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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:31 am 
You are full of shit!! People do not avoid getting high with suboxone because they cant. They dont get high because suboxone takes them out of active addiction and allows them to live a normal, healthy life. Your on here to be a jerk and its not necessary. You can say your intent was to help people who want off of it yet you say, "I do think people should get the hell off of suboxone". Again your full of shit!! If you had good intent here you could have went about it a whole other way. People get off suboxone all the time with the help of this site and their doctor. Your coming on here with the attitude that people on suboxone should get off and thats just not always true. If that person is living a healthy, productive life and out of active addiction with the help of suboxone, then i see no harm in it. Sub has given me the chance to get away from all those so called "friends" and change my lifestyle habits so that when the day comes that i choose to stop taking sub, i will know how to live without drugs. I personally think your sub hater coming on here to stir up shit. You can use that whole, i was just trin to help routine all you want but you know what your doing and its just not right. Im quite sure people would consult their doctors if they want off the medication. Im sorry you've had a bad experience with this medication and with the doctor you had but dont come here taking it out on us. You may be able to fool some people with this shit but not me. If you want to bash sub, take that shit to the sub bashing sites. Let me be clear, this is not a sub bashing site. You kinda seem like one of those sub blamers too. All your prolems are because of sub right? Well, goodbye!! I dont have anything else to say to you other than, i know what your doing and you need to stop or take it somewhere else. Thank you for your time!! I really hope you get the help you need. If we can help you in anyway just let us know.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:20 am 
Sorry one more thing. You must have been watching too much "Dr. Drew" cuz for you to say sub is only meant for short term is a highly uneducated thing to say. If you did some research you will see that sub treatment short term is almost a guaranteed relapse. Long term has proven to be very successful. I know that first hand because i have been clean for 19 months with the help of sub. I am not in any way intoxicated. I am happy, productive, out of active addiction which by the way was just about to kill me and im free of that horrible hold that drugs had on me. I take sub the same as i take my daily vitamin. I have tried rehab after rehab and meeting after meeting with no success. Sub is the only thing that has kept me clean. I will choose taking sub and being alive any day. I just dont understand why people have such a problem with people who use ORT. People like you who send the message that people shouldnt take suboxone are gonna end up killing someone because they chose not to take suboxone due to some uneducated information. This medication is saving lives with or without you. I just hate to see when people think so negatively about it because they had to go through withdrawal. You had to know that it would give you withdrawal. I guess this is like talking to a deadhorse. You will probably feel the way you do no matter how successful this medication is and how many lives it saves.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:25 am 
The nalaxone is only a deterent to keep people from shooting it up. The buprenorphine is what blocks opiates. I take subutex without the nalaxone and i've been clean for 19 months so sayin, "the nalaxone is why people dont use" is just stupid and as i've said, a very uneducated thiing to say. You dont even seem to know what you are talking about. Im sorry i've been so harsh as well but so many people come on here saying suboxone is so terrible etc etc. Just because a select few people werent successful they like to come on here an try to ruin it for everybody else. Its just wrong!!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:04 pm 
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I find it intersting how most of the sub haters that have visited the forum lately are fresh off of sub. They made the decision to quit and are now going through withdrawal and I believe that has a lot to do with their all over the map attitudes. There's a certain I'm better than you attitude that comes oozing out of their posts.

Unfortunately, I found myself in the same boat as these folks when I quit. I was mad at sub and the mis-information surrounding it. I didn't do my homework as far as sub was concerned. I thought it would magically eliminate my addiction and I would never have to go through withdrawal from it. I was mad at anyone who was still on sub because I was JEALOUS of them...here I had to go through wd and these people are still on sub. Part of it was me wanting to 'save' everybody from the mis-information about sub, but MOST of my feelings were due to JEALOUSY. In my screwed up little brain, if I was going to quit sub...everybody should.

Thank God I had the presence of mind to keep my big damn mouth shut when I first found this forum. Instead of sending offensive messages, I read first. Imagine that, I tried to educate myself better about sub and in the process I realized what a horses ass I had been for hating sub...it saved me. How in the hell could I be so mad at something that just saved me...because I had to go through wd...Boo fucking Hoo...it was worth it and I'd do it all over again the exact same way if I had to.

Hopefully, as your recovery proceeds, you will have the same change of heart that I did.

Sincerely,

Romeo (I'm a former sub hater who finally pulled my head out of his butt and saw the light. BTW, it took both hands and a John Deere tractor, but it finally popped loose)


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:43 pm 
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Romeo, can I just say that I love you a little bit right now? Awesome post.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:20 pm 
I must say Romeo, your much nicer than i could have ever been. I just get so tired of people who come here an try to ruin it for everybody else or try to push their ideas onto others. Well, this guy didnt really do it as bad as i've seen in the past but this along with the others i've read in the past few days just put me over the edge. So, i apologize in a sense, for being harsh but im just aggravated at this concept people take on that sub is bad an people shouldnt be taking it. Go tell it to someone who wants to hear it. I highly doubt anyone here wants to hear sub negativity. Thanks for laying it down just a bit easier on the ears than i did!! lol


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:30 pm 
lifesaver: My last post was made a bit drunk, and i didn't mean to be an ass.............. I just think that suboxone and the doctors should either be more informed, or not lie/manipulate.... I clearly asked my doctor "how hard would it be to get off?" and he made it sound like a walk in the park... then I stopped taking it, and all hell breaks loose.... made me wish I never got on suboxone and just dealt with my DOC's withdrawal. I only had a 6 month long period where I actually " was addicted " or " abused " my DOC, so its probably a whole new story when it comes to people with worse backgrounds........... i wasn't trying to be a dick man... I was on suboxone for like 4 times longer then I was using...... so... that to me was not cool at all...

I can totally understand if you want to take the pill as a maitenance/preventative measure... i am only here to help people that are trying to quit, not convince people to stop using.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:51 pm 
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"My last post was made a bit drunk"

Well that's great. Has anyone explained to you the concept about switching addictions and the fact that it's rarely a good idea for opiate addicts to drink alcohol? I'll not even get into the many other questionable comments you have made, but on top of that, now you're getting drunk and posting these things to the rest of us working on our sobriety? WOW. I mean, wow, that pretty much speaks volumes.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:04 pm 
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I realize that none of us can convince anyone else of anything...and that is not why we are here. But I do have to comment on this thread with so much of this poly pharmacy being doled out. It is a slippery slope and dangerous for addicts. Getting off sub or staying on Sub....each individual has to make that decision armed with knowledge and understanding of their own bodies, their own addictions and histories and what they want for their futures. How we get off Sub or methadone or whatever it is we are getting off of is a personal choice as well.
But for me, I know that it is best to keep it simple. When I was getting off the 75mg methadone maintenance I had been on for 2 1/2 years I did use vicodin. I used 6 (5mg tablets)of them over 6 days. I didn't want to, but I was so terrified of methadone withdrawal since I jumped at 75mg. Had I not heard horror stories I probably wouldn't have psyched myself out so much. And what I did when i took that vic was, and this is only me, my choices, tell my doctor before hand exactly what my plan was. It was tricky because i had to first get the vicodin and obviously he wasn't going to write me a rx for it. So, in that regard I am unhappy with my decision....having to use that behavior to get it and I told my doctor how I did it and I talked about it a lot to make sure I didn't continue doing that kind of thing. But i chose to do that. My sub dr. ok'd me using the vic's to ease my symptoms of w/d from methadone. I, luckily for me, was determined enough to succeed and was ready to do the switch and all of that...and had been in counseling and going to meetings (my program only) that I didn't over use the vic. Obviously I was super conscious of what I was doing and it may sound like overkill to some but oh well. I feel fortunate that it turned out ok. If I ever had to do it again I'd give them to someone to dole out to me. I know me. And after i used that last vicodin I flushed them in the toilet. I also had someone count them with me and when I was doing this I also brought them in for my sub dr. to see.
This sounds like a hassle, a lot of work, maybe, but for me accountability is crucial. My brain can easily go into an addict mode if I am not honest. Again, this is just me. My switch to sub went very well and I am very happy I did this. I also took melatonin to sleep for about 3 days during detox from methadone and for about 2 more days while inducting on Sub. I asked my Sub dr before hand and have told him every single thing I am thinking of doing. He is very much a keep it simple guy and wouldn't write for even Clonodine for sleep or increased blood pressure during w/d from methadone.

I really worry when I hear others encouraging people to take lots of different kinds of meds...benadryl, melatonin, opiates, valium....that may have worked for some but personally it would scare me to death to be doing that. Many chemical dependency treatment centers don't allow benadryl....it is not mood altering but its more the psychologic crutch and it usually gives people a hung over feeling...not all feel that but many do. I'm not saying we have to suffer while we taper, detox or whatever. We don't. I'm just saying that it might be worth thinking about and talking about with your physician and making sure we are accountable to someone for the meds we decide to take. Just a thought...just my opinion...poly pharmacy, taking a bunch of different things, really complicates matters. Our brains need a rest. A reprieve from all of that.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:09 pm 
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miragextazy,

I was pretty sure that's what was going on, only because I've been there before...not the drunk part...thank the Lord above I can't stand alcohol. Anyway, you need to let go of that anger towards your doctor, towards sub and towards the whole world...it's only going to make your recovery that much harder, believe me.

I know it sucks hard that we believe we were mislead, but really, what good does it do you now. It's done and over with.

You know what I did to try and stop the mis-information about suboxone...I joined this Forum and try to keep an eye out for people considering suboxone and I try to tell them both sides of the story. It's a kick ass (that means really, really good) medicine, but there will probably be some withdrawal if they decide to stop taking it.

When I'm not doing what I mentioned above, I try to help out in any other way possible here. My anger suddenly disappeared when I did these things and my recovery moved forward by leaps and bounds!


Last edited by Romeo on Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:11 pm 
miragextazy said "I am only here to help people that are trying to quit, not convince people to stop using."

I know it seems like im picking you apart but look at the things you are saying. Do you really think were "using" by taking sub? Like i said, i truly believe you are here to hate on sub. We are not "using" by taking sub. It take us out of active addiction. I just dont understand how someone could hate something so much when you made the choice to put that tablet under you tongue, not you doctor. I do however believe you when it comes to "some" doctors not being properly educated. That is a fact and im sure no one will argue with that. However, that doesnt mean the medication is to blame. The medication is doing its job and saving lives every day with you or without you. As i've already said, just because you didnt like the way it worked dont try to ruin it for everyone else. Thanks and again if im being too harsh, i apologize but it just pisses me off when people start blaming the medication.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:18 pm 
I've been most angered by you because what your doing is absolutely counterproductive. If you were here to help people, you would/could have done so much differently and thats why i know you are not here strictly to help people and that is a real shame because its possible you could very well help someone if you could get rid of the anger toward the medication.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:58 pm 
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WOW, Chinagirl... I continue to really be impressed by your posts. Not that others are not contributing greatly as well, because they are - especially Romeo. You just really seem to be on a very good track and have a great amount of knowledge - especially given the fact that you are still pretty new to all of this. Many could learn a lot from you. Are you paying attention miragextazy?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:32 pm 
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Miragextazy....you were DRUNK? Wish i would have known that before I posted....all I can say now about your posts is 'consider the source'.

Wow Dohn...thanks. I am just feeling so great about the change and getting myself back! As I said, methadone maintenance did its job, but for me long term use is not compatible with a positive life. i did have cognitive deficits...I'd really like to study long term sub use on cognition. I certainly don't want to get to where I was with methadone while on Sub. (memory, blunted emotions etc...) I feel so normal on sub. I want to kick myself for being on methadone but...oh well...can't do anything about it now!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:27 pm 
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Thanks donh,

You're too kind and you're a class act.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:03 am 
**EDIT: Chart/Graphic has been removed by forum moderators.

This chart might be confusing.... but basically:

The first few days you want to try and not use benzos like xanax, klonopin, etc. Put up a fight, last as long as you can. the longer you can go without using any the better! In this time though, feel free to indulge into the stuff I listed....

- Sexual activity
- L-tyrosine
- B vits
- Good multivitamin
- Niacin (non flush)
- melatonin!


After you move forward, it is imperative to get a prescription. I recommend klonopins because they are subtle and not as :intense: as xanax, and not nearly as habit forming..... I prefer klonopin and seroquel. When you're feeling really down in weather and dont know what to do, pop a seroquel and go to sleep it off..... you will wakeup feeling fresh and rejuvinated. and.... you can scratch an entire day off of your withdrawal if you take two and add a xanax or something, hehe

be responsible. don't eat the drugs like candy. learn about your reactions to each, and do what you think is best. you can do it. I will always bee here for questions but i am no god........ i look forward to perhaps answering/helping anyone out there that needs help getting off of suboxone.

****************************** THIS IS NOT A HATE MESSAGE. PLEASE DO NOT FORWARD ME YOUR BULLCRAP ABOUT HOW I ADA YADA im getting sick of it. I just am trying to talk to pepole seeking help withdrawing. PERIOD. Go troll elsewhere.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:10 am 
Look here, i will give you straight shit to tell you the truth!! You are on here tellin people to pop more pills!! Saying, "dont be shy to take more than prescribed." Sounds like addict behaviour to me!! You are crazy as hell!! You clearly are not thinking right due to this withdrawal you claim to have or did have so im gonna cut you just a bit of slack. Well, what the hell nevermind the slack. You are sittin here telling people to take more pills and to ignore what your doctor says, take more than prescribed. You must have been drunk or high on all those pills your taking when you wrote this. That i'll take into condideration as well. But still, you are crazy to come here telling people this shit and i do mean SHIT!! It may have worked for you but for some people, this is a recipe for disaster. Telling people to go and lie to a doctor to get more pills an not follow the doctors orders. Maybe not word for word but thats what your saying. You may very well "think" your tryin to help but you are givin some really toxic advice. I really think you should re-evaluate what your doing!!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:45 pm 
haha you are sad.... so that's why I feel rejuvinated and havent the tinyest withdrawal symptom present? because my method is a hoax..... your just fucking jealous because you like many are stuck on usin suboxone for the rest of your fucking life


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:47 pm 
I never said lie to a doctor... i said tell the doctor exactly what the fuck your going through with the withdrawaal, and they should happily prescribe you a anxiety med. retard.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:07 pm 
Ha your crazy and i knew you were here for trouble. I was just waiting for you to show your true colors. Im not stuck on shit. Im sure as hell not jealous!! Jealous of what? You? No thanks my life is just fine where its at. So, maybe its possible i misunderstood you when you said something about if you dont have sleep problems you might as well tell the doctor you do, because you will. I'll give you that. I misunderstood you but that dont even matter because my main point was that your telling people to take pills and not to be shy an take more than prescribed. Thats addict behaviour. You are crazy if you think im jealous of you. I dont even know you. I only know how you have come across on here an it doesnt seem sincere. Thats where the whole issue sparked up. I would rather you be here to help people in the right way. What do you mean i think your way is a hoax? I never used any of those words. I just dont believe your sincere with your approach and the things you've said like, dont be shy take more than prescribed. Thats what got people in the position their in. Anyways, you can think what you want but i have got my shit together and if anything, your just pissed of cuz your in withdrawal. So, you take your anger out on someone else. I havent truly said anything that much out of the way other than how i feel. So, for you to go to the extent you did in the last 2 post was unnecessary.


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