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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:55 am 
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Ok so long story short I have been on Subtex for a little over a year. I like most started out on 16 mg a day... for the past 2 months have been on 8 mg a day... until I SLIPPED! Yes I slipped... and the worst part about it was it was a planned slip. I went on a 1 1/2 week long Fentanyl BINGE... My dreaded drug of choice. Boy did I use HEAVY. I went through TEN 50mcg patches in that short time... 1 a day :oops: I had heard of people going back to there DOC just so they could start out on a lower dose of SUBS. So that is how I was able to justify that wretched decision in my mind... AND u know what they say about justification? It's like masturbation, in the end your only screwing yourself :oops: So 4 days ago I did my last patch early in the morning. That night I decided to go ahead and take my first 4 mg dose of Subutex to avoid night sweats... BOOOOY was that a mistake. I had no clue wat PW's were. Well they hit me HARD by about 3 in the morning. I woke up and thought I was gonna die. This lasted ALL that day and into the following day. I am just NOW starting to feel ok. It was TERRIBLE.
Well the reason I started this post was because of a few of the other threads I ran across these past few days such as the one on testosterone, Fatigue, ect. These are all side effects that I was feeling throughout my Subutex treatment and feel this very minute. However I noticed that on my so called binge... I was FULL of energy, felt great and I'm not talking about the high I was getting, just had lots of social go go power and felt overall great. I even had my sex drive return with a vengeance. I am now convinced that Subutex or Suboxone whatever your on has the following side effect on males, low testosterone, depression, fatigue, laziness, ect... not sure about females. I get that Subs are a tool for addicts to use... but REALLY. More research should have been done regarding the side effects. Yes I am able to stay clean but at the cost of wat... feeling alive. I feel so dead on the subs I hate it. I am so lost right now and don't know what to do :cry:
Has anyone else experienced this? I am 27 soon to be 28, in great shape, and should be living one hell of a life. But I'm not!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:17 am 
Gday Rancid,
Welcome to the board, there are a lot of good people here with a wealth of experience and sound knowledge.
What concerns me a bit about your post is that you seem to be comparing the way you feel on Subutex to how you feel on FULL AGONIST opiates as “normal”, how long has it been since you were totally clean of all medications opiates etc and why did taking Fentanyl to excess appeal to you in the first place, was part of the reason to get that “alive” “Full of Energy” feeling?
Feeling great, motivated and full of energy is TYPICAL for many people on full agonists and you’re NOT going to feel that way on a partial agonist like Buprenorphine. I remember when I first started taking Oxy I felt exactly the same way, my wife used to call it “Oxy Energy”, she could always tell when I was using and she HATED it, sure, I was full of life, but it just wasn’t me.
So yeah, I guess you have to reflect back on life as it was before opiates took over and compare THAT to how you feel now. Anyway Good Luck and hang around, there’s lots of people here who can help you.
Cheers,
Subie


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:41 am 
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Thanks for the quick reply. I very much regret my slip up. I was actually doing very well on my sub treatment and was on a nice solid tapper. To be honest I caved because I just got 2 depressed. My addiction destroyed my marriage and caused a divorce. I boohoo daily about this. On subs I am able to feel all the pain and anguish that I so disparately want to avoid. Well after a year and a half of clean sobriety on Subs I finally caved. I had been trying to work out things with my ex wife but she just keeps going back and forth and it is SO taxing on me. To complicate things even more we have a wonderful 3 year old little boy that is utterly clueless, thank god. I am sure that is also part of the reason I feel so dead and fatigued much of the time. I'm sure it's not just the Subs but has more to do with my personal problems. I don't stinkin know...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:37 am 
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Wow. I can't imagine the pain of a messy divorce, esp when young kids are involved. It must be really difficult. But I've seen a lot of people go through it, and things do resolve and calm, regardless of the outcome.

For me too, Buprenorphine reduces my libido moreso than the agonists, methadone included. And it perhaps makes me ... not fatigued ... but I certainly need more sleep. 8 hours a day isn't enough. But overall, my life on buprenorphine is better than on methadone. I've managed to find a balance with the libido thing. By keeping my dose to 12mg and under, I don't feel completely dead sexually.

Things sound really messy for you right now emotionally. When stuff gets like that, it's a good idea to ... do nothing. Make no big life decisions, esp regarding treatment. Let yourself settle so you can assess things more clearly.

I don't know any recovering addict who doesn't want to use when life gets painful. But we gotta be able to work through the pain ourselves if we ever want a chance of staying clean. Most people out there have developed a thick skin enough to work through life's painful moments. We never give ourselves a chance to develop that, because we keep running off and blacking ourselves out. It's too much for us. But when we decide not to use, and fight our way through the shit ourselves. That's when the real change happens I think.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:55 am 
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Rancid wrote:
Thanks for the quick reply. I very much regret my slip up. I was actually doing very well on my sub treatment and was on a nice solid tapper. To be honest I caved because I just got 2 depressed. My addiction destroyed my marriage and caused a divorce. I boohoo daily about this. On subs I am able to feel all the pain and anguish that I so disparately want to avoid. Well after a year and a half of clean sobriety on Subs I finally caved. I had been trying to work out things with my ex wife but she just keeps going back and forth and it is SO taxing on me. To complicate things even more we have a wonderful 3 year old little boy that is utterly clueless, thank god. I am sure that is also part of the reason I feel so dead and fatigued much of the time. I'm sure it's not just the Subs but has more to do with my personal problems. I don't stinkin know...


You really should read my story...read about what I did to my wife, the person who was my first ..and I was her first, back when we were in our teens. Now, I'm 33 and she's 31 (32 in August). We'll be married 14 years on June 6 of this year.

But I'm definitely LUCKY to be celebrating still being married. When I went off the deep end, 4 years ago...and stayed in the pits for 7-8 months doing Oxy...I thought to myself "she won't leave..hell we've been together all these years, why would she leave me, I'm not such a bad guy, just like my pills."

Boy was I wrong. And as you can read in my story, we had 3 kids at the time. All age 7 and under.

Did I deserve the chance I got? Hell no...I didn't. After the damage I did to our relationship, and the lies and distrust I injected into it...I did not. And above all of that, I slept with someone else...and she did --- nothing. She did go out on a date, once, but the guy said she was too much of a good girl, and wouldn't even kiss her. Why did I deserve someone who devoted her entire life to me, and who loved me so much that for months before leaving me, she put our kids 2nd, and me 1st? It should've never came to that...but it did. I slowly made her choose, and for a while, she chose me..

But when I cleaned up..she came back, slowly at first..but saw that I was serious. ....and with that, we started working on the things that had been hidden by addiction, and rebuilt our trust and honesty again.
Now..a couple of years into that working on things...we're readying ourselves to have another baby, our final child..and the sweet little girl we're expecting is due around March. So it CAN be done, there's not so much done that can't be undone. It just takes the willingness of both parties to give wholeheartedly and support each other. And TRUST.

Sex drive...what sex drive?? Well, I cant say that because she's pregnant..obviously we're doing it...it's not what it used to be, but it's not absent either. I'd say we're in a happy medium with it...where I'm not a horny teenager and she's getting it enough to keep her satisfied..We base our bedroom affairs on what the other person wants...and if she wants more, she'll let me know.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:26 pm 
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That's really inspiring and you know what sometimes stories like that help more than the harsh reality. I am so happy to hear that drugs only robbed you for a while and you and she won in the end. And congrats on the new baby. I am so happy in fact I am going to close my computer now and go to bed. A happily ever after moment. Thanks.

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Wishing you the best in love and life. Finallyachance.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:16 am 
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finallyachance wrote:
That's really inspiring and you know what sometimes stories like that help more than the harsh reality. I am so happy to hear that drugs only robbed you for a while and you and she won in the end. And congrats on the new baby. I am so happy in fact I am going to close my computer now and go to bed. A happily ever after moment. Thanks.


You should visit the My Induction Story section and read my entire "passage"....

It's pretty long though, and took me quite a bit of time to author it..the morning that I typed out that story, I remember going through nearly an entire pot of coffee (duly noted that I drink coffee ENTIRELY too much..there isn't a DAY that passes that we don't make AT LEAST 4 pots of 10-cup coffee...I drink coffee from the time I get up until the time i go to bed.)

But my story tells how I started into pills, somewhat..though I didn't do an entire history -- it gives the basic design of addiction and how I came to enjoy the high...and goes into the major problems that pills caused.

My wife and I had split once or twice before -- ALL over the pill issues. But now..splitting up is the absolutely the last thing on our minds. I love her to death (do you part)....and i take my vows VERY seriously, as does she. We are a good couple..and we do have a loving home NOW...whereas pills brought a personality out of me that was mean, ill-tempered, and untrusting.

I've always been hopeful that I can tell someone my personal experience, and that can be an inspirational story to someone and show them that "wow, though ALL of that, this guy made it and turned it all around."

I once thought that the only way out...was the ULTIMATE way "out". And I am not trying to brag about being intelligent..but I'm way too smart to even consider suicide...I have too much sense for something like that...but I just knew that my life would never be the same if I didn't continue taking opiates. I knew that I couldn't exist or function if I didn't keep enough opiate in my system to ward-off the withdrawals that I felt when I would come down...and I did NOT want to live that way. So the only "escape" that I could fathom, in my high mind, was taking the ultimate sacrifice, and ridding the earth of my existence. I thought that was ALL I could do to get out of that..
If I had to guess, or estimate, I would say that if I had NOT found suboxone when I did, and got into a program..that I might've made it another year. And unless I got locked up or shot..or forced the cops to kill me...if that year would've been spent as the prior 8 months, I would've OD'd on purpose and tried to end it all. I had a motorcycle at the time, and I was already trying to find ways to run it up a tree or power pole so that I could escape the torture of addiction.

I didn't want to be a bad person..and I didn't want to be mistrusted..I wanted to be normal, like everyone else. But I just knew that I would never feel that again....so I got lucky.
What saddens me is that there are people out there who aren't so lucky. There are folks who don't get that life-saving treatment..or that get help just in the nick of time...and they keep going until they've gone too far. And to some extent, I guess I feel a little bit of guilt, just a little, because I'm cheating the addiction. I'm cheating it, AND beating it...something that SOME folks won't ever have the luxury of doing...so I know where I am right now is only by the grace of God. Apparently he had a purpose for me, and allowed me to find my footing and step back from the edge...and I'm grateful for that. I only wish that I could help all those people who were, like me, teetering on the brink or edge, and catch them before they take the plunge or go over the edge. This is why I tell my story..it's why I joined here...hopefully I can bring hope to someone..and if I save just ONE person..then I know that I've done something in return of the blessing that I received.


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