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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:07 pm 
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Okay. I'm going to try and make this short.
I have been on Suboxone (8mg buprenorphine/2mg of naloxone) for the better part of 13 months. When I say the "better part", this means that I've relapsed a couple times. My longest relapse was 2 months, and I have now been morphine-free for over four months. I have always been taking a dose of 8mg.
In the past three weeks, I have noticed that my Suboxone isn't working very well. When I first started taking it, I could go for 3 days between doses without going into withdrawals. Now, I can't even go 12 hours, sometimes less, before getting sick.

This has happened to me once before, in October. I went cold turkey, and went to detox for 5 days but the withdrawals were unbearable (much, much worse than coming off morphine) and kept getting worse and worse as the days went on. I was in so much pain, I ended up getting morphine, using for two months, and that brings us to where we are now.

I want to know why this is happening, and if there is anything I can do about it.
I don't want to raise my dose. I've already been on this medication for far too long. I can't do it cold-turkey, because I estimate that I wouldn't be able to work for weeks afterward, and I am finding it so hard to continue on the way I'm going. During the few precious moments that I have to myself, I have been researching the topic, and it seems that I'm not the only one this is happening to. The first time it happened, my doctor chalked it up to the massive depression that I was experiencing. Since then, I have started taking Cipralex (10mg/day) and I am happy, healthy, working full time, and in a wonderful relationship.
Has this ever happened to you? If so, what did you do? I'm really open to suggestions right now. My livelihood depends on it.

Right now, I am not seeing my prescribing doctor until the 18th. My doctor is fantastic. He has always been so supportive, and always manages to make me laugh, even when I'm in a real bind. I don't know what to do. I don't want to fall back into the deadly cycle of using just to get well. I don't want to throw away all my hard work. I don't want to hurt my loved ones by hurting myself. And most of all, I don't want to die.

Please, if you have any advice, I'd love to read it.
Thank you!

P.S.: I think the name of this forum is ingenious.


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 Post subject: I feel your pain
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:20 pm 
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I am in a similar situation as you are. This is the exact reason I joined this forum just today. I have been on suboxone since Oct of 2007. I have not relapsed this time. Before Oct I actually tried it a year before and I relapsed and used for another year. Right now I am trying to get off the Suboxone and I can't. My doctor has told me to taper down. I am only taking 2mg a day. I take a 1/2 in the morning and a 1/2 in the afternoon. How can I taper even more off 2mg. he says if I have to take 1/2 the 1/2's. he suggested like every other day cut the dose in half until your mind and your body get used to it. In otherwords 1 day take your normal dose the next day take 1/2 away, then the next day go back to normal dose, then the next day do 1/2 again. Until you are comforatable them do it again until you get down to nothing. he did say you will feel some withdrawals. He said take a least off from any stress. So what I did instead of tapering my little 2 mg. I decided to quit cold turkey. Within like you said 12 hours I was experiencing alot more tiredness than I normally feel, I got a headache and lots of muscle pain. I noticed if I didnt' think about it I was able to deal with it. (mind you I was at work) So day 1 I did fine, I was even able to sleep at night. Day 2 was a little worse i was hurting, and very very tired, could hardly stand up, but i was a trooper through work, I even managed to get my kids to baseball practice that night. That night I slept, but tossed and turned alot. Day 3, I was fine in the morning, I was a little tired but I am used to being tired. Around noon I was dying. I couldn't focus, I felt like I had the flu. i went home early from work, tried to go home and sleep... couldn't sleep of course, went and picked up the kids from school, muddled through their homework with them, just telling them I wasn't feeling well, I was very irratible as well. I knew I was in the long haul for sleep that night. So I had my husband bring home some Nyquil hoping it would help the aches and pains and knock me out. Wrong!! I was up all night long!! The next morning, I didn't go into work I was so tired. I said screw it called the doctor to fill my script of suboxone and told myself and my husband that I need a full week to get off of this crap!! My problem is i always have to much to do. for me to be down a week is just not possible. My husband works crazy hours and we have 2 kids. I will say... I am finished with the opiates. I took lorcet for 3 years straight i got up to 15-20 a day. I don't want or crave the opiates at all, that is the last thing on this earth i want to go back to. the only thing I want to do is get off the suboxone.

my problem right now, is I am tired all of the time. i am thinking it is the suboxone making me feel this way. i have been feeling it for the last couple of months. I am so tired it takes me just about until mid day, to really get going. then my day is gone. It is effecting my focus at work. I have gone to a doctor because I have all the symptoms of depression, i took Lexapro for a couple of months, but it didn't even help. I have been to 3 different doctors about my tiredness, and all have checked my thyroids, I have nothing wrong there. I have put on about 30 lbs as well.

i am jsut wondering is anyone else feeling this as well?? At first when I started taking the Suboxone it made me very focused, and i had normal energy. (Like you do when you are normal). then just all of a sudden it was gone. My doctor even explained to me that opiates take away your B Vitamins so he told me to take Super B vitamins daily so I do that, but it doesn't help either.

back to you. If you have relapsed I would still continue to take the suboxone. Both of the doctors i have been to about the suboxone have told me you can not get off of it until you feel normal. In otherwords you do not want whatever it is that you were addicted to any more. That is the first step. It seems to me you are not ready if you are even thinking about going back to the morphine. As far as getting off the suboxone, I am almost wondering if it is best to go to the hospital and do one of the outpatient services where they hook you up to an IV and flush it all out??


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 Post subject: Same here!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:26 pm 
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And it's the reason I joined also. I've been on sub's since August 2008. Dr wrote for 3/day, which I never took...I seemed to be fine with just 2/day...and shortly went down to just 1/day. 1/2 in AM and 1/2 in evening. I've been going on this way for awhile now, and have been feeling great.
BUt within the last month, I started to notice...that 1/day just wasnt doing it for me anymore. I had mad cravings back. I have a lot of stress going on in my life right now (bad custody battle, family issues, work, etc.) and I think this is the reason for the cravings. Before, on my pills, I felt stress, I'd pop a few more vicodin's and everything would be OK. (Im sure ya'll know what Im talking about) But...Im done with those, I DONT want them anymore but I don't want to feel like this either.
I called my Dr's office today, and explained that I wanted to come in and talk to the Dr about my treatment. They got me in tomorrow morning, which is great. Because, I hate to say it...I've already been trying to take 2/day and, although it makes me feel better...it means, of course, I'll run out before my next appt. Im scared to death the Dr is going to be mad because I up'd my dose without speaking to him first. But, I figure at this point all I can do is be honest with him and say I was feeling horrible, tried taking 2 and it worked. Now, I havent done this everyday but on those days, when the cravings get bad, I give myself a little extra. And, I know we arent suppose to do that...But, I really felt I was either going to do that OR go back to the pain med's...and that's NOT a road I want to go down. So, I figure if I go and tell him this...tell him I was really close to going back on the pills, and decided it would be better to take a extra sub...he'll understand. My Dr, I must say is awesome. He's not judgemental or pushy, he leaves my treatment up to me...doesnt push for me to taper off, because I know Im not ready for that...obviously.
SO I was wondering, if anyone's had experiance with this...sub's not working...or taking more that you should have, and having to tell the Dr...anything at all will help me...thanks.


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 Post subject: BEEN THERE
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:50 am 
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i know I have been where you are. having the cravings coming out of nowhere and taking an extra to help it. I think your on the right track about being honest with your doctor. he may not be happy that you did it, but I think he understands. When I did this, I told my doctor as well. He prescribed me an anxiety pill for those rare occasions that did happen, because it really is you having anxiety and since we are addicts we want to go back to our old habits because that is what made us feel good. I don't know if you have ever went off the wagon or not, but I did the first time I tried Suboxone. I will tell you when I went back to the opiates, It didn't feel like the first time I was addicted... It never felt as fun. Also the anxiety pill he presribed me was not Xanax, it was some very old cheap medication he presribed me, that i was allowed to take 4 times a day. It started with a H, he wrote me a script for 60 and that 60 lasted me like 4 months. So i didn't need them everyday, just days when i had a lot going on and didn't feel like I could manage life in general. My biggest problem is the energy rush I used to get, I mean I could clean a house in a few hours spot less and I wanted to when I was using. Now I don't have the motivation, it gets done but it takes me all day. Also something that will help you with the stress, it taking Bcomplex vitamins, if you take 3 a day you will be surprised how much it relieves stress as well. I know exactly where you are and how you are feeling. The answer for us always seems the easy way out, just start using and we will feel better!! That isn't true though, As long as you have been on suboxone it will take at least a week or so to get completely out of your system, (maybe 3 to 4 days) if you take any opiates before it is out of your system, it will throw you into sever withdrawals, don't do it you will feel worse in the end. I will say Monday when I joined this site, talking it out has helped me. I try to talk to my husband about it, especially after last week trying to get off suboxone and he just does not understand what I am going through. He wants to help, but he just doesn't understand fully. All he can do is be supportive. Good luck with the doctor, it is good you have a good supportive one. I have a good supportive one as well, and his nurse is awesome too, it helps to have them support you. That is what they are suppose to be there for. Also with all that you have going on have you considered maybe needing an antidepressant?? Get online and take a depression quiz, take it into the doctor and maybe he can help you with that and that will help with the cravings for the other. I truly believe the cravings wouldn't exist uless there is something wrong I mean after all we all started them because they made us feel better. I hope it helps a little


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 Post subject: back from the Dr.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:57 am 
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I was totally honest with him, told him what was going on in my life- although he already knew to some extent, since Ive been seeing him for awhile. And told him, Im pretty sure the extra stress is a cause for the cravings out of nowhere. He agreed. He did bump up my dose, to 1 1/2/day...which is good for me. I didn't want to go any higher then I have to. I mean, I felt great on just 1/day and felt so defeated admitting I may need a little more to get by. Felt like..two steps forward, one back sort of thing. But he assured me, sometimes things like this happen, depending what is going on in life. He wasnt mad, what so ever, that I self-medicated myself, by taking a little extra. And was glad I did that rather then go pop some pills. I've never relapsed, although Ive been close- to the point of having them in my hand- but I knew once I did that...it was just a losing battle. I felt if I did that, going back on the sub's would never be the same. So I flushed them and felt damn good for doing it.
So I guess in the end it all worked out. As for the depression meds, I have some and take for anxiety, simailar to your situation from time to time but I have the problem of them making me feel so damn out of it...I can't function. I feel like a walking zombie. And since I am a single mom, working full time, and when Im not working, I have my son...it's hard to take them. I can't just go..lay down and take a nap, you know? Unless of course he does...and haha..good luck with that! So..I only take them with I absolutley have to. (i know that spelling is wrong)
The Dr and I talked today about some other options that we can try, if just taking the 1 1/2/ day doesnt do the trick, so we'll see. Im lucky to have a understand, supportive Dr who is willing to help. And try different things, some Dr's these days are so damn close minded. This is the 2nd Sub. Dr I had- the first OVERCHARGED big time, didn't accept my insurance- she was a...well...she was in it for the money NOT to help people. The Dr I go to now, is cheap- suprisingly cheap, I've heard some of the prices people are paying and I thank my lucky stars I have the Dr I do...He definitly isn't in it for the money- he wants to help people and that's awesome to find these days.
I know what you mean about talking to your husband. If they haven't been there...they just don't get it. They try, and you've gotta give them credit for that- but...they just dont. I know my ex- used to try to understand but then would turn around and say something just mean and rude to me when it was time for me to take a pill- like "oh popping another one?" He saw sub's as just another addiction- which, I know it can be...But I also know without Subs, I would still be on vic's and...Id rather have it this way, anyday. These message boards definitly do help, talking to people who are there or have been there.
So, thanks again for the reply, I appreciate it!!


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 Post subject: good
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:21 pm 
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I am glad to hear it all turned out good!!

I know what you mean on the depression thing, I asked because I tried it too, and it didn't work but I thought maybe it could work for someone else.

I know what you mean about not being able to lay down or anything like you need too. I have 2 kids, and I work and my husband works crazy hours... it is like, I am a single mom only I have 2 incomes!! hang in there and dont' look at it as a step back look at it as you saved yourself from using again!! Just always think it could be worse!!

If you ever want to just talk you can always PM me.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:45 pm 
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if you take any opiates before it is out of your system, it will throw you into sever withdrawals, don't do it you will feel worse in the end.


The statement above is not true. It is the other way around. If you are on opiates and take suboxone then you will go into withdrawls. If your on suboxone at least 8mg then you probable won't feel the opiates because it will be blocked from the recepters. I hope everything works out for the both of you. I hope to hear what you guys choice to do.


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