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 Post subject: Reading this thread....
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:45 pm 
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All,

I've been away from the site for a couple of months. Still taking Sub and life is pretty good. I simply wanted to say that I can't believe how "out of control" this thread became. I read every single post in this thread and most of them contain excellent information for addicts of every size, shape and color. I believe that the original poster was upset over some things going on in his life and took it out on Sub.

I have done the same exact thing, if thing in my life were not going great or I was not enjoying every second of my life then I always had Sub there to blame. But I know that Sub saved my life and many of my friends' lives as well. Although my best friend did not seek help soon enough, all of us that were there when he died learned a valuable lesson and knew even more so how important is was for us to stay on Suboxone or begin to seek treatment.

Everyone has different opinions, some posters agreed with the infamous ones posts, other criticized it brutally. But, in the end, we will all do what we think is best for us individually. Some of us will relapse (I couldn't tell you how many times I've relapsed over the years) and some of us will continue treatment as if nothing every happened.

Let this be another example of how some people can change your outlook on things for better or for worse. We should all learn something from these posts. Even though I was not active on the site when this took place I have learned a lot by reading them all.

Anyway, it's good to be back!

PAINguin

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 Post subject: Reconsidered...
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:04 pm 
I deleted this post because after consideration, I think it was wrong to say what I did. There are absolutely legit reasons to go off of Suboxone...and I didn't really consider the fact that someone could go right back on it if something were to happen. Whatever the case, each person knows their own heart and will make their own decision.


Last edited by jdhammond1982 on Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:55 pm 
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Jd,

How long have you been working for the suboxone manufacturers? You're saying that people should stay on suboxone forever? All people? All people of all ages should stay on suboxone forever? No matter what your addiction was you are now to stay on suboxone forever? You've got to be kidding me! Why not try? Why not try to be medication free? You can come back to suboxone...you don't have to relapse and start doing your old med again. If you feel like you can't make it as "normal" get back on subxone. Your way of thinking is baffling to me. You seem like the high school kid trying to get others to smoke pot because you want other people to be in it with you. Some people don't like the way suboxone makes them feel, me included....so I have to try to get off at some point. I'm in no huge rush becaues I want to do it right and do it when I'm ready but I don't want to live the rest of my life on suboxone. So don't discourage people from trying to get completely off of pills. It IS possible and people have done it. Yes there is a huge chance of relapse and all that other good stuff us addicts have to worry about for the rest of our lives but I for one will get off this drug at some point. And you should support that....or at least understand why people would want off.

D


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:56 pm 
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Jd,

How long have you been working for the suboxone manufacturers? You're saying that people should stay on suboxone forever? All people? All people of all ages should stay on suboxone forever? No matter what your addiction was you are now to stay on suboxone forever? You've got to be kidding me! Why not try? Why not try to be medication free? You can come back to suboxone...you don't have to relapse and start doing your old med again. If you feel like you can't make it as "normal" get back on subxone. Your way of thinking is baffling to me. You seem like the high school kid trying to get others to smoke pot because you want other people to be in it with you. Some people don't like the way suboxone makes them feel, me included....so I have to try to get off at some point. I'm in no huge rush becaues I want to do it right and do it when I'm ready but I don't want to live the rest of my life on suboxone. So don't discourage people from trying to get completely off of pills. It IS possible and people have done it. Yes there is a huge chance of relapse and all that other good stuff us addicts have to worry about for the rest of our lives but I for one will get off this drug at some point. And you should support that....or at least understand why people would want off.

D


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:58 pm 
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Go Seahawks.


Last edited by hawker1 on Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:44 pm 
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Oh Yawker, you had me. You had me going along with you 100% and then you had to go and blow it with that last comment. JD should no more be kicked off of the site than you should. Why did you say that?

Anyhow, I'll still give you a B+ on your post (would have been an A) as I very much agree with you. I too hope that someday I AM ABLE to stop this medication - just as I would stop taking any medication that I no longer need. That is different for me from when I first started Suboxone and my doctor told me I should be on it for life. When I heard that I thought he was nuts. I now agree that may have to be the case. Or perhaps I can stop at some point. And if I do, my exact plan is to be able to fall back to Suboxone if I need to - just like you suggest. The problem is, I'm not sure it works that simple. Fast forward a couple of years and something bad happens to me in my life and a day or two later one of my friends or relatives happens to have some Oxy this or that and I get my hands on it. Will I be able to not take those pills that are already in my hand and instead get in to see a doctor, get a script for Suboxone, get it filled, and take that instead? Sorry but that doesn't sound like any addict that I know - including me. So if/when I am able to come off of Sub, I really do have to be ready. My life has to be very much in order and so great that I would not want to risk going back to drugs. I'd actually have to be like an anesthesiologist or something with a great wife and family, head of the department, doing very well in remission, etc. Then I would be safe - right? Yeah, that is the story of Dr. J and we all knew what happened to him. Then again, he too is not currently on Suboxone (and never has been) and doing fine, so I agree with you it can be done. It just has to be well thought out, well put together, when you are very truly, honestly, ready. And sadly some people may never get there and in that case, life-long Suboxone is a much better idea than the alternative.

I'm sure that there are those addicts who really can stop Suboxone and never or rarely have any problems without it. I'm also sure there are some addicts that just will never go the long run opiate free if they stop Suboxone. The trick is figuring out which type of addict I am - or which type you are. You just never know when you are going to screw up and do something that you may regret - even though it just happened on impulse - sort of like a two sentence post that then hurts the near brilliance of many prior paragraphs. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:18 pm 
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Hawker1 , I'm also a Tramadol guy, after my spine surgery I could not stop... Got up to using 19 ( 50mg ) pills per day, I dont know what it is with Tramadol, but I could have gotten so many other pain pills FREE, but I only bought Tramadol..I undrerstand you. I also will stop using suboxone some day, I,ve only been on it for 4 months now. They say the longer your on it the tougher it will be to get off.. The problem is I think it works like a anti-deppressant, I stopped taking it for 3 days 3 months ago, I cant ever remember feeling that BAD... I believe a lot of the big posters on this forum have more 1st hand experience than we might want to believe, I thank all for posting, Mike


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:51 pm 
All I can say is DITTO to what donh just said!
Dang, you all know that aint true! I can never just make a one-sentence post!!
Seriously, I totally agree with donh. Nobody needs kicking off in my opinion! Everyone gets fired up sometimes and takes it a little too far.
I understand JD's passion about his opinion on the issue of Suboxone for life. For heaven's sake, his stance is pretty much what Dr. Junig has said all along. Further....you don't have to be employed by or receiving kickbacks from the dang drug company to have a strong opinion about staying on Sub! I'm about sick of that one!! The "digging your own grave" comment - well, that's a little harsh. Perhaps we could avoid statements like that. However I don't think JD seriously is wishing death on anyone by making that comment.
Bottom line to me is....just about everyone who has commented on this thread has had something of value to say. The rules of the forum are clear: Please show respect for the decisions of others. We can discuss and share what our decisions are, but personal attacks are not necessary.
Since we're getting personal, I'd like to some day get off Suboxone. I'm in no hurry. Again, pretty much like donh, that's my hope, but if it doesn't turn out that way and I and my doctor feel I need it forever - so be it. I think there are so many variables involved that you can't just throw out blanket statements and expect to cover every single person who has found themself in the grips of addiction or dependence on opiates. Sure, some things, statistically, we pretty much know for sure. But there are almost always exceptions.
Whatever your drug of choice was, however long you abused drugs, however bad your suffering of withdrawal has been, whoever you are....if Suboxone has helped you or is helping you - we all at least have that much in common.
And we're all lucky to have this place to come and talk openly about it all! Right? Right.


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 Post subject: Again...
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:45 pm 
On second thought, I decided to edit this post because after reconsideration I see things differently. Every person knows their own heart, and who am I to tell someone how to run their recovery? But just be careful, and keep in mind that the disease of addiction is really deceptive. Best to all!


Last edited by jdhammond1982 on Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Once again...
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:47 pm 
Decided to delete after reconsideration. To each his own, and all that. 8)


Last edited by jdhammond1982 on Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:57 pm 
One of my big things during my addiction was this drive to hurt myself. I believed I was bad, and that I deserved nothing good in my life. I think many addicts believe they are worthless, because of bad childhoods or whatever. So now that we've found this medicine, we should be kind to ourselves. And I'm finding I have to teach myself not to keep these thoughts of self-hatred. It's a nasty habit, but over time these negative thoughts diminish. That's one of the things I like about Suboxone, it buys time to deal with this stuff.
JD


Last edited by jdhammond1982 on Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:58 pm 
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I will respond more in a few but I respectfully retract my comment about kicking JD off the site. I didn't mean that. I just don't like someone telling people they are digging their grave by trying to get off of sub.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:34 am 
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I don't want to get in the middle of a pissing contest, but would like to throw my two-addicted-cents out there.

I KNOW me and KNOW if I ever go off Suboxone my cravings will come back. I have zero plans to go off it in the near future. I abused medications that I needed for two chronic, incurable pain conditions; which means I'll need pain control the rest of my life. The suboxone keeps most of my cravings away, but it also makes my pain more manageable - much more so than when on opiates, that's for sure. And with the tolerance I had, a relapse would be life-threatening for me.

I understand others don't feel the same way and I have no disrespect for other such opinions. This is just me...


Melissa


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 Post subject: I was wrong, also...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:45 am 
That was very generous of you, Hawker. Now it's my turn: I'm kind of a hothead sometimes, and to be honest I really hadn't thought out my statement all that well before I said it. The purpose of me saying that people shouldn't go off was SINCERELY because I am afraid for them. But you are are absolutely right: you can go back on sub, and i didn't think about (duh!) the fact that most of those that taper off will probably keep a private stash of Subs just in case.
I'm (admitedly) a Suboxone fanatic. But it's because it works!!! Oh my god, the last 12 years of my life have been a never-ending, bottomless hell that I have gone through, dragging my friends and family all the way. Everytime I thought I reached rock bottom, painkillers took me to a new pit of despair. I mean, I had really given in to the fact that I was going to spend my life in prison or that I would just overdose and die in the next year or so. So now that I found Sub, it's like I have this tunnelvision that it's "all good" and it's hard for me to see why anyone would go off of it. But I know you guys have legitimit reasons.
So from now on I'm going to mind my own business about other people staying on or going of the Subs. I hope there's no hard feelings with anyone.
JD


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:53 am 
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I don't think JD should be kicked off.

Some are going to agree with him, some will disagree and some will be in between.

I was told by my neurologist that I would prob have to take some sort of opiate for years to come or more likely for the rest of my life. I know I could never control my other scripts for my severe chronic pain. I became an addict. Now in recovery, I can take suboxone as I am supposed to and use it as a tool for my recovery. Also, being a very strong narcotic, originaly made for chronic pain and used for ~30 years in Europe and even in the States for chornic pain as Buprenex, it MUST help somewhat with my pain. Maybe not for everyone, but I think it allows me to manage my pain without chasing a tolerance that I could NEVER catch. I don't have the best pain control, but it is managed. I wish I would have done this years ago. I don't plan on coming off of suboxone anytime soon. In fact, if it is at all possible I would like to stay on it for the better part of the rest of my life.....or if it is practical, the rest of my life. I am ok with that. That is MY choice. ANYONE should be able to make that choice if it is the correct choice for them. If someone wants to come off for whatever reason, that is THEIR choice and I wish you all the luck from the bottom of my heart. It can and has been done....and more will do it. But also more and more will end up on long term maintainence too. And yes of course some who do taper off of sub will have to come back and that is more than fine. Much wiser than choosing active addiction again. Others will be able to taper off and be med free and that is wonderful!!! IF I could have done that I would have. But for me, support and suboxone plus my family and friends is what is working.

Not an arguement, just my opinoin and my choice. I am a recovering addict with severe chronic pain having much success from buprenorphine treatment and proud of it!!

Good luck to all

_________________
"The past is finished. There is nothing to be gained by going over it. Whatever it gave us in the experiences it brought us was something we had to know."----Rebecca Beard

"Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." ---Salvador Dali


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:03 pm 
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JD, I don't think that you have to stay silent about your thoughts and feelings. That is not the point. The lesson here perhaps is much more that your way is certainly not the only way and in some cases may not even be the right way. In the cases that it is the "right way", just keep in mind that it is the "right way" for you - and perhaps only for you. Everyone is different. Some may be able to stop Subs and stay off of opiates, while others may have to stay on Subs for an extended time and still others may need it for life. And guess what, they are all right - so long as it works for them.

Your experience and information is valuable as "one" of the ways to deal with opiate abuse. Don't stop sharing your thoughts. Just don't keep thinking your way is the only way to success.

Hope you'll continue to post and participate.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:22 pm 
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Well we all get a little hot headed at times:) Especially when it comes to such a big part of our lives.

JD i never quite got as deep in the pit as you did. I'm certain I would have eventually. I decided to go on subs when the tramadol seemed to just make me normal and I found my self taking my girlfriend's concerta. I took a few too many and had trouble breathing and had a panic attack and thought I was OD'ing. In reality I wasn't close to Od'ing but it scared me so much I decided to stop right hten and there and get on suboxone. My 2 years on sub have been better than my 5 years on opiates by a LOOOOONG shot. I think the world of the drug. I believe I have a shot at getting off everything and with proper planning, understanding, maintenance and focus can stay off. I think when you say the truth hurts you are right. But I think that should be more directed at folks who are uninformed and unrealistic. I haven't read all of the suboxdoc stuff like it sounds like you have but I have informed the hell out of myself in every other way. I understand what I'm up against and when I'm ready i'll be ready.

If i can't make it or have issues life on suboxone would be ok. I think if I had hit some of the lows you had i would view this whole thing differently.

I obviously won't suggest anyone be kicked off the site again...that was stupid. In fact I'll delete that post. Maybe I'll take a breath before posting next time. Keep posting and I will too...just make sure we both don't discourage anyone at any point....encouragement goes a long damn way.


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 Post subject: Catch 22
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:59 pm 
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Hi All!

Well.... I've been lurking on this thread. I know what I WANT, but I don't know what I NEED...

I go to the doctor - and I get a bunch of information about the 'disease' of Opiate addiction. I am given a prescription called suboxone to treat my disease. I get in trouble with the doctor when I refer to myself in any type of 'shame' or 'judgmental against myself' as that is not treating it like a disease.

BUT... I'm there for 3 months, in counseling, doing better than ever - and the doctor is like - OK, we are getting ready to tape you off right?

What the ??? Supposedly the doctors have been through training on this. They have limits on the patients they can treat. They tell us we have a disease, then quite quickly start talking about getting us to the place where the 'disease' can take us over again!

Sure, if the 'disease' is controllable by 'just say no' - I'm all for it. Where I am so dang confused is this whole notion of disease category. Is this like type2 diabetes where if I control my weight, my blood sugar is OK and I don't need insulin? OR, is this like a type1 diabetes, where I need insulin every day of my life?

Personally, the whole disease issue is confusing to me. Naturally, I want it to be like Type2 diabetes (therefore i taper off suboxone and all is OK - same as if I lost 50 lbs or something). But is that realistic?

Does this disease present differently in each person? Is it that I may have the 'you are OK off sub disease', but someone else has 'you are NOT OK off sub disease?'

Is anyone else confused about this? I feel like the only reasonable approach is to try the taper off method - and hope I'm in that category. It's just frustrating that they tag us with a disease, but can not come to consensus on what that means!

Does anyone feel this way too??


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:45 am 
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Hi,
I am feeling the same before some time but I searched a lot and I came to know about it in detail.
Mania is characterized by an extremely elevated mood and seemingly endless energy, a decreased
need for sleep, excessive irritability and anxiety, and strange or unusual thought patterns.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:28 pm 
Lathe- I'm not sure if you've found a solution to your problem of the doc that wanted you to taper off the Subs, but I just wanted to say that I personally feel that no doctor should ask a patient to taper off of Suboxone before he/she is ready. Some people will only need Subs a little while, but most will need them indefinately. You are correct: Addiction is a chronic disease requiring chronic treatment. However, this idea is not that widespread in the medical community yet, and that will take a little time. You should start looking for another doctor pronto.

chris- I'm not sure what you're talking about, could you elaborate? Thanks

jd


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