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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:50 pm 
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I read everyday about suboxone being sold or not taking in the Dr format. Just wondering how everyone feels about it. I understand there are reasons for this, but how troubled are you? A little, alot, don't care? I see this mostly at my clinic and read it here at times. What do I do I about it here in my town? Report it like a taddletail? Or no, that wouldn't be "cool".. Idk for sure,but it bothers me more and more.. so... thoughts?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:33 pm 
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I think it's something that's going to catch up to us sooner than later.

Like stricter regs and rules on suboxone. Like methadone.

All because tons of people want to sell it and doctors will give them 4 or more a day! Not to mention that much subutex.

When Dr's are red flagged and in trouble time after time.... They should be closed!

Instead. I get a bad wrap for being on suboxone due to the public ONLY reading about the people selling it or getting arrested for possessing/selling them.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:35 pm 
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My prediction is suboxone will be a schedule II in five years or less, which in turn you'll soon have to go to a clinic doöayily.

Suboxone is flooding the streets and will get to the point were it will be to hard to manage. Shit I find empty sub fins packs almost daily on my run. And I live in a upscale suburb !

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:41 am 
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It's already being cracked-down on by the DEA. My doctor is a stifler for the rules, regularly kicks patients out of his practice who break the rules repeatedly, and has changed from a compassionate doctor that took me in 4 years ago to someone who rarely talks anymore...

I am being forced to change docs because he's cracking down on everyone, and it's affecting patients that have done no wrong, like myself. I went to my appointment a week early, because my daughter had an ortho appointment for her broken ankle in the SAME building on the day I went, and I had called my doc and asked could I save myself another trip to Bham (1hour drive) and just come in for my appt then too....they said that was OK so I thought nothing of it.

When I went in, he asked how many sub i had left. My last visit, he wrote me 75 at 2.5 per day and 1X refill. When I went to get the first 75, they didn't have enough..so they gave me 50...saved the other 25..

On my refill, I got a whole month, which was 75. that left a PARTIAL refill of 25.

So when he asked how many I had at home, I told him enough for 5 days or so. He starts figuring, and says "oh, you're way too short."....then immediately drops me to 56 /month, and says I can't have refills, that I must come every month.
I tried explaining that I wasn't counting the refill I had at the pharmacy. At first he thought I was talking about the refill he was handing me that day. Then when I finally explained and got them to understand...he and his nurses said "they can't do that (pharmacy)....if they don't have the entire amount when you go in, they shouldn't fill them AT ALL. So you don't have 25 left, you only have what you said was at home."
I finally said "OK...we'll see"....

I got them filled, and faxed in the paper from the pharmacy showing where I had 25 filled. Then I called.
The receptionist - RN told me that she went in and explained to the doctor about my daughter's appt...and that I wasn't out of meds, and I had those at the pharmacy...and that he didn't say anything.
Basically, I'm being punished for doing nothing wrong, and I told her that he just got an open slot on his Data 2000 waiver...and that I would think after 4 years of having NO problems...he would consider not making me drive to him every month as punishment for something I didn't do...but he's a doctor..he went to school, and apparently, he's smarter than they average bear...so I've already made another appointment. Too bad longevity with a doctor doesn't count for SH*T. It's frustrating to have them treat you like you're an idiot...even when you provide proof showing otherwise...they still won't hear of anything other than what they said.

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 Post subject: Diversion
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:08 pm 
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Let me start by saying something - I have only been on Subs through a doctor for a few short weeks and I would NEVER EVER sell my films. I am not into selling drugs, period. Even when I took pills, I never bought extra for the discount and sold some to reduce my cost. Mainly bc I never had the guts and was always too afraid of the consequences of selling drugs. Odd, since I would carry my stash in my purse like they were perscribed to me.

But, I will be perfectly honest and admit that when I began on subs (about six or seven weeks ago) I did buy them on the streets (from the people I got my pills from). I have no idea where they got them, but they were offered to me because there was an apparent "drought" with the Roxys I was hooked on, and I knew I would be out of them soon and did not want to start the sweats/shaking/general misery that came with running out. Well, I bought four strips thinking they were just another pill-like drug (like a morphine patch or something). Well when I bought them I still had a few pills left, and because I always googled anything I took, I googled Suboxone (I had never heard of it before). I read and read and read...and discovered what they were actually for (NOT JUST ANOTHER HIGH). I had been trying to quit for a long, long time with no success. So, after reading about Suboxone, alll I could think of was WHY would someone be selling these things if they were meant to be used to get OFF pills?? But it was at that moment that I knew my prayers had been answered. I induced myself using a withdrawl point system sheet I found on here, and I have not looked back. From my first dose, I knew that I could (and would) be free from my addiction. I immediately searched for a sub Dr for myself and made an "intake" appointment. Seeing the Dr, however, would be another month. So, in searching and seaching for another option that I could start sooner, I found a methadone clinic in the next town. I was able to get in within a week and was put on the Suboxone. The problem was, I had to go there every single morning. Not only was it too close for comfort (my addiction was a complete secret) and I was afraid someone would see me pulling in there, but I had to lie about where I was going every morning at 7:30 am! But, I stuck it out for ten days going to this clinic for my daily Subs. Just this past Monday (4/22) I had my Dr appointment at a place that does out-patient and gives scripts that I can fill and take home. I am sooooo thankful that I can do this now.

I know I kinda went off-subject, but I wanted to explain why I am personally thankful that people are allowed to self-dispense this medication, because without that person selling their script, I would still be screwed and taking pills. BUT, I totally understand how wrong it is for people to do so. I hope that our ability to get a script and take it in the privacy of our own home is never compromised due to people selling their script. I think that one way Drs may be able to help with this is only giving "take home privledges" to those patients who are totally compliant with their respective program (no dirty drug screens, no "running out" weeks ahead of time, etc). Because I know from personal experience how daunting it is to have to go into a clinic every single morning to be monitored while you take your medication. It sucks. Horribly!!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:12 pm 
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As far as what you should do about it.... I say tattle. Especially if it is at the place YOU are getting your Suboxone. I look at it as a way of preserving your right/abiliity to take your Suboxone at home, in the privacy of your own home or where ever YOU choose. Don't let anyone ruin that for you!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:00 pm 
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Interesting thread, thanks to those that have posted. I have wondered if some of what I prescribe make it to the street. My thought, perhaps someone is using it to get off their DOC, so there is some harm reduction. Then later I think that is a rationalization so I can sleep. I worry a lot more about the oxy scripts than the suboxone/subutex scripts.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:58 pm 
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Well Doc, there it is in a nutshell.yes diversity helps many, some do find there way to a Dr and to a real recovery program. Congrats to you Amy so glad you are doing well. It is a wonderful feeling when your life starts to come back. Keep it up.. ok, so I guess there is no perfect way to have 100% accountablity.so how can a Dr or clinic slow down this problem? Is it really that big of a deal so many sub's are on the street? I just asking here. I see a few sides to this.. I have to say though, in my clinic of 500,I've talked with so many that sell. Some sell to just pay for the Dr fee.these same addicts thunb there nose's at the other requirements nof the clinic. I have 14 other y addicts in my monthly group. None of them go to meetings, lie about step work, and use other drugs. Many sell there extras. I not on here to blow my own horn,but after 2and a half years of working a program I'm having trouble sitting still an watching all of this. So I'm dumping it here. Where else can I go, Na? Haha. Tell my Dr and get people tossed out? I don't really want that, there sick addicts, but dont do shit to change.. Idk I wanted to see if anybody really cared n forum land.. live and let live? Why should I care? Who is it hurting? Just hope it won't bite us who still take suboxone... Idk. RAZ...


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 Post subject: Diversion
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:19 pm 
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Dont get me wrong I definitely don't approve of people selling their suboxone, and I would never simply because I don't want to lose my script but nobody in my town even knows what suboxone is so I think if it was being sold and people were buying it and we're familiar with what it was and how it worked maybe it would convince more people to seek help for their addiction.

On the other hand, if people are buying suboxone "on the street" then they would be less inclined to get off their butts and go get a legit script from the doctor. Keeping them in the addictive cycle of getting sick from withdrawal when they can't find any and them getting well again. It would also allow them to get the sub without having to go through counseling, NA, and drug testing. I don't know though getting suboxone legitimately is very expensive so if someone can get it illegally when they have no access to it otherwise...

I'm conflicted on this one. I do know I don't want even more restrictions on a medication that's very important for my health.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:10 am 
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Docm, I think (at least in my town) the little Sub that does get sold "on the streets" does result is some amount of harm reduction. I know of only two people (a couple) who take it with no intentions of using it to GET OFF their DOC. The other few people I know who buy it on the street take it bc they are trying to get clean, and hate being an addict. I personally think that maybe they just arent ready to jump into recovery with two feet forward like all of us here were. The easy way to tell is when people are made aware that if they do get a script of Sub for themselves that they will forever be on a list within the medical community of people who can not have narcotic pain pills prescribed to them ever again. I know when I bought Subs off the street, it was from this couple and that was one of the first things they said - "screw going to a Dr to get Suboxone - you will NEVER be able to get Roxys from a Dr again!" - like that was a bad thing. For me, I didn't give a rats ass. I never WANTED to take pills again (and I haven't)!!!!!!!! I guess my point is that at least in Small Town, Indiana - most people who are obtaining Sub illegally ARE using it as a stepping stone to get clean. So sleep well :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:36 pm 
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Yes. Most take it so they don't get sick. I get that.

But. It's allowing them to binge and quit. They will still die sooner than later.

Also. It is ILLEGAL!!

Most addicts always look past illegality.

Point is. The people selling it aren't doing it to help other sick addicts or else it wouldn't have a huge mark up and it's criminal activity that gives us all a bad name. If it keeps coming up in arrests, then we are going to have big changes to OUR treatment. It will be just like methadone.

So instead of making excuses for those who refuse to get help or excuses for those selling suboxone illegally..... Think about all the bad that has and will come from it.


Speak out against these idiots selling suboxone!!!


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 Post subject: Simply put....
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:31 pm 
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DONT SELL SUBOXONE! ITS ILLEGAL!

That should be enough incentive, but when you add the possibility of stricter laws on suboxone and buprenorphine.... It should be a no brainer!

This isn't active addiction where we worry about snitching, criminals, being cool or not, ect. It's about doing the right thing! Doing it to make sure we all have suboxone doctors to even go to!

So. If you know of someone selling suboxone, for ANY reason, please do SOMETHING about it! Don't worry about the little stupid things. Worry about self preservation.


Do the right thing. Don't allow this to continue! Don't allow buprenorphine products being sold illegally give us ALL a bad wrap!

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Movie..
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:42 pm 
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"legal" is for pussies. ;)


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:05 am 
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I've been reading this thread the past few days...wondering how I would respond. I see your point, I would hate to see further restrictions on those of us who need it and wouldn't be able to make it work if we had to go to a clinic daily. I think that is one of the greatest benefits of this medication. Being able to see a doctor in a more private setting and having the medication filled a month at a time.

Unfortunately I don't think I could be a snitch...It's just not in me. I'm sure I'm not the only one who had that ingrained in me from the time I was old enough to be privy to what was going on around me. There is a code people...I have gotten over being considered an addict. I wouldn't be able to hold my head high in public if I was considered a snitch too. Crazy logic huh?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:06 am 
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This isn't really about whenits ok to "snitch"on someone about anything. How about following the rules as they are. Being responsible? The word snitch came up from a poster since deleted but I got his point too. Nobody wants to step up and do the right thing most of the time so it seems. Let somebody else do it, hell not me ,iswhat is said. Or the hell with it, it isn't really hurting me.. no, I'm not tryn to win the war on drugs here nor am I the morality cop, but wanted to see who or what the question bring. And the "code" of silence I read here, Hey, ain't thats america?? We have flood of sub here in or town of 55,000. Most of our problem comes from our large clinic. If there is room, you get sub. The addicts most very young and sell for other drugs. With the program that is in place they can get away with it. Many do well, some do not. I understand, it's just the way it is.. that's addiction.. .saw my addiction Dr at the store last night after my Na meeting, he had a cart full of beer. Haha.. you see, we aren't to be drinking beer and shuch. He at least said hello. Lol.. have a good Saturday everyone....


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:23 am 
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Hey Razor,

I was only trying to explain why I personally wouldn't turn someone in for it. I didn't mean to imply that anyone else was wrong for doing so. I guess I just wanted to put it out there that this is more than likely part of the reason why more people don't "tattle tail" on those who do divert their subs. I didn't see the other post that was deleted so I can't speak to what they said.

I know it is frustrating to watch others seemingly screwing up their recovery and knowing it might cause consequences for those of us who do take our recovery seriously. Unfortunately I don't think there is a good answer for it, I think if more doctors did random "pill counts" it would go a long way toward helping the situation. My doctor is one of the stricter ones in the area and he never does them. Others here don't even do drug testing every month. Maybe if there was more standardization in treatment it would help. However, that being said, I am strongly resistant to ANY further interferance by our government on our rights. Not just in this issue but in pretty much all areas of our lives. I am torn here.

I'm sorry if I came across as condemning those who are willing to step up and try to make a difference. That's not a bad thing. The last sentence of my above post recognized that my feelings aren't really logical...but they are my feelings.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:54 am 
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No, no Gal, it's all good. We're all tryn.... it's a touchy subject with many sides... plus you and the other horse girls have guns now. Lol.. enjoy your Saturday!!!! :-):-):-)


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:24 pm 
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That's right Razor...you are a wise man. :D :D

I am going to do my best to enjoy my Saturday, but I have a birthday party for my neice to go to. I might need to leave the weapon at home for the safety of my in-laws... :lol:

Carry on...

-Q


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:59 pm 
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In the grand scheme of things buprenorphine isn't on the streets or abused to the extent that other opioids are; I know that I personally couldn't use it when I had a habit. The only people it would appeal to would be opioid abusers without physical dependence. In reality a small fraction of Dr's are prescribing buprenorphine and only to a caseload of 100 clients at max, this is in contrast to ALL Dr's with a DEA# having the ability to prescribe any other opioid minus methadone for the treatment of addiction; it's these other opioids that are more desirable and are seen on the street to a greater extent. Statutes governing the use of buprenorphine in medication assisted treatment facilities (formerly 'methadone clinics') are actually becoming more relaxed and more flexible than methadone dispensed in the same setting. I don't see buprenorphine becoming schedule II in the next 5 years or the next 20 years; I don't even think that hydrocodone/APAP (i.e Vicodin, Lortab, Norco), a MUCH more widely abused and referenced opioid of abuse 'should' or likely will ever be CII rather than CIII.

Trust me, though, BIG changes are coming down the pike due to the Prescription Monitoring Plan. It's already made a noticible dent in illicit or suspicious use of controlled substances and in the next few years as it becomes more sophisticated lets just say that active addicts won't be too happy about it...Kinda scary, actually... and I'm not even an active addict.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:11 pm 
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Personally, I don't see Suboxone ever being forced into a "clinic only" situation, Reckitt Benkiser would never allow that to happen. RB realizes massive profits from their sale of Suboxone and I have no doubt whatsoever that some of that money finds its way into the pockets of our outstanding politicians!

As to the moral question of whether it's right or wrong to sell Suboxone on the street, this debate has two clear sides to it and I don't think either side is any more right or wrong than the other. Both sides have valid points.

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