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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:41 pm 
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Hey Erin,

Let me tell you exactly what I think you should be doing ok. You need to get off the sub as fast as possible in a way that offers you the least amount of withdrawals. To do this what I would be doing if it were me is to begin tapering slowly and get off, and STAY OFF that sub.

You are in prime position to end this quickly before it spirals completely out of control and your abuse of the sub grows larger, and even leads to other substances. No judgement Erin, just speaking the truth that I know all too well. Get your life in order before you get to where I and lots of others have been ok sweetie.

Have your mom read this if you want, but what I would go is begin with a .50mg (that's HALF of 1mg) piece and take that everyday for 3 days only. Then reduce that to .25mg (a QUARTER of 1mg) and stay there for 3 days. Then reduce once more to .125mg which is HALF of a .25mg piece and stay on that dose for 3 days.

Then begin a day skipping process at that point. After the 3 days on the .125mg dose you skip the very next day. Then you take another .125mg piece. Then you skip 2 days. You dose once again the .125mg and then you skip another 3 days. Take a dose .125mg one final time! That will be your very last dose of subs!!!

What that day skipping process does, in my opinion, is gets you acclimated or use to going without the sub one day at a time. You go without your dose first one day, then two, then 3 days, and finally done. It helps the mental game get you use to not dosing for good. I have several friends that have done it this way and they all say it really helps!

After those skipping days at .125mg you are DONE!! No more ok! You are going to most likely have a few days of symptoms, but there are lots of natural supplements, along with things like exercise, music, and hot baths.showers to help you deal with those. There are many ways to combat any symptoms you do have, but just always remember that you getting off STRONG drugs in the subs so a few symptoms should be expected.

Others may have different ideas or suggestions, and that's fine, there should be a few different ways to go with this. What you need to do is take all suggestions into account and choose the way that you think will make the best choice. Whether it's my idea or someone elses it really doesn't matter, it's what works in the end for you Erin.

But like I said, if it were ME I would do as I suggested and be done with it for good! It will take a little over 2 weeks! About 18 days I think is right? That's pretty quick and should give you the best chance to avoid any rough symptoms. My thoughts and suggestions here Erin. Up to you girl, but I sure hope you get off soon and be finished messing around with this drug. Good luck and please keep updating us!

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Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:59 pm 
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Hey Erin,

Yes, you can definitely skip days when tapering. I think it's a good way to get yourself acclimated to having "clean days" before you completely cut yourself off. Above all, if you are going to taper, you need to do what is comfortable for you. This could give you just enough leeway to get yourself in a more positive frame of mind.

The liquid taper method does not require you to go to the doctor. You would simply use the pills you already have. You crush them and add them to water and will then use a medicine dropper to get a much more accurate dose than what you can ever do with the pills alone, or even the films. Here's a link to a very good thread that will fully explain it to you. I would get your mom to read the replies you have had here and this thread in it's entirety. It will give you a much better idea of what to expect while you are tapering.

liquified-suboxone-taper-method-far-good-t296.html

I think Karen gave you a good idea on how you could taper above. But remember, there is no right or wrong way to do this. You and your mother need to discuss what will be the best way for you to deal with your specific needs. And, you need to remember that there may be times you will have to adjust your plan by a day or two to allow yourself a little more time on a dose to get stable. You will know when it is time to drop to the next lower dose. Don't expect it to be completely comfortable, you will have some WD symptoms. But they won't be bad, and with your low tolerance and short time on the subs you should have NO PROBLEM getting completely off in a very short amount of time.

Remember though Erin, this won't work if you don't want it! You have to be sure that you are doing this for yourself. Attend some meetings, get some addiction workbooks...something to get past the fear of the whole living without any drugs. The fear will kill you. You have to be ready to fight for yourself!

I'm sorry to keep bringing that up. But I am always worried when I see someone trying to kick an addiction because they are being forced to by a loved one. I've been there, and even though I wanted so bad to do it to make them happy, it didn't work for me until I realized I wanted to get sober for myself. With or without the support of my family, I was going to do it for ME. Make sense?

By the way, I wanted to mention that I am very proud of you. You are really being open and honest about your situation and you are doing everything you can to get the information you need. I believe you are going to be fine. And it is so great that you are getting control of this situation before it gets any further. It shows that you are a very smart young lady. Your mother should be very proud of you for the fact that you are willing to try so hard to get yourself better. And, if she is reading this, I hope she realizes that she isn't to blame for her daughters addictions. I can't imagine the pain and fear that she feels watching her children go through this...but it sounds like she is doing everything she can to help you make it! A mothers job is never easy, but a mother who has a child dealing with addiction deserves a special place in heaven as far as I'm concerned!

Good luck Erin! Let us know if you have any other questions.

Q :D

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:07 pm 
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Great post Q and well said! :D

Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:46 pm 
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Wow, you girls are the best thank you!

I was expecting you both to be against the idea of tapering every other day for some reason, I wasn't sure if it would just screw with my body and prolong the addiction but I'm glad that I can do it! I'm going to start off with every other day and increase the "clean days" as I go, and Brown Eyed Girl, I like your schedule and I think that's what I will do.


And thanks for the info about the liquid tapering! That sounds like it might be an idea to consider. I thought it was a liquified version of sub :lol:

qhorsegal2 wrote:
Remember though Erin, this won't work if you don't want it! You have to be sure that you are doing this for yourself. Attend some meetings, get some addiction workbooks...something to get past the fear of the whole living without any drugs. The fear will kill you. You have to be ready to fight for yourself!

I'm sorry to keep bringing that up. But I am always worried when I see someone trying to kick an addiction because they are being forced to by a loved one. I've been there, and even though I wanted so bad to do it to make them happy, it didn't work for me until I realized I wanted to get sober for myself. With or without the support of my family, I was going to do it for ME. Make sense?


No I completely understand why you are saying this and I do have something to add to it. When I told you about how I was bawling to my mom about how miserable I was and afraid, I was feeling scared also because mentally I felt like I didn't want to quit and that was a bad feeling because like you said, it will never have any chance of working unless I absolutely want it and I do but I'm also not going to deny that there is part of me that is unsure about letting the drug go and I wonder if it's the drug that is poisoning me into thinking like this? I know what I'm saying sounds incredibly alarming but it was one of the big reasons why I was so upset. But the thing is, once the pills that we got access to are gone, they are gone. And there isn't any other way to do it over again comfortably and I am reminding myself of this all the time. I know the horrors of drug addiction and how bad it can get from watching my sister's lose everything. Does my mom want me to quit? Definitely, but I want it too, but am really afraid at the same time because of my thinking lately. I feel really guilty about admitting this :(


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:19 am 
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Erin,

You aren't telling me anything I haven't dealt with myself! That's exactly what I saw when you wrote that the other day. I have been there, as have most of us addicts on this forum. A very good friend of mine who is also an addict living in recovery told me something when I was at that point. He said it's a grieving process. You will go through the stages of being scared to give it up, being angry because you have to, and fear what your life will be without the one thing that makes you feel good. But, at some point you will figure it all out. When you learn to recognize that beast inside you starting to rear it's ugly head, you need to have plans put in place for how to deal with it.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:01 am 
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qhorsegal2 wrote:
Erin,

You aren't telling me anything I haven't dealt with myself! That's exactly what I saw when you wrote that the other day. I have been there, as have most of us addicts on this forum. A very good friend of mine who is also an addict living in recovery told me something when I was at that point. He said it's a grieving process. You will go through the stages of being scared to give it up, being angry because you have to, and fear what your life will be without the one thing that makes you feel good. But, at some point you will figure it all out. When you learn to recognize that beast inside you starting to rear it's ugly head, you need to have plans put in place for how to deal with it.

Thank you, I so needed to hear this, I have been so guilt ridden by this and I think it's exactly what you are describing. A grieving process. I definitely understand more why my sisters don't want to even consider getting off of sub themselves. I'm having a rough time myself for using in a short time I couldn't imagine what they would experience.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:39 am 
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Good Morning Erin,

QHorse knows the drill real well doesn't she? I'm glad you understand it. I just wanted to add what I honestly believe is THE most important part to this IF you want to get your life under control as far as the subs are concerned....

You have to "WANT IT" more than anything you have ever wanted in your life before Erin. It has to be your TOP PRIORITY at this point. If not you will be just spinning your wheels and getting by, but not where you really want to go, or be.

You have to REALLY want to quit. You can say you do, you can tell us you do, and you can tell your mom you do, but until you tell YOURSELF you do, and believe it and make it the focal point in your life right now, the drugs will always win, and beat you at the fight.

Think of it as a fight, you vs the subs. You know they are going to be fighting you all the way, they are now right? You have to fight back and give it everything you have in you, and again, WANT IT more than anything else!

You CAN do it Erin, I know you can!

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Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:44 am 
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Erin,

I just have to say how much I love Q's last post. It speaks directly to some of the fears you're having and when my addiction counselor told me about the grieving process when I quit Suboxone, it all of a sudden clicked for me. The fears and uncertainty I was having WERE part of the grieving process.

I'm not sure how much of this applies to you, but my drugs had become my life, me best friends, my everything. As much as I wanted to quit them and be done with the bastards, there was a large part of me that was scared shitless of the prospect of living without them. And as Q said earlier, this is why recovery is important. Recovery work helps us come to terms with a life without drugs.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:17 pm 
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You nor your mother are addiction medicine specialists or have waivers to treat addicts using buprenorphine (Suboxone/Subutex/Zubsolv). While most of us here are extremely well-versed in all things buprenorphine and will offer support in any way we can. I think it's really implortant that you take the step and actually at the very least consult with a Suboxone prescribing Dr once and get a taper schedule in place with legitimately obtained medication. You clearly have a family history of opioid addiction and members on maintenance as well as what probably amounts to some enabling behaviors but WE on this ONLINE forum don't and can't have all the facts and can not see you physically. I urge you to make an appointment with a Suboxone Dr. You have a high probability of addiction due to the scenario you've described related to family members, and it sounds like you are in the early stages of it, but you need to get it under wraps NOW before it gets to be end-stage time. First step, see a Suboxone Dr and have a honest discussion about whether or not a taper is feasible in your case or if a period of maintenance might put you in a good position to get other areas of life in order (and focus on another form of recovery you can utilize once Suboxone is gone) and then taper later. Once the addiction 'switch is flipped,' it never goes away; addiction can be put into remission either by daily use of an approved, stable, long-acting opioid medication or life-long involvement in a recovery program that changes aspects of your life and personality. Even if you were to buy yourself one year to decide where you ultimately want to go recovery-wise, that one year is nothing and it could save your life! Stay positive!

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:33 pm 
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Hey TwinCities, I was wondering if you saw that the OP's drug of choice is Suboxone? The most she's taken on a daily basis is 1mg.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:46 pm 
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Hey TwinCities,

I have read several of your posts and usually agree with most of what you have to say to others. I completely respect your knowledge, education, and understanding of drug abuse and the addiction process, but in this case with Erin, I disagree with your suggestion for her to see a Suboxone doctor to get herself on the right track.

Yes abuse seems to run in her family, and yes Erin has taken several pieces of sub belonging to her sisters which is abuse, and she realizes this fact. But suggesting she see a sub doctor may have even more harmful affects and consequences on her in my opinion.

Erin admits to never having any kind of opiate addiction in the past. And I hope you will agree that many "sub doctors" really have very little understanding of how this drug should be prebscribed, and how it actually works best. Certainly not all, but many care more about the money to be made, and less about their patient. Erin may head into a sub doctors office looking for a way to taper off completely as we have suggested to her here, or discuss her options, and wind up being put on an extremely high dose of sub by one of these non-caring, un-informed doctors, and end up with a much larger problem than she has now. I would sure hate to see that happen.

And Erin please forgive me for speaking as if you weren't here, but I'm just trying to help the best way I know how and hope you realize that, and understand what I'm trying to say?

I'm not trying to begin any kind of argument. But I could just see Erin establish an appointment with a sub doctor, going in to find out the best way off this powerful drug, and coming back and telling everyone here that her new sub doctor felt it necessary she get on sub maintenance, at a very high dose, for a rather lengthy period of time, and totally and completely having this young lady in a much worse jam than she is right now. That would be horrible in my opinion if that indeed did happen, which I hope you would admit is entirely possible?

I think the best advice is for Erin to get off the sub quickly, using the best taper possible, and never touch it again if it's not needed, as it is not needed now. I hope you take my post in the spirit in which it is intended TwinCities. I mean no disrespect to you, and I will continue to read your very valuable input you provide here. I just happen to completely disagree with your advice to Erin and her seeing a sub doctor.

I believe that would be a huge mistake and is just my own personal opinion..

Thank you,
Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:54 pm 
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Brown Eyed Girl wrote:
Hey TwinCities,
I have read several of your posts and usually agree with most of what you have to say to others. I completely respect your knowledge, education, and understanding of drug abuse and the addiction process, but in this case with Erin, I disagree with your suggestion for her to see a Suboxone doctor to get herself on the right track.


I think it's a better option to obtain pills legally for a taper than to obtain them illegally from people that might encourage a Suboxone abuser 'up the ante' and try, say, an Opana or say something like “Oh, hey, you’re trying to stop, right? Use these sustained release morphine and oxycodone pills, they work better for getting off. I’ve used that method all of the 15 times I’ve quit and it works like a charm.” Who knows…most drug dealers and diverters aren’t Dr’s (I said most..) OP mentioned her sister as a source is now in another state, not all drug diverters have the best interest of their clients at heart like a relative might, obviously.

A detox facility that utilizes Suboxone in a short taper would be another non-illegal option, there is county funding available in a few states and other options regarding funding in others, you have to be your own advocate or literally be or have an advocate to obtain them sometimes, but they exist.
I don't see short tapers or even long tapers work a lot of the time, but it's certainly an option. Most people can obtain a few day detox stay if they put some leg work into it; the environment is controlled and dosages would be controlled, comfort meds would be provided and in case of emergency she’d ideally be in a hospital or medical facility already.

If this were simply a case study with some general information, on information given in posts alone, the subject would be 304.00 Opioid Dependent with physiological dependence and meets at least 4 out of 7 criteria (3 are needed for a diagnosis of opioid dependence) per DSM criteria. People who meet criteria for opioid dependence, albeit early-stage dependence, they should obtain services as they could benefit from the appropriate modality and level of care. I don’t see this as a small bump in the road for the OP or a “just taper, jump and then keep a positive attitude in the future” scenario. This is opioid dependence in the early stage and some intervention should be made.

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:
Yes abuse seems to run in her family, and yes Erin has taken several pieces of sub belonging to her sisters which is abuse, and she realizes this fact. But suggesting she see a sub doctor may have even more harmful affects and consequences on her in my opinion.


The OP self-reports using Suboxone without a prescription for the purpose of intoxication for at least eight months and daily for at least five of those months per her report. There ARE less than ideal physicians prescribing Suboxone but that is not all of them. The OP’s sister(s) are on Suboxone, perhaps they know of a prescriber with a good rep? I don’t see Suboxone maintenance as harmful in any way for someone who is opioid dependent, young or old. What I DO see as harmful is that the OP continue to use less than ceiling doses of Suboxone to intoxication daily (which effect her as any agonist would) until that illegal supply runs dry and then someone says ‘here, try (insert opioid here) it’ll make you well and is way better than Suboxone, dude!” Or the inevitable progression, should she continue to use will likely lead to more potent opioid use in and of itself once buprenorphine is no longer producing euphoria as she gets closer to that ceiling. I don’t know the age of the OP, but how many times should someone have to try options that have been determined to be less successful than ORT? Maybe if she’s under 18, one..in my view. 

There are many options and I believe that the OP NEEDS TO PICK ONE and get started with recovery. My life would be drastically different had at 5 months of daily use, I sought out help and followed through. Wow, guys and girls, think of how different out lives could be. I’d probably be the Drug Czar or something.

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:
Erin admits to never having any kind of opiate addiction in the past. And I hope you will agree that many "sub doctors" really have very little understanding of how this drug should be prebscribed, and how it actually works best. Certainly not all, but many care more about the money to be made, and less about their patient. Erin may head into a sub doctors office looking for a way to taper off completely as we have suggested to her here, or discuss her options, and wind up being put on an extremely high dose of sub by one of these non-caring, un-informed doctors, and end up with a much larger problem than she has now. I would sure hate to see that happen.


Erin has had marked periods of opioid abuse (3 months) progressing into opioid dependence (at least 5 months) in the last year. I also never had an opioid addiction, until I did..Neither did you or anyone else, I would imagine. That probably sounds sarcastic, but it’s meant jokey, but it’s also reality, my friend! Once the beast is fed, the beast wants to keep eating. You can put the beast to sleep via addiction remission through medication, intensive therapy, Individual treatment or group processing with a Professional Counselor, religious devotion/fellowship, 12-step group attendance, SMART Recovery, Celebrate Recovery, etc; but, in other words, ANY of the other forms of treatment mentioned, but it has to be something active. I wish it were just a case of “ok, stop and move on with life,” but it doesn’t work that way. You’re catching it young and soon in the progression so you have a unique opportunity to take care of it early on.

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:
I'm not trying to begin any kind of argument. But I could just see Erin establish an appointment with a sub doctor, going in to find out the best way off this powerful drug, and coming back and telling everyone here that her new sub doctor felt it necessary she get on sub maintenance, at a very high dose, for a rather lengthy period of time, and totally and completely having this young lady in a much worse jam than she is right now. That would be horrible in my opinion if that indeed did happen, which I hope you would admit is entirely possible?


I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree. I still stick by my original post, but wanted to take some time to respond a little more deeply out of respect for you. I don’t feel that a Dr putting the OP on a higher dosage would be out of line as the intent is to be above the ceiling to be stable on buprenorphine. What I see as horrible would be to recommend a short taper using illicit Suboxone and having nothing is in place in terms of relapse prevention after the Suboxone is removed. I don’t think 4, 8 or 12mg would be out of line…Wherever she stabilizes, it’s individual. I wouldn’t imagine she would need more than between 4 and 8mg. She would adjust to the dosage rather quickly and the ups and downs associated with low-dose buprenorphine would be gone.

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:
I think the best advice is for Erin to get off the sub quickly, using the best taper possible, and never touch it again if it's not needed, as it is not needed now. I hope you take my post in the spirit in which it is intended TwinCities. I mean no disrespect to you, and I will continue to read your very valuable input you provide here. I just happen to completely disagree with your advice to Erin and her seeing a sub doctor.
I believe that would be a huge mistake and is just my own personal opinion..


It’s not needed right now BUT ONLY in the way it’s being used; the OP is abusing Suboxone which she is obtaining from illicit diversionary channels. I believe that a medically managed taper with emphasis on alternative recovery modalities concurrently would be appropriate to try. I also believe that maintenance is a viable option and could potentially save a lot of heartache, pain and misery.

I understand where you’re coming from, totally and I respect your opinion and experience very much. You had the benefit of being on Suboxone at a stable dose for some period of time, right? Long enough to establish some healthy habits and find some stability in your life as well as life-altering events? If anyone should ever get off Suboxone, you were probably at that point! The OP has no tools in place, has little formal knowledge about addiction, I’m not sure that she acknowledges that she is an addict and that addicts need to manage their addiction on a daily basis by some means and if she’s willing to do that beyond BMT.

Again, just my take on the situation! Thanks for the lively debate though, Karen; It made me think!

OP, I hope you really take to heart what everyone is saying and create a plan you feel will be doable for you in your life at this point. I wish you nothing but the best! Stay positive!

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:31 pm 
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Twin,

I just wanted to say that, I for one, am picking up everything that you're puttin' down. The only difference being that I see OP as actually having already leveled out at 1mg for the past 5 months. She more or less got herself on maintenance unknowingly. To take 1mg of sub, once daily, doesn't appear to be "abuse" to me. Scribbled Pretty may have started out seeking a buzz (or relief from depression) on micrograms, but when SC leveled out at 1mg and stayed at 1mg, once daily doses, despite no longer feeling anything from it, that sounds more like correct suboxone use vs. abuse. To me, it doesn't matter how SC got there, we all got there. And I agree, suggesting that prayer or positive thinking can keep one "clean" is dangerous. Especially for someone who is 23 and needs real tools to deal with a newly forming potential addiction.

Scribbled, wishing you the best with whatever you choose. Hope you don't mind a bit of a conversation in your thread but it's an interesting topic, and thought provoking, for many of us.

Let us know how you're doing!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:24 am 
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Hey Twin,

I am actually really glad you posted what you did. Although I don't agree that she needs maintenance right now, I think you brought up some really great points. I would say she needs to give it her best shot at quitting now, while her use is still small. If she relapses, then definitely, go see a doctor and get on maintenance. But, your post brought up exactly what I have been trying to get through to her. She needs to replace her drug use with some form of addiction therapy, or group meetings, to have a chance at making it stick. My biggest fear for SP is that she hasn't quite grasped how serious her situation is, you pointed out some things that are a very real possibility that she needs to be on guard against.

Could she go in and get seen by a professional for a medically supervised taper schedule? Sure, and it might be a good idea if she could find the right doctor and stick to her guns that she doesn't want to up her dose to begin treatment. I might have suggested that if I thought she would go that route...but from reading her posts I just don't think she or her mother is in the place that they would agree to that being the best option at this time. I'm trying to meet them where they are. And I really think she can be successfull doing it the way we have suggested.

All that being said, I agree with alot of what you said. She needs to educate herself a little bit more about her addiction and figure out a plan to keep herself well and focused on recovery for the rest of her life. It's something I hope she thinks about.

Thank's for the thought provoking post Twin.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:23 am 
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TwinCitiesHardcore wrote:
Brown Eyed Girl wrote:
Hey TwinCities,
I have read several of your posts and usually agree with most of what you have to say to others. I completely respect your knowledge, education, and understanding of drug abuse and the addiction process, but in this case with Erin, I disagree with your suggestion for her to see a Suboxone doctor to get herself on the right track.


I think it's a better option to obtain pills legally for a taper than to obtain them illegally from people that might encourage a Suboxone abuser 'up the ante' and try, say, an Opana or say something like “Oh, hey, you’re trying to stop, right? Use these sustained release morphine and oxycodone pills, they work better for getting off.



Twin,

I want to respond to your post in length, but just can't do it right now. I've had a major event happen in my life that prevents that from happening right now.

But I did want to say I in no way encourage Erin, or anyone else for that matter to ever seek any kind of drug illegally. Your post seemed to imply that was what I was suggesting and I'm quite surprised you said what you did.

We can certainly agree to disagree and I also stick by my original post in this matter that Erin should get off subs as fast as possible, and stay off. Wish I had more time to elaborate, but I just can't right now.

I wish you well Twin, and you continue to have my full respect.

Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:34 pm 
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tinydancer wrote:
Twin,
I just wanted to say that, I for one, am picking up everything that you're puttin' down. The only difference being that I see OP as actually having already leveled out at 1mg for the past 5 months. She!


Good point, Tinydancer! I kind of got the impression that she had been taking 'up to 1mg daily,' meaning that her dose was fluctuating somewhat (between Xmcg and 1mg daily kind of thing) which obviously isn't ideal with maintenance. But she is already essentially on a... I'll call it quasi-maintenance dose.. I do remember her mentioning taking it once nightly even, now that you've brought this up! Good call!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:03 pm 
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Brown Eyed Girl wrote:
Twin,

I want to respond to your post in length, but just can't do it right now. I've had a major event happen in my life that prevents that from happening right now.

But I did want to say I in no way encourage Erin, or anyone else for that matter to ever seek any kind of drug illegally. Your post seemed to imply that was what I was suggesting and I'm quite surprised you said what you did.

We can certainly agree to disagree and I also stick by my original post in this matter that Erin should get off subs as fast as possible, and stay off. Wish I had more time to elaborate, but I just can't right now.

I wish you well Twin, and you continue to have my full respect.

Karen xoxo


Karen-

I hope you're doing alright in terms of the major event, you didn't mention if it was positive or negative.

I'm sorry if I came across as being rude or accusatory in some way, I don't think you were specifically encouraging anyone to obtain drugs illegally but that's what the OP has been doing and your multiple references to "greedy, money hungry 'suboxone doctors' who don't care about their patients, who could put the OP on a dose higher than she needs, create a whole host of other problems and worsen the situation" among other things, likely wouldn't encourage her to be all too enthusiastic about seeking out professional help in obtaining medication from a Suboxone prescriber. Just an observation, not an attack and I don't feel out of line in that view.

I understand that this is real life and that she IS ALREADY obtaining diverted buprenorphine and their is some harm-reduction going on within what she is doing, but she should figure out quickly what she wants to do and do it, whether it is legally obtained maintenance for a period of time while she gets familiar with recovery and living with addiction, a taper and education about addiction and recovery modality options she can follow up with after the buprenorphine is removed.

I still feel like in a perfect world people should "Get off subs as fast as possible, and stay off subs." Medication is never ideal, but sometimes it is essential; sometimes for periods of time, sometimes for life and that determination is totally individual like snowflakes.

Unfortunately the world is not a perfect place and people die where they could have lived had they used buprenorphine properly and long-term and not felt need or pressure to get and stay off of it. But the fact of the matter remains, as I pointed out before, you're saying this to someone (OP) without the benefit of stable medical care for her addiction, no knowledge about other avenues or recovery once she "gets off subs as quickly as possible, and stays off," nothing in place, and probably not the big personal motivations you had to get off yourself.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:59 pm 
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Hey Scribbled Pretty,

How are you doing? Have you bailed on us?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:32 am 
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I've been keeping up with this post, and would love to see how you're doing if you're still around!


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