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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:18 am 
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Hi,
I hope this message finds you all well. I have a question that I feel only a Dr. can answer specifically but I will appreciate any input. I posted a question that didnt get much response (in less detail previously posted as: "Amount of suboxone in UDS.")
HISTORY: Ok.. It goes like this. I am a 35 year old mother of 2 boys under 8 and an amputee. I am completely whole heartedly committed to recovery, . I ingested 300 mg of diazepam (amount needed to knock this old cow out lol) in 3 or 4 days time as I did every month(longterm usage), taking the last on or around 10-10. I started a suboxone program on 10-14 disclosing that I had taken them and was reassured that if levels were declining all would be ok. I took a UDS 10-14 benzo pos., again 10-21 benzo pos., and again 11-4 benzo pos. I was given a thirty day suply yay! (the perfect time to f*** up if that what I was about, right? NOT ME!) I thought all was well because the Dr. showed no concern over the positive UDS. WHOA was I wrong!! I came in for counseling on 11-13 and was told I was being discharged, so I demanded a UDS right there and then. Hoping they would realize that this was the first week into a month of freedom and see I had refrained from opiates and everything else. Not to mention the concern I had as to why the long lasting benzos and the health of my body in general... real concern on my part. They gave it to me. I was again benzo pos. I was concerned at this point that my system was not functioning correctly due to reduced kidney function, diabetes, (7 yr. diabetic ulcer) non-active lifestyle, or some other unknown issue. I have a lot of medical problems including but not limited to an affective disorder (paranoia, anxiety, bipolar), hypertension, RLS, PCOS, large goiter, impaired kidney function, uncontrolled diabetes, diabetic neuropathy, and the above mentioned ulcer. So one could see why I would be concerned knowing that I had indeed not failed this program in ANY way. My labs were sent off and I was discharged the following day. I know this Dr. did not base the decision off of qualatative testing because Quest diagnostics does not have a turn around time of less than 24 hrs. I know this because I worked as a courier. He did not check the levels of my UDS he just wanted a new spot open for another patient. He had a GOD complex anyways, you know the kind where the patient is beneath the Dr..... subhuman, and on top of that I am a disgusting addict in his eyes. I could feel it when he talked down to me, like I was the village idiot. I am anything but! I still I felt the lowest of low. I followed his directions and was still punished by the person I had put my full trust in to care for my better health and my recovery. This experience was damaging on so many levels. Now I am paranoid and do not trust any Dr. I am guarded always expecting the bottom to fall out to be stabbed in the back, kicked while Im down (sorry doctors). As an addict I already feel like crap about myself and my situation. To have a Dr. look and speak to you as if you are a deceitful piece of s*** is a real let down, and frankly does a lot of damage to future Dr. patient relationships. I was basically herded through the program and tossed out like a liar or thief, and ultimately incorrectly labeled. It hurts and is devastating to my sense of security with the medical community as a whole.
Now that you have a little history, I really need an answer to the following question(s). I have researched a lot of information about pharmacology since the happening with the previous Dr. and now have a new Dr. that I semi trust is concerned with my well being. My understanding is that when doing toxicology testing for suboxone that there is a metabolite (norbuprenorphine) that builds up over time that the Dr. can reference to determine if a patient is loading to try to catch the individual who is diverting. I would like to make this clear. I have no interest in diversion and people that do disgust me. However, I have an interest in creating a stash in case something were to happen, like with the previous Dr. and to be honest I do not need the full prescribed dose of 8mg. I can get by with 2-3 mg daily. I would love to be able to trust my Dr. fully but I know me and that is not going to happen easily nor speedily especially considering my (only) last experience. I have taken them correctly these first 2 weeks, so he now has a baseline level lab for the dose he's prescribing. I now have a months prescription. How could I reserve some of my medication for "hypothetical hard times" and still "test" like I am taking my full dose for my next (qualatative) drug screen? I have considered the idea that I should resume my full dose a week before my apt. but would like to get it down to a science to be as suboxone thrifty as possible. I feel like a preper saving, hoarding, preparing for some hypothetical event that may never come. Like the prepers I would feel much safer if I knew that I was going to be ok regardless what happens tomorrow knowing that I have a back up plan. I could redirect that nervous energy I spend worrying about my position in the program and suboxone security to doing more to better my health and deal with some of the other issues that are burdening me. It always feels like Im in limbo. In my state it is really hard to find a Suboxone Dr. that takes my insurance and there are waiting lists up to 6-8 months. This would be my hypothetical event, waiting and having to resort to the streets and mistreating my body even more. I realize it makes a Dr.'s day when a patient says I think I could get by on a little less when it comes to opiates so I know Im doing a good thing in at least one aspect. I hate being deceitful but I need to do what I need to do to feel safe so that I can concentrate on the other things that I should be worried about like my kids, my diabetes, and my 7 yr wound. I hope I have included enough info on my situation my last attempted post was a little vague I realize now. ANY and ALL ADVICE/COMMENTS WELCOME. THANKS, :-)


"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self"
Hemingway


Last edited by ALMOSThadENOUGH1979 on Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:02 am 
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Hi Almost

First i have to tell you I don't have an answer. What i think is missing in your post is what your prescribed dose is vs what you take per day. How long have you been on suboxone in total?

The turn around for easy tests is really about 12 hours. The samples (blood or urine) or picked up at night & processed during the nite. By the next morning there is an email or fax at the doctors office.

I may be naive but i don't think you want to divert the subs. Most of us want to have a stash, especially those of us who have had the "other shoe drop" for no reason. I can relate to you in not trusting etc.

There may not be anyone here who can give you the answer. Have you sent a PM to Dr J? I am sure he could answer and I am sure he knows people like to have a stash for "just in case". That's the best answer i have for you.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:43 pm 
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Thank you Tiki,
I have edited my post to include the dose. Thanks for pointing that out to me. I absolutely have sent the Dr. J a message, yesterday in fact. I am just waiting for a reply. You are not naive in believing me about not diverting. Although everyone says "oh no I would never" and in fact a big majority do. I have a very strong stance on this subject. First off I hate people who use the excuse of getting better to fund getting worse. This makes it so much more difficult on those who truly want to get better. Secondly there are so many hoops to jump through to get it prescribed and it is so hard to get in to see a Dr. to get the stuff, there is no way I would part with even one. I put it on a pedestal with money and I sure wouldnt be letting anyone get their hands on that. Officially I was in a program for a month and then the incident happened with that jerk of a Dr., lastly I got in to see new Dr 2 wks ago. However I have been on it unofficially since May. I am determined not to go back to my former habits. My boys deserve better and I will no longer accept anything but! I WILL stay on suboxone one way or another. I would rather it be with a real Dr. not a street Dr. ... prices were killing me. I pray that he finds it in his heart to answer with a beneficial reply that is right on. I kind of feel bad asking that question to a Dr. Isnt answering that question against the oath he has taken as a Dr.? Oh well I hope he picks his helping human nature before his doctorly duties. From what I hear and have read he is knowledgeable about suboxone to a great degree. If I do not find a decent answer I will continue with my plan to resume my prescribed dose a week before my next apt. Thanks for the input!


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