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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:23 am 
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Goinstrong wrote:
TeeJay wrote:
hatmaker510 wrote:
For members who weren't here over the last year or two, Dr Junig has gone over this and has written about it in his blog. There is zero evidence that suboxone does any damage to one's teeth. Teeth issues take YEARS to develop. Like has been said previously, mostly it's due to drugs that cause dry mouth - that does more damage that most would think. That and the neglect that they suffer while we're in active addiction.


There is also no evidence that Suboxone doesn't cause tooth decay. In fact there have been no studies into it at all.

So really the jury is still out.


[font=Comic Sans MS]TJ, I don't understand why you are always going after hatmaker. Several people said the exact same thing in this entire thread, and you had to single her out? I don't understand why. It's no wonder she took a break for a while. She does an awful lot for this forum. And while you may have your personal differences, that doesn't change this fact. Why don't you lay off for a little. I've noticed it before but I didn't know if I was just reading into it. But now it's just obvious. You and Jonathan did it to me when I first joined too. I can't imagine that it helps your recovery. Ya, there are no studies on either side of this, you couldn't just say that without trying to make her feel like an asshole? Unreal. [/font]


If I disagree with a post, I'm pretty open about it. Any member can vouch for that. I just seem to disagree with a lot of what she posts on certain topics. Is that wrong?

After sharing the moderating with hatmaker for a while I can tell you she's no shrinking violet. If she felt compelled to leave for a bit I'm pretty sure there was more to it than me disagreeing with some of the things she says.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:35 am 
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TeeJay wrote:
Goinstrong wrote:
TeeJay wrote:
hatmaker510 wrote:
For members who weren't here over the last year or two, Dr Junig has gone over this and has written about it in his blog. There is zero evidence that suboxone does any damage to one's teeth. Teeth issues take YEARS to develop. Like has been said previously, mostly it's due to drugs that cause dry mouth - that does more damage that most would think. That and the neglect that they suffer while we're in active addiction.


There is also no evidence that Suboxone doesn't cause tooth decay. In fact there have been no studies into it at all.

So really the jury is still out.


[font=Comic Sans MS]TJ, I don't understand why you are always going after hatmaker. Several people said the exact same thing in this entire thread, and you had to single her out? I don't understand why. It's no wonder she took a break for a while. She does an awful lot for this forum. And while you may have your personal differences, that doesn't change this fact. Why don't you lay off for a little. I've noticed it before but I didn't know if I was just reading into it. But now it's just obvious. You and Jonathan did it to me when I first joined too. I can't imagine that it helps your recovery. Ya, there are no studies on either side of this, you couldn't just say that without trying to make her feel like an asshole? Unreal. [/font]


If I disagree with a post, I'm pretty open about it. Any member can vouch for that. I just seem to disagree with a lot of what she posts on certain topics. Is that wrong?

After sharing the moderating with hatmaker for a while I can tell you she's no shrinking violet. If she felt compelled to leave for a bit I'm pretty sure there was more to it than me disagreeing with some of the things she says.



Um, yeah, ok....it actually had nothing to do with you....why you would assume that she even considers you, is beyond me. And thanks for a pointless response...and for addressing my post. Why quote my response if you are going to ignore it in yours? I think you just like drama and arguing....even when you're wrong. And if you could kindly point out where hatmaker ever claimed to be a "shrinking violet"...that would be great. Because that doesn't seem AT ALL like the image she is portraying one here.

I'm done with this conversation....I have more important people to respond to...like Laddertipper. She is actually in need of some support right now, not just here for drama. In the words of nogroovin (LOL) "feel free to have the last word".....

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:56 pm 
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Wtf goinstrong?

Please re-read my post before you jump to crazy conclusions.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:20 am 
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I read once that chewing gum can help with tooth decay caused by drugs that dry the mouth. It was a pamphlet aimed at people on methadone, but also mentioned tricyclic antidepressants (trazadone etc) and SSRI's as possibly contributing to tooth issues because of cotton mouth. The idea is that chewing gum stimulates saliva to fight the dries, thus keeping your teeth in shape. Might be worth trying. Chewing gum has helped me heaps in quitting smoking too!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:50 am 
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FYI, Trazodone is not a tricyclic antidepressant. It's actually an atypical antidepressant. Just wanted to clarify.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:48 am 
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[font=Comic Sans MS]I remember reading somewhere by two or three of the moderators, that this forum likes to keep their information as accurate as possible. In keeping with that theme, I just thought that the following information would come in handy to anyone considering chewing gum to nip their cotton mouth in the bud. It certainly does stimulate saliva production...but it has a ton of negative side effects to consider as well. The dentist that I worked for suggested minimal gum chewing, if any at all. Here are a few of the side effects...a simple google search will yeild tons of information about the side effects...positive and negative. Here are a few I found...

If you chew gum on a regular basis, please consider the following:
1.Chewing gum causes unnecessary wear and tear of the cartilage that acts as a shock absorber in your jaw joints. Once damaged, this area can create pain and discomfort for a lifetime.
2.You use eight different facial muscles to chew. Unnecessary chewing can create chronic tightness in two of these muscles, located close to your temples. This can put pressure on the nerves that supply blood to this area of your head, contributing to chronic, intermittent headaches.
3.You have six salivary glands located throughout your mouth that are stimulated to produce and release saliva whenever you chew. Producing a steady stream of saliva for chewing gum is a waste of energy and resources that could otherwise be used for essential metabolic activities.
4.Most chewing gum is sweetened with aspartame. Short and long term use of aspartame has been closely linked with cancer, diabetes, neurological disorders, and birth defects.
5.If your gum isn’t sweetened by aspartame, it is probably sweetened by sugar. Sugar is most likely the single greatest dietary cause of chronic health problems like cancer, heart disease, diabetes, and emotional disorders. Not to mention tooth decay...the reason for this entire thread.

I could go on and on, but you get the point. I personally do not chew gum. For the reasons above, and many many more. There are other ways of stimulating saliva production, without the risk of side effects. Indians used to place a tiny pebble in their mouth while traveling in the desert. LOL, I like useless trivia like that! Again, a google search for "increasing saliva production" will yeild a few suggestions on how to do this. I think it was Diary of a quitter that mentioned Biotene mouth wash...that stuff is awesome IMO.

Anyway, just thought I'd point these things out....Have a great day![/font]

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:14 pm 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
FYI, Trazodone is not a tricyclic antidepressant. It's actually an atypical antidepressant. Just wanted to clarify.


That's true. Thanks for the correction Hatmaker.

It's good on a forum like this how members can disagree with each other to get closer to the truth. It would be a shame if such disagreements were discouraged, or punished with a warning by the moderators.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:42 pm 
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Goinstrong wrote:
[font=Comic Sans MS]I remember reading somewhere by two or three of the moderators, that this forum likes to keep their information as accurate as possible. In keeping with that theme, I just thought that the following information would come in handy to anyone considering chewing gum to nip their cotton mouth in the bud. It certainly does stimulate saliva production...but it has a ton of negative side effects to consider as well. The dentist that I worked for suggested minimal gum chewing, if any at all. Here are a few of the side effects...a simple google search will yeild tons of information about the side effects...positive and negative. Here are a few I found...[/font]


Thanks for that Goinstrong. I do like a robust discussion. IMO if people give enough different opinions and thoughts on a topic, the more that's on the table the closer we get to the truth.

On the topic of gum, here's a link from the American Dental Association about its benefits. Seems there a few opposing ideas on it. I won't bother posting the whole lot, but here's the link:

Chewing Gum - American Dental Association

Also, Dr. Ben Kim (the guy who spoke against gum) is a chiropractor and acupuncturist. Here is the link to his page:

http://drbenkim.com/articles-gum.html

I got a bit wary reading the post when it started talking about Aspartame. There's been a lot of anti-aspartame conspiracies around, esp on the internet, and it's mostly from holistic therapists and alternative medicine folk. Fact is the vast majority of studies has shown Aspartame and phenylalanine to be safe. If it wasn't, diet coke wouldn't be on the shelves.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:51 am 
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I know I can't say this is hardcore evidence but it's good enough for me. I was on suboxone for a few years, before starting suboxone I had never had to deal with any negative dental issues my whole life. About 7 months into starting suboxone I had my first cavatie ever and as the time went on I had six more total. Nothing had changed in my diet so I can elimate that and since stopping suboxone I haven't changed my diet. And from the day I stopped suboxone to current date I haven't had a cavatie. So I eliminated the one thing that I thought was doing it and what do you know my dental health is as good as it has been in a long time. What more evidence can you ask for?

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 Post subject: Once more
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:32 am 
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Citric acid causes tooth decay. Suboxone contains citric acid.

Sub sits in our mouths sometimes for over 20 minutes, some people leave it in for much longer. That citric acid bathes our teeth. Every day.

:/


....


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 Post subject: Re: Once more
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:00 am 
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glen bee wrote:
Citric acid causes tooth decay. Suboxone contains citric acid.

Sub sits in our mouths sometimes for over 20 minutes, some people leave it in for much longer. That citric acid bathes our teeth. Every day.

:/


....



Yikes! No wonder people snort it! LOL!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:26 am 
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[quote="TeeJay

On the topic of gum, here's a link from the American Dental Association about its benefits. Seems there a few opposing ideas on it. I won't bother posting the whole lot, but here's the link:

Chewing Gum - American Dental Association

Also, Dr. Ben Kim (the guy who spoke against gum) is a chiropractor and acupuncturist. Here is the link to his page:

http://drbenkim.com/articles-gum.html

I got a bit wary reading the post when it started talking about Aspartame. There's been a lot of anti-aspartame conspiracies around, esp on the internet, and it's mostly from holistic therapists and alternative medicine folk. Fact is the vast majority of studies has shown Aspartame and phenylalanine to be safe. If it wasn't, diet coke wouldn't be on the shelves.[/quote]


[font=Comic Sans MS]Those were both informative and great articles....thanks for those! It added to my confusion though. I think that it boils down to this....Chewing Gum in moderation (much like everything these days) has its benefits. It also has its risks. But like you already said, it's great to have a discussion in which both sides are presented accurately, so we can make an informed decision. I think we both covered all sides here. Now there is just one question left to answer....How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll tootsie pop? Have a great humpday![/font]

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 Post subject: Re: Once more
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:04 pm 
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Goinstrong wrote:
glen bee wrote:
Citric acid causes tooth decay. Suboxone contains citric acid.

Sub sits in our mouths sometimes for over 20 minutes, some people leave it in for much longer. That citric acid bathes our teeth. Every day.

:/


....



Yikes! No wonder people snort it! LOL!


Wow! I hope that's not true! I think the people who are trying to snort it are more interested in getting high than in their dental health. Trying to pretend they have their addiction under control by taking sub, but abusing it all the same. Dental health is probably not the priority! LOL

Amy

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:03 pm 
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I think I'd rather have citric acid in my mouth than in my nose! LOL

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:52 pm 
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I haven't read all three pages of this thread, so apologize if this has been mentioned already but I'll share what I was told by my doctor. Suboxone increases saliva and your saliva glands work overtime to break down the pill/ strip under your tongue. Saliva is acidic. It's meant to help breakdown your food for better digestion. Acidity eats away at tooth enamel.

Suboxone = increased saliva = increased acidity = enamel breakdown.


It's important to brush regularly :D


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:58 pm 
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I dunno about that. Saliva has the same acidity of our blood. I've heard saliva is actually good for the teeth, and a dry mouth is bad. Saliva mixed with citric acid on the other hand.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:44 pm 
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TeeJay wrote:
I dunno about that. Saliva has the same acidity of our blood. I've heard saliva is actually good for the teeth, and a dry mouth is bad. Saliva mixed with citric acid on the other hand.


Yes, that does make more sense and perhaps what he was trying to explain. My two bottom front teeth had significant build up/ decay despite brushing the same as I do on my other teeth. It was exactly where my saliva would pool while I was waiting for tabs to dissolve. It would certainly make sense that it was the combo of the acidity in the meds.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:42 am 
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The way I understand it is (and this might have already been posted here) that while Suboxone does increase the amount of saliva in your mouth while you actually have it under your tongue, opiates, overall, decrease the amount of saliva we make, which leads to dry mouth tooth decay. I use over the counter Biotene when I wake up at night and go to the bathroom because that is when my mouth is the driest!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:35 am 
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Hello, all. I have been on Suboxone almost a year. I have an issue with hair and teeth since I've been on the medication. I would like to thank you all for your input. It has been very helpful, to say the least. I'm having an issue with cavities on my gum line. I have cavities on almost half my teeth. It's like the teeth are decaying right above my gums. I do believe the medication is causing this, or that it's certainly not helping. It's strange because I only started noticing this around 5 months in. You can actually see the cavities. The cavities are almost like holes in the teeth. I can fit my finger nail in them. A piece of my back tooth actually broke off. It's like the tooth was rotting underneath and the surfice chipped off. I've made a dentist appointment and will keep you posted. Also, I was not aware of this dry mouth stuff. I am going to get the Biotene product. The most important thing is that I'm clean and sober. Thanks everyone.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:12 pm 
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I dont think there's really ANY evidence either way,,,,,, of suboxone causing or NOT causing tooth decay....

CADDY,,,,
what were you addicted to and for how long????

my teeth were definitely headed down hill, before suboxone. I guess i didnt NOTICE too much, until I was ON suboxone, then I actually cared.
when I was using, I did NOT give a shit, that most of my teeth in the back were broken.
my front teeth started to "go"
after starting sub, or were headed that way already,,,,,,
see what I mean? hard to say.
It does take years, for your teeth to get soft, or have damage, all around.
THE one thing I want to say, is that my dentist, did an xray, and MY teeth were actually rotting from the INSIDE out.
No matter HOW much I brushed, it wouldn't have mattered. it was INSIDE the tooth.
there was all this "grey" color that looked cloudy, all inside my roots and along my gums.
nasty, oh yea!
Anyways, I asked my dentist WHAT would cause this?
genetics, is about half he said, and probably your drug use would be the other half.
he says opiates effect EVERY PERSON differently,,,, but for some people, SOME types of opiates cause
the enamel to soften over time, becoming brittle, this process happens from inside the gums.
that's what he said.
Mine were so bad,
that Ive had ALL but 4 of my teeth pulled and I have dentures.......... 30 with dentures.
I suggest you get to the dentist!!!!
here's my thread about it
http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=56582

I wish you the BEST of luck

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