with the withdrawal. having gone thru suboxones withdrawal, I would never get put on suboxone again and just take the heroin withdrawal .


And finally, your still kind of being an addict as your now relying on a pharmaceutical pill versus street drugs. don't you just want to be clean of everything?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:07 am 
sorry if I was being harsh but I just really hate how the doctors and pharmaceutical companies distort the truth and get people hooked on it. i forget if I said this or not, but I've seen first hand suboxone being properly used in rehabs over a 7-10 day period.... without withdrawal.

If you're a serious addict and think you will just do drugs after getting off suboxone then by all mean stick to it!


In closing, my only intention here was to provide my own experience and information on a method of getting OFF of suboxone, not because i think everyone should get off of it, just my story. cause someone asked a question about it.


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