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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm 
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Suboxone, as a type of opiate (a partial agonist as compared to a full agonist, which are "regular" pain pills), is occupying the opiate receptors in your brain and that is what's preventing you from having cravings.

If you're not sure if what you're feeling is withdrawals from the full agonist opiates or from too much suboxone, you can always check out the size of your pupils. If you're experiencing withdrawals, your pupils will normally be dilated, whereas if you have too much suboxone your pupils could very well be pinpoint.

I think you should just wait a bit before you decide whether to stay on suboxone or not. In my opinion, you'll be weighing two things - raising your tolerance to opiates (staying on suboxone will do that) or stopping suboxone and keeping your tolerance down, yet risking relapse - and we all know how deadly that can be. See how you stabilize on a low dose first and see how you feel. You don't have to decide now. I also think it depends on how bad your addiction got. And I don't mean how many pain pills you were taking in a day. I mean how messed up your life got because of the pills. That is how I determine how bad one's addiction is. Only you can determine how out of control you life got or was getting. If you think you need time to straighten out your head, your life, and/or your relationships, then maybe staying on a really low dose of sub is something that will help you. But like I said, you have time to think about it.

I hope you feel better very soon. Hang in there!

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 Post subject: Thanks
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:55 pm 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
Suboxone, as a type of opiate (a partial agonist as compared to a full agonist, which are "regular" pain pills), is occupying the opiate receptors in your brain and that is what's preventing you from having cravings.

If you're not sure if what you're feeling is withdrawals from the full agonist opiates or from too much suboxone, you can always check out the size of your pupils. If you're experiencing withdrawals, your pupils will normally be dilated, whereas if you have too much suboxone your pupils could very well be pinpoint.

I think you should just wait a bit before you decide whether to stay on suboxone or not. In my opinion, you'll be weighing two things - raising your tolerance to opiates (staying on suboxone will do that) or stopping suboxone and keeping your tolerance down, yet risking relapse - and we all know how deadly that can be. See how you stabilize on a low dose first and see how you feel. You don't have to decide now. I also think it depends on how bad your addiction got. And I don't mean how many pain pills you were taking in a day. I mean how messed up your life got because of the pills. That is how I determine how bad one's addiction is. Only you can determine how out of control you life got or was getting. If you think you need time to straighten out your head, your life, and/or your relationships, then maybe staying on a really low dose of sub is something that will help you. But like I said, you have time to think about it.

I hope you feel better very soon. Hang in there!



Very helpful information. Thanks very much for your response. Will keep you updated and thanks for the support.

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 Post subject: Thanks
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:57 pm 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
Suboxone, as a type of opiate (a partial agonist as compared to a full agonist, which are "regular" pain pills), is occupying the opiate receptors in your brain and that is what's preventing you from having cravings.

If you're not sure if what you're feeling is withdrawals from the full agonist opiates or from too much suboxone, you can always check out the size of your pupils. If you're experiencing withdrawals, your pupils will normally be dilated, whereas if you have too much suboxone your pupils could very well be pinpoint.

I think you should just wait a bit before you decide whether to stay on suboxone or not. In my opinion, you'll be weighing two things - raising your tolerance to opiates (staying on suboxone will do that) or stopping suboxone and keeping your tolerance down, yet risking relapse - and we all know how deadly that can be. See how you stabilize on a low dose first and see how you feel. You don't have to decide now. I also think it depends on how bad your addiction got. And I don't mean how many pain pills you were taking in a day. I mean how messed up your life got because of the pills. That is how I determine how bad one's addiction is. Only you can determine how out of control you life got or was getting. If you think you need time to straighten out your head, your life, and/or your relationships, then maybe staying on a really low dose of sub is something that will help you. But like I said, you have time to think about it.

I hope you feel better very soon. Hang in there!



Very helpful information. Thanks very much for your response. Will keep you updated and thanks for the support.

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— Viktor Emil Frankl (Man's Search for Meaning)


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 Post subject: Todays dose?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:14 pm 
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Ok. I am ready for todays dose. I am just super tired/no energy and feel like a do when I am "ready for he next vicodin". Should I try a smaller dose of the suboxone today to feel better. As I know now 1 mg was too much I could try just a tiny a,ount that many of you suggest. The doc. dosed it every other day. How long should I typically stay on the suboxone??? He gave me 5 pills which isn't alot but hoping I can just stop when they are gone. I am hoping I am not increasing m opiate tolerance as they are strong! Mu question is this: I probably am having some withdrawal from the vicodin for taking it consistently for 2 years. Do the extra receptors being made from the tolerance dissipate/decrease over time???
Will I have any or some withdrawal after topping the sub?

THANKS!!!!!!

Diane

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 Post subject: Pain Increase
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:16 pm 
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I also noticed an increase in pain today. Feels like my whole body hurts-back, legs, shoulders, etc...I figure this is normal?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:04 pm 
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Hey Bono Kisser,

You asked some tricky questions. For example, you asked how long to stay on Suboxone, well, if you're just using Suboxone as a detox tool then those 5 pills are probably going to be enough for you, BUT just because you get over the detox part doesn't mean that you still don't have your addiction to deal with. Many of us need to stay on Suboxone for a good while, we need that time to get our heads screwed back on straight.

Unfortunately, I can't answer the question of how long you should be on Suboxone because I really don't know how strong your addiction is, only YOU know the answer to how bad your addiction is.

Next you asked if the extra receptors will go away over time, the simple answer is yes. You have to remember that Suboxone is an opiate too though, as you decrease you Suboxone intake those receptors will die off. It's my understanding that if you're on a fairly high dose of Suboxone, those receptors don't "go away", only as you start to taper off of Suboxone do they die off. I have to interject here that the notion of us growing extra receptors to accomodate the added opiates in our body is not necessarily fact. I know I've heard that that's what happens to our brains, I'm just not sure if it's scientifically proven?

If you manage to get your Suboxone dose low enough, you will experience minimal wd when you quit taking Suboxone. Because you have the 2mg pills, it's gonna be a little difficult to get to really low doses. You can get those pills cut as small as possible, probably quartering them is the best you're gonna get, then space your doses out as far as you can, some people taper that way and they've been successful. The whole goal is to keep giving your body/brain less and less opiate over time, you can certainly do that by spacing your dose out.

The body aches you're experiencing are normal for someone tapering off of Suboxone.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:51 pm 
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I guess I'm kind of a latecomer to this thread. I'm just a bit surprised that no one has mentioned that Sub really isn't meant to be used at 1 and 0.5mg doses (unless you are at the end of tapering off of it). At those doses Sub acts like a full agonist (like regular opiates), and will make you feel "spacey" as you said in your first post. Also, at that level it doesn't build up in your system so dosing every other day makes no sense at all.

Right on the prescribing info. It says that induction usually starts with a 4mg dose. The reason is that 4mg is generally accepted to be the lowest dose to be at the ceiling level, where you reach a steady state of receptor binding, so you don't feel any highs and lows while on the medication. It's the magic of the ceiling level that makes Sub a good treatment for addicts. The problem is that if you were to take 4mg you would probably overdose (experience vomiting, etc). So I have to question whether Sub is really an appropriate treatment for you. Someone suggested an addiction counselor. Perhaps you can also see a doctor who can give you some comfort meds like Clonidine and you can go directly off of the hydro, instead of raising your tolerance with Sub leading to bigger issues later.

I really hope you feel better, and good for you firing your idiot doctor.


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 Post subject: Bono Kisser
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:43 am 
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Romeo wrote:
Hey Bono Kisser,

You asked some tricky questions. For example, you asked how long to stay on Suboxone, well, if you're just using Suboxone as a detox tool then those 5 pills are probably going to be enough for you, BUT just because you get over the detox part doesn't mean that you still don't have your addiction to deal with. Many of us need to stay on Suboxone for a good while, we need that time to get our heads screwed back on straight.

Unfortunately, I can't answer the question of how long you should be on Suboxone because I really don't know how strong your addiction is, only YOU know the answer to how bad your addiction is.

Next you asked if the extra receptors will go away over time, the simple answer is yes. You have to remember that Suboxone is an opiate too though, as you decrease you Suboxone intake those receptors will die off. It's my understanding that if you're on a fairly high dose of Suboxone, those receptors don't "go away", only as you start to taper off of Suboxone do they die off. I have to interject here that the notion of us growing extra receptors to accomodate the added opiates in our body is not necessarily fact. I know I've heard that that's what happens to our brains, I'm just not sure if it's scientifically proven?

If you manage to get your Suboxone dose low enough, you will experience minimal wd when you quit taking Suboxone. Because you have the 2mg pills, it's gonna be a little difficult to get to really low doses. You can get those pills cut as small as possible, probably quartering them is the best you're gonna get, then space your doses out as far as you can, some people taper that way and they've been successful. The whole goal is to keep giving your body/brain less and less opiate over time, you can certainly do that by spacing your dose out.

The body aches you're experiencing are normal for someone tapering off of Suboxone.


Romeo! Bono Kissrer. I just loved that and needed that laugh today, so thank you for that. I am going to see if I can change my user name to that instead of u2star!!! Thanks for answering those questions. I spent the day online looking for a subox doc. I have a call into an addiction psychiatrist/md/subox doc. Hoping I can get an appointment soon. They haven't called back yet. I called one in the Houston area and his next available opening was October (now, seriously??!!***) I have been taking a quarter of that 2mg pill and it is helping the withdrawals. You were correct on that I was originally dosed too high. I am only on day 5 of no vicodin! I haven't had cravings-but some hot/cold sweats, chills, extreme fatigue/tiredness, and no appetite. The subox has been helping somewhat with that but I am trying to keep it low. Scary doing it without doc since I fired my last one but without this forum I would have been lost-so another BG thank you!!!! Will keep trying or tha subox doc and support group/outpatient. Keep in touch.

Bono Kisser

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 Post subject: sub. Side effects reply
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:48 am 
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Lillyval wrote:
I guess I'm kind of a latecomer to this thread. I'm just a bit surprised that no one has mentioned that Sub really isn't meant to be used at 1 and 0.5mg doses (unless you are at the end of tapering off of it). At those doses Sub acts like a full agonist (like regular opiates), and will make you feel "spacey" as you said in your first post. Also, at that level it doesn't build up in your system so dosing every other day makes no sense at all.

Right on the prescribing info. It says that induction usually starts with a 4mg dose. The reason is that 4mg is generally accepted to be the lowest dose to be at the ceiling level, where you reach a steady state of receptor binding, so you don't feel any highs and lows while on the medication. It's the magic of the ceiling level that makes Sub a good treatment for addicts. The problem is that if you were to take 4mg you would probably overdose (experience vomiting, etc). So I have to question whether Sub is really an appropriate treatment for you. Someone suggested an addiction counselor. Perhaps you can also see a doctor who can give you some comfort meds like Clonidine and you can go directly off of the hydro, instead of raising your tolerance with Sub leading to bigger issues later.

I really hope you feel better, and good for you firing your idiot doctor.


I am completely off the hydro as of day 5. My "doc" put me on .5 every other day because of my relatively low dose of opioid abuse (but using 2 years every day). 0.5 was too much when I started it. I went down another quarter and have been using it daily and it reduced my cravings and made my withdrawal symptoms manageable. (and avoided the zoned out nod/nausea I was having) Thanks Romeo. Looking for another doc to support what I am doing. Seems to be helping. No cravings. Looking for support to help my addiction/disease with outpatient. Hoping the new doc can provide some suggestions there too. I am working with a psychologist for the mental health end. Thanks for the support.

Bono Kisser/u2star

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:15 am 
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Hey BK :D ,

A friend of mine here where I live did what you and a few others are doing. He was on Lorcet Plus (7.5mg Hydrocodone 4 or 5 times daily) for over a year, he wanted off, but couldn't really afford a long term Suboxone program. He got a handful of Suboxone from "the streets" and proceeded to do his own taper. He started out around 4mg daily, did that for a few days to ensure the worst of the Hydrocodone wd was behind him then he tapered down over the next several days. He took Suboxone for 9 or 10 days in all then quit. His last dose of Suboxone was around 2mg. When he quit Suboxone, he had 3 days where he felt less than spectacular, he slept a lot, but around day 4 with no Suboxone he felt a lot better.

Another member from this site, I think her screen name is 'newlifestart', did much the same. She took Suboxone for a very short period of time, I believe she only took a few doses in all, then she quit and suffered barely any wd at all. You, my friend and newlifestart all had a short and not terribly severe opiate addiction, I think because of that you'll be able to discontinue your Suboxone after several more days.......if you so wish.

Staying on an extremely low dose of Suboxone to help you ward off any cravings is not a bad idea either though, I guess it's just gonna depend on if you can get into see a Suboxone doctor fairly soon.

Good luck Bono Kisser!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:49 pm 
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This is and old post I just wanted to say that 1mg is not reallyba low dose I iv'd heroin for about eight months got up to about a 1/2 a gram a day using about 5 times a day then seemed down to 3 shots weighing .03 to .04 then went to suboxane I started with 1mg a day for to days then went to .05 mg a day and felt no withdrawels except night sweats that went away after I moved my dosing time to morning from night.After a week of .05mg I started to do .025 every few days then every other day then to everyday day.After a week of that I started skipping days meaning taking nothing got to were I could go 3 days without and quit.I experience a few nights of sleeping only few hours after I was fine a think most people take to much sub


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:29 am 
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Hello Mike,

Yes 1mg of sub is still a high dose of buprenorphine, since buprenorphine is a powerful medication,& when given for pain it is prescribed in microgram doses. As far as for purposes of treating opiate addiction, 1 mg however, is actually not considered a very high dose, and most people need a higher dose than that to get rid of withdrawal symptoms, and cravings. With suboxone, the idea is to stay abive the celing level of yhe medication for the entire 24 hour dosing interval to accomplish this. Everyone, however, is different. Alright it only took 1 mg to get rid of your symptoms, it takes more than that for most people. You can't really say for certain that no one needs more than "x" amount of medication. Please try to refrain from making generalized statements about what dosage everyone needs , since everyone is different. I'm not picking on you here man, just that many people have already made their decision to remain on buprenorphine at a dose that removes their cravings, and takes away withdrawal symptoms. That can vary greatly from one person to another as can wd symptoms experienced once the jump is made. While some people are at the end of their journey with sub,some aren't and possibly won't ever be, and we are supportive here of whatever treatment decision a person has chosen for their opioid addiction.

Yes, this is an older thread also, why don't you post a little something in the introductions section to tell us more about yourself? Your taper method sounds interesting, albeit fast, but may help someone else.


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