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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:31 am 
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Hey there,

I'm new here and haven't been on suboxone long (roughly 6 months) and the difference is I never had an opiate addiction to begin with. My two sisters did and I became depressed and began to take pieces of their strips and am desperately wishing to stop. I have read all over the net including this forum saying that the withdrawals are much worse than opiate withdrawal. Now obviously I don't know what opiate withdrawal feels like (I only know of the stories and witnessing my sisters pain and agony of the withdrawal) and I am scared to death.

My mom is trying to help me come off and the other day she came home from work and told me something interesting. She said that she talked to someone who had a daughter that was prescribed suboxone and the woman had said that if you are taking suboxone but never had an opiate addiction, the withdrawal won't be nearly as bad partly because when you come off sub, you are also experiencing the withdrawal from the opiate you were addicted to before. My question is, is this true or completely false?

- Erin


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:01 am 
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Hi Erin,

I uderstand your fear. It is hard to find ACCURATE information about suboxone withdrawal on the internet. You have come to the right place though, we won't sugar coat it, but we also won't over exaggerate it and scare you needlessly.

The first thing we need to know to answer your question is how long have you been taking the suboxone and how much have you been taking? You mentioned that you started out taking small pieces from your sistersm but did it escalate to higher doses?

The information your mother gave you is only partially true. If someone takes suboxone for a short time, for detox only, then they will be still dealing with the physical WD from their DOC. However, that isn't the case in most instances. Most people take suboxone long enough for all the Shorter acting opiates to clear their system, and then they are dealing with the physical aspect of the dependency to the suboxone when they decide to quit. On the other hand, the mental addiction to their DOC will still be there if they haven't addressed it in other ways, and that can definitely cause extra discomfort when they discontinue treatment. You WILL have a leg up there since you weren't an addict before starting suboxone. If you don't feel that you are addicted to the subs, only physically dependent on them, it will be easier for you to quit. But you will still go through the physical WD. There's just no way around that. I'm sorry.

So, if you can answer the questions I posed to you above, we can help you be prepared for what you will endure.

I also wanted to mention one thing. There have been people who have never been an addict who became one by misusing suboxone. It is definitely possible. Suboxone is still an opiate, and a VERY strong one. I just want you to be aware that just because you weren't an addict before, doesn't mean you haven't become one while using the suboxone. Only you know the answer to that.

I look forward to hearing back from you!

Q

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:09 am 
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The dr who started thos forum also has a blog called Suboxone Talkzone.please go over there and look for a posting intitaled Withdraw from Bupe an Suboxone..there you will find true answers to your ?'s... I believe yojr withdraw should be minor if tapered slowly..check out what Dr junig has to say and best of luck...im not a dr just a addict with 34 months on subs..i suggest the Talkzone over giving out adivce......razor.....


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:12 am 
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Hello Erin and welcome to the forum!

I don't happen to believe that Suboxone withdrawals are worse than any other opiate withdrawl, in fact I believe it's the other way around myself and withdrawals from other opiates are much worse. And I have plenty of experience to back that up too. I've been on both for years and the Suboxone withdrawals were much, much easier to deal with in my opinion.

I'm happy to hear you aren't taking or abusing other opiates, but would caution you about taking Suboxone as it's meant for addicts that want to end their addictive cycle and drug abuse, and not meant as a drug to get high from, or cure depression. I'm not judging you Erin, just giving you the benefit of a few years of wisdom and experience. Suboxone is a very strong and powerful opiate and nothing to just mess around with. Be very careful.

As for mom hearing the news....To say: "if you are taking suboxone but never had an opiate addiction, the withdrawal won't be nearly as bad partly because when you come off sub, you are also experiencing the withdrawal from the opiate you were addicted to before".

This statement would be false because once your on the subs any withdrawals from stopping would be from the subs themselves. The other opiates would be long gone. In your case you weren't taking any other opiates anyway so the withdrawals would be coming from only the subs. That's asuming a person has been on the subs for a while.

Bottom line is you didn't mention exectly how much sub you were taking Erin. You said you were taking "pieces" of your sisters strips which could mean any amount. But if you stop taking the sub cold turkey you are going to be having withdrawal symptoms most likely no matter how much you were taking, because you were taking it for about 6 months..

Depending on how much you are taking each day would depend on how it's best to get off it, and how severe any withdrawals may or may not be. Were you taking it for a day or so and then skipping several days, or taking pieces of sub every single day?

Tell us exactly how much you have been taking each day Erin and we will have a better idea how to advise you. You have been taking it for about 6 months as you said, so that means you probably have sub built up in your system that should be tapered down slowly to give you the best chance at the least amout of withdrawals. Give us more info and lets get you off that sub if that's what you want to do.

Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:42 am 
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Very good suggestion Razor!

You can find the link to the Suboxone Talkzone on the main index page of this forum.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:47 pm 
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First of all, thank you to those who replied, I'm really in need of the help :)

The question you all wanted me to answer is hard to answer quite honestly but I'm going to attempt to answer it as clearly as possible. I'm going to change my answer about how long I have been taking it because I thought about it really hard and feel like I've miscalculated. I would like to say that I have been taking sub all together for 8 months.

I am obviously clueless about what mg I take since I mentioned taking pieces only, so I used this video as my guide.
Okay, so my sisters are prescribed to 8mg strips of sub. Now obviously when I first began taking it, the piece was about 1/8 of a milligram and that would be .125mg. But obviously after quite a while I moved up to 1/4 of a milligram and again, moved up to as high as 1mg and after that I stopped feeling anything but continued in taking the 1mg daily for 5 months.



qhorsegal2 wrote:
I also wanted to mention one thing. There have been people who have never been an addict who became one by misusing suboxone. It is definitely possible. Suboxone is still an opiate, and a VERY strong one. I just want you to be aware that just because you weren't an addict before, doesn't mean you haven't become one while using the suboxone. Only you know the answer to that.

Yes, I am completely aware of this, I absolutely feel like I am addicted to the sub. I just wanted to make it clear that I was not an addict before I took it.
Brown Eyed Girl wrote:
I'm happy to hear you aren't taking or abusing other opiates, but would caution you about taking Suboxone as it's meant for addicts that want to end their addictive cycle and drug abuse, and not meant as a drug to get high from, or cure depression. I'm not judging you Erin, just giving you the benefit of a few years of wisdom and experience. Suboxone is a very strong and powerful opiate and nothing to just mess around with. Be very careful.

Honestly, it's too late for me I feel. I am pretty sure that I got myself addicted, and I do know what sub is for as I mentioned my sisters being prescribed. I just wasn't thinking and made a big mistake.
Brown Eyed Girl wrote:
Were you taking it for a day or so and then skipping several days, or taking pieces of sub every single day?

I was skipping days at first but that quickly turned into a daily thing.
I also would like to mention that I only take the sub at night around 10pm, I have never taken it during the day if that makes a difference.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:14 pm 
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Hey Erin,

When I said to be careful taking the Suboxone, what I meant was that you obviously have no experience to other opiates (a very good thing) so you haven't built up any kind of tolerance to them. And Suboxone is a CNS (central nervous system) suppressant which means it can affect your breathing.

Suboxone is extremely strong and powerful, and if you were to take too much being as intolerant as you are to opiates in general, it could cause you serious harm if you were to suddenly take a large dose of the sub. That's why I said to be very careful, I don't want any harm to come your way because I truly care about you!

So it's safe to say you have been taking about 1mg per day for about 5 months. That much can build in your system, and the long half life of sub keeps some hanging around. Your best bet is to begin tapering slowly and steady to get off with the best chance of having the least amount of symptoms. You can do this Erin.

I would suggest you begin reducing every 4-10 days, at the rate of about 10-20% each time. Your reduction schedule might look like this as an EXAMPLE....

1mg for 4-10 days....
.75mg for 4-10 days....
.50mg for 4-10 days.....
.25mg for 4-10 days....
.125mg for 4-10 days...
And then jump from that .125mg dose when ready.

Now this is only an example of a reduction plan. You might want to reduce by a lesser amount of sub. Find a way that works best for you and try to stick with it. Just make sure you are stable on each dose before reducing to the next. Your body will always let you know when it's time to reduce the dose.

You mentioned taking the sub around 10 pm each night. That's ok if it doesn't keep you awake. If it disrupts your sleep you may want to change the time and begin taking it earlier in the day, or perhaps in the morning? But if taking it at 10 pm works for you that's perfectly ok.

I gave you an example of what I would do if it were me Erin. Begin getting the dose steady, and reduce when ready by the amounts suggested, or make your own plan. If you need further help or have questions just let us know. We're all here to help any way we can! Good luck to you Erin!

Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:24 pm 
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Hey Scribbled,

Don't be too hard on yourself. Most of us start off taking some form of opiates to relieve depression, or some form of a chemical imbalance, subconsciously. To fill a whole within ourselves. Additionally, suboxone has anti-depressant like properties so I can imagine that it probably helped a bit. We have a few members here who are on it specifically for chronic, untreatable depression, and seem to be doing pretty well. That is a tough decision to come to though, and one that shouldn't be made lightly, because of the dependence issues that go along with it..

As far as previous opiates affecting withdrawals, this is mostly true when it comes to PAWs. There are two distinct phases of withdrawals, acute withdrawals (immediately following the discontinuation of the drug) and post acute withdrawals, which are the lingering symptoms that hang around while your brain and body are still repairing itself. Acute withdrawals are normally from which ever drug was stopped last, unless it was very short term. Post acute withdrawals can be affected by the overall time your body has been dependent on a chemical to feel normal.

My only suggestion is to taper down as low as you can go, at least to .25 or lower, and to go as slow as you need. The better adjusted you are to each dose drop, the better you should do with the next. Your withdrawals should be pretty mild in theory, considering the time you've been on it, and the nature of suboxone withdrawals in general, which are much more mild than other opiates (in very low doses of course..) Most people who speak of the horrors of sub w/d are probably speaking about stopping from high doses, in which case, it can suck ass. It also helps that you haven't been through w/d before, the more times you go through it, the more intense the symptoms can be.

Good luck and don't stress!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:36 pm 
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I think that the original question was answered fully. I just wanted to chime in about the comments about 'taking Suboxone only ' vs 'taking Suboxone after other opioids' in regard to severity of addiction, and whether one is 'addicted' to opioids.

First, I encourage people to avoid getting too hung up on words. Some people spend too much time, in my opinion, arguing over who is an addict and who isn't. The behavior, and the consequences of the behavior, are going to affect our lives more than any label.

Let me take the example of two people. One person buys oxycodone from the street and works up to 400 mg per day of OC, then transfers to heroin. After a couple years of regular use, the person gets on Suboxone---- he goes for a couple days with nothing to avoid precipitated withdrawal, and then gets on Suboxone for, say, 6 months. He works his way down to 8 mg buprenorphine per day.

The second person took some of his sister's Suboxone-- a tiny chip-- and liked it. Soon, he was taking a small chip every day. Over time his use got higher, so that he now has been taking 8 mg of buprenorphine per day.

Both people would be expected to have the same withdrawal. Withdrawal is a function of tolerance--- and some individual differences in genetics that we cannot predict at this point of our knowledge. It makes NO difference that one started on OC and took a lot, and the other took only buprenorphine and took less. The important thing is what their tolerance is NOW.

The only exception is that people seem to have worse withdrawal every time they have it. So if the person who only took buprenorphine went through withdrawal every 3 months, then restarted, his withdrawal might be WORSE than the person taking 800 mg of OC every day, without ever going through withdrawal.

this is the physical/chemical equation.... there are also psychological issues, that probably have greater effect on the likelihood of long-term sobriety, than on the magnitude of withdrawal symptoms.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:22 pm 
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Again everyone thank you for the feedback. I do have another concern though.

Brown Eyed Girl - I really like your planned schedule and it looks really appealing but my problem also is (that I failed to mention), I am having to come off of the sub pretty quickly due to the fact that my sisters and I no longer live in the same state. So before they left, they gave me some of their pills (2) and I have been sort of tapering (but I will admit that I screwed around and took what I normally did) and I have been tapering a bit just now. So far, I'm sweating a little, I experienced diarrhea, and stomach cramps.

So my question is, if I absolutely have no option and taper down quick from 1mg, how painful will my withdrawal be? I would imagine it will be extreme but I need the truth because my mom would like for me to "jump" after a small taper, but if you all can tell from your experience how bad that would be I could bring that to her and she may consider finding another way to get more to help me out and taper comfortably. She is extremely supportive but also just devastated that I was her only child that didn't use and now that's changed, so I just need some answers for both of us to help me get better. You all have been really great so far and I appreciate it, you also seem to reply rather quickly so I will look forward to more of your help :)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:10 pm 
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Erin,

It's almost impossible to answer your question truthfully about a quick taper down from a dose of 1mg. While I may have an extremely easy time of it, you may have it a bit more severe, and vice versa. Know what I mean?

It's like you may have a backache and say you can't move or do anything that day while I may say it's not too bad and able to do whatever I want to do. Every one of us is so different in the way things affect us. Withdrawals are no different. What may be tough for you may be very easy for me to handle.

It depends on so many things Erin. Things like a persons physical condition, metabolism rate, and other factors. It also depends on the amount of sub taken per day, and how long a person has been on subs. It just varies greatly from one person to the next.

That's why we say the BEST way most have found to get off with the LEAST amount of withdrawal symptoms is to taper slow, and to taper as low as possible. It takes as long as it takes ok. Might take 2 weeks, might take a month, but isn't it worth it to do what most do to get off the easiest and go slow, steady, and methodical?

With all due respect to your mom, it isn't her that is going to be going through the withdrawals, it's you that is Erin. I'm sure she is devastated like you say that you are in this situation, but I'm also quite sure she doesn't want to see you suffer needlessly either. Right?

Our best advice is again to taper rather slow as in the example given, and give yourself the best chance of getting out of this with the least amount of withdrawals possible. Up to you in the end how you do this. I wish you the very best with it. Please keep us informed along the way.

Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:21 pm 
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Hey SP,

I'm a bit confused on what you are saying your dose has been. You mentioned that your sisters were taking 8mg strips, and that you were taking 1/8th of a mg. Do you realize that you would have had to be cutting those strips into 8 pieces and then each tiny 1/8th piece into 8 more pieces and only taking that tiniest of piece to have been taking 1/8 mg? I think it's more likely that you were cutting each strip into 8 pieces and taking one of those pieces, therefore taking 1mg at a time right from the start. I know how small those pieces would have to be, and I just don't think it's possible that you were taking 1/8mg if you were using 8mg strips. So, it's more likely that you are actually taking a much larger dose now than 1mg.

So, lets try this again just to be sure. The strips you are taking are 8mg each. At your highest dose were you taking a whole strip or only pieces of the strip?

Also, you said your sisters had left you 2 pills. How did they leave you pills if they were prescribed the strips? Those pills are even harder to cut accurately than the strips...how much of the pills have you been taking?

I'm sorry if I sound accusatory, I am just confused as to how it would be possible for you to cut the 8mg strips into doses of 1/8mg.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:49 am 
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Brown Eyed Girl - I understand now, sorry. I am so clueless to this and that is why I'm here. I think I will have a way to access a few more to slowly taper down like you suggested with less chance of a painful withdrawal.

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:
With all due respect to your mom, it isn't her that is going to be going through the withdrawals, it's you that is Erin. I'm sure she is devastated like you say that you are in this situation, but I'm also quite sure she doesn't want to see you suffer needlessly either. Right?


Exactly and she understands, it's not really her that's feeling so strongly about it, it's mostly me because I'm so consumed with guilt for doing this and I don't have a job which means no money, so she and her husband will have to help and it eats me up inside because I just turned 23 and I've only accomplished a GED so I have so much to do and make up for the mistakes I'm making :(
qhorsegal2 wrote:
Hey SP,

I'm a bit confused on what you are saying your dose has been. You mentioned that your sisters were taking 8mg strips, and that you were taking 1/8th of a mg. Do you realize that you would have had to be cutting those strips into 8 pieces and then each tiny 1/8th piece into 8 more pieces and only taking that tiniest of piece to have been taking 1/8 mg?

You know what? I had a feeling that I explained this wrong because I am ignorant to this stuff I am so sorry :lol:

qhorsegal2 wrote:
So, lets try this again just to be sure. The strips you are taking are 8mg each. At your highest dose were you taking a whole strip or only pieces of the strip?

Only pieces. I am going to give you guys kind of a picture that will explain much better than me because I seem to just suck at it.

Image

So here we go, let's say this is an 8mg strip of suboxone. When I first began to take it I took one of the tiniest pieces on the far right (the 1/8mg) and gradually increased to the 1mg piece and that's as big a piece as I've ever taken (to my knowledge, I want to be careful with what I say because when I was taking these pieces I wasn't paying real close attention to the exact size) most of the time when I take it, it's just one piece but there have been several occasions where I'll take a piece (about the size of the one labeled 1/4 mg) and if I hadn't felt anything yet or not "high" enough I would take another piece of the same size. I hope I'm not confusing you all, I just want the facts out there in case I mention something and you all go, "Why didn't you mention this before?!" :lol:

qhorsegal2 wrote:
Also, you said your sisters had left you 2 pills. How did they leave you pills if they were prescribed the strips? Those pills are even harder to cut accurately than the strips...how much of the pills have you been taking?

I apologize, I do mean that they left me with strips, I called them pills without thinking. And you don't need to be sorry, it's totally me. If you guys get confused about anything I've said or want to know more don't hesitate I am an open book, I really just want to get through this with some support :)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:26 am 
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Erin,

You don't ever have to apologize to me here. I understnd how it is, I've been there where you are now and it can be so confusing, and frightening at the same time. No one is accusing you of anything, we just want to make certain we have all the facts, and we have as much info as possible to offer you the very best advice and suggestions. If you get a few things mixed up don't stress over it so much, just corrrect it as it comes up and we will continue to help you get off the subs as painlessly as possible.

Your right, your so young, and have so much life yet to live. I believe your doing the right thing and trying to get off the subs quickly. I really believe if you can taper down to a very low dose and then jump you will have very few symptoms. And keep your attitude as positive as possible, and let any negative thoughts disappear if you can. It's not easy, but if you approach this the right way and begin tapering slowly you will be off quicker than you may realize. If you can get a few more as you said and begin tapering right away it won;t be long and you will be off the subs.

Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:59 am 
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Okay,

Now that I'm sure about the dose I totally agree with Karen. It shouldn't be very hard to taper from 1mg. Now, I personally would recommend you find a way to get access to at least a couple more strips to do your taper properly. You can jump from 1mg, but it won't be fun. Especially for someone who has never went through WD before.

Just tell your mom that you are serious about coming off. But you need the time to do a proper taper. It's really not going to make much difference in the long run if you continue to take them a couple more months. And the whole time you will be working toward the goal of getting off.

I hope she will understand that you have to do this YOUR way or else it's not going to work properly for you. I know how hard that will be for a mother, but this is not about her, it's about you.

Good luck!

Q

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:18 am 
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Hi Erin,

Your question of how bad your wd is going to be is a hard one to answer because, from what I understand, you've never been through opiate wd before. Trying to explain opiate wd and predict its severity to someone who has never experienced wd before is very difficult.

Most of your time on suboxone, you were on a very low dose (.125mg up to 1mg) and truthfully, you could probably jump from 1mg and not have wd that bad. BUT, that comment is coming from a person who has experienced full on pain pill wd many times and I know how bad opiate wd can be. Because you have no frame of reference for opiate wd, you may find suboxone wd to suck pretty bad?

Wd off any opiate SUCKS, but suboxone wd (especially at the lower doses you were on) is usually much more mild than full on opiate wd.

Anyway, like the others have been saying, your best chance to minimize your wd symptoms is to taper, taper, taper.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:38 pm 
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Hey everyone, just wanted to let you know that I was able to get access to 3 suboxone pills (and I actually do mean the pills this time, not sure why my sisters got the pills this time but I will take what I can get quite honestly).

Okay so here are some updates. I ran out of sub eventually (even tapering down to the tiniest crumb) and am now 4 days into no sub at all. So far it's been rough, but not physically. It's mentally breaking me down for sure. I went without sleep on the third night (even taking xanax and sleeping pills) and ended up just bawling to my mom about how depressed I was and anxious, and how the drug has me and I'm doomed and she was helpful but also just unsure of what to do with me. The depression and anxiety is what's hurting the most.

As for physical withdrawal, I'm yawning, sweating pretty bad, and last night when I was asleep my body jolted hard and I bit my lip (this happened twice and it hurt pretty bad) and also was having strange vision.

So here's the problem, my mom knows about all of this and we got the pills today but she is very reluctant to give me any because she thinks that because I'm not seizuring, shaking, throwing up that it's not that bad. But I have to admit, I want to take a bit of it to just reduce my discomfort but my mom said she doesn't want me to do it because then I'll be right back where I started. She's right but I know come tonight I am going to break down and ask her because at night I'm pretty depressed, almost anything sets me off into crying and panicking. She keeps telling me that she's giving me poison by letting me take it, and she's a bad mother, an enabler etc. so I just wanted to ask you guys is there maybe something you could say on here that I could read to her that maybe helps or am I really just being weak and continue not taking any? I know you all will tell me that you can't answer it but maybe instead I will ask you each to tell me what you all would do if you were me?

By the way I apologize for not mentioning that I've been 4 days off sub way before, I came on here initially for general information but now I feel like I'll be more upfront since talking about this means giving out as much info as I can, and also thought I would get the pills sooner.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:08 pm 
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Hey Scribbled,

I am going to be honest with you here and tell you that your mom is probably right. I know that's not what you want to hear. But no matter how low you taper you are going to have to go through some kind of WD in the end. What you have described sounds like a pretty normal mild WD to me. If you have been 4 days without anything now, you are well into the worst of it and should start to feel better soon.

If you absolutely can't take it any more and need to have something I would suggest you go to the stopping suboxone section and look at the liquid taper method. There is no way your going to be able to get an accurate small dose with the pills without doing it that way. They are much harder to break into small doses than the strips, and you will probably wind up taking more than you have been because of that.

Honestly Scribbled, at some point you have to pay the piper so to speak if you mess with opiates. It's not fun, and that's why people have such a hard time quitting these things. But it's not possible to get off without enduring some WD. I think you are at a bit of a disadvantage because you have never experienced real WD until now. But what you are feeling is completely normal, and the best I can tell it's about as mild as it gets. My advice would be to bite the bullet and deal with it. I wouldn't expect your acute WD's to last more than another week.

Here's a laundry list of some meds that will help you.

Clonodine is #1 on the list to help with sleep, anxiety, and hot/cold flashes. It's a prescription blood pressure medicine that is prescribed off label for opiate WD.

Immodium - This helps tremendously with the stomach cramping and frequent bathroom visits. Other anti-diarhea meds don't work as well because Immodium actually binds to the opiate receptors in your intestine and stomach lining.

What you are describing with the body jerks at night is very common. WD causes Restless Legs, and it can be one of the worst symptoms for some people to deal with. You can try hylands restless legs OTC, or ask your doctor for Ropinirole. These won't knock it completely out, but it can make it more manageable.

Also, you can try some sleep meds. OTC Unisom is a good choice. Or you can see if your doc will prescribe you a short term sleep aid like Ambien. This shouldn't be used for long periods of time because they have the potential to be addicting. But they help with the sleeplessness you will endure because of WD.

Hot baths are the best thing for the body aches. And you should find something to distract and comfort yourself like music, movies, or reading.

I understand what you are saying about the mental component. It's the hardest to move past for alot of people. You really need to try to attend some kind of recovery meetings like AA/NA, SMART recovery, or a church based program. The bottom line is, if you don't get yourself in a positive mind set about getting sober you will fail. This needs to be something you are doing for yourself. Your mom forcing you into getting off the subs is only a short term fix. You are going to have to do the work to be sure you don't go back to using. I hope you understand that you are actually getting off pretty easy here. If you go back and use again it won't be as easy to quit. Dr. J says that each time you relapse the WD is harder. Not to mention the mental chains you are putting yourself in. The longer you use, you will find it harder to cope with everyday situations and stresses without using to make yourself feel better. Not even better, at some point you won't get high any more and you will need the drugs just to feel normal.

I know this is hard for you scribbled. But I hope you really sit down and think about what I'm saying to you. You have a chance to get out of this here, before your addiction gets out of control, you should take it. Because if you don't you will wind up much worse off down the road.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:22 pm 
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I'm sorry about the double post, but I wanted to add something.

When you described how you were feeling last night and what you told your mom I recognized where you are immediately.

Scribbled, you are scared. This is a scary thing. Not knowing what will happen next and how long this feeling will last is enough to scare the hell out of anyone! But I promise you it will go away. Right now the addict inside you is freaking out and throwing temper tantrums trying to get you to feed it. That situation will reduce you to irrational thinking, and it's really not easy to snap yourself out of it. Your right, the drug does have you right now. You aren't yourself, everything you do is being directed by the addict. If you don't recognize how deceitful and sneaky and selfish this being inside you is, you will be fooled into thinking you will never get better.

This will end for you scribbled. But it does take a little time. I really think after reading your history that it won't take very long for you. I know a couple weeks sounds like an eternity right now to you, but it's really not. What is two weeks of feeling bad compared to a lifetime of freedom?

Here is a tip, and it's something that really helped me when I was where you are now. Stop dwelling on how you are going to feel next month, or next week, or even tomorrow. When you do that it is easy to get overwhelmed and scared. Deal with how you are feeling right now, in this moment. Can you go another 5 minutes without using? Can you just make it for today? You have to break the cycle of thinking about not ever being able to use again. That can make us sad and depressed and scared. Just focus on getting through today, and not worry about what you will do tomorrow. If you ever get this concept you will feel so much better. Thinking about a lifetime of never using again is too much for you right now. Just focus on getting through this day. Pretty soon you will have racked up a bunch of days and you will start feeling better.

Hang in there Scribbled. If you need to talk more or have any other questions post away. We will be here to support you no matter what you do! I want to see you succeed with this girl, but if you slip don't be afraid to come here and be honest about it. We won't judge you! I have screwed up so many times I can't count them all. But I always get back on my horse and try it again. It will eventually click, and when you get sick of the ride you will begin to hate this disease and want to kill it! That's a good place to be.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:46 pm 
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Sorry for the late reply but I am back with some updates.

qhorsegal2 - Thanks for all of your kind words and not one word you said was incorrect. I am very scared and I'm realizing that my mom is right too, I do have a way out easy and it would be insanity if I didn't take it like you said.

Sadly, I did end up using a small amount (and you're way right about it being much harder to break by the way) and my mom knows about it because she did help me break off the piece and I want to be honest with her because she's only trying to help me. I've never heard of the liquid taper method but if it means going to a sub doctor then I can't consider it because it's too expensive and I would really just like to get off the drug without putting my mom through more financial pain, but I do appreciate the suggestion, if I'm wrong about what it is feel free to set me straight.

I feel bad that I used last night though and I didn't think I would because it fed my addiction and I thought I would get dumbed down into thinking I can just keep screwing around. I mean don't get me wrong I'm happy that my mind didn't go there but I was just surprised.

I do have a question though, is there any suggestion of a taper method that would have you take sub every other day or every so often? My mom wanted to know this as well because she said if I can skip days it might work but I absolutely have no clue if that would be something helpful or damaging to the addiction.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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