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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:27 pm 
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Long story short...I was addicted to vicodin, suboxone has kept me off of it for almost 3 years now and I have been on suboxone the entire time. When I was at higher dosages, around 18mg, I would sweat like an animal, uncontrollably nod off not being able to keep my eyes open and I would just fall asleep, severe constipation, twitches, memory loss, and soooo much more... I am now down to 2 mg's and am almost completely off, all of my previous symptoms have improved tremendously but I am still uncontrollably nodding off, and it messes me up in school. I am not even able to forcefully and physically hold my eyelids open, I have to fight it sooo hard an put so much energy into fighting it, and I am still usually unsuccessful. It has gotten a lot better with the decreases but I still have it the way I just described. I am unable to socialize with people the way I used to, I forgot how to and I dont remember how I used to go about doing so. The thing bothering me most right now besides the nodding is the memory loss. I am 23 and I cant remember my past, I cant remember when my father was a live which was only about 6 years ago, I cant remember family memories, friendships I have had, people I have met and so on. I only remember the events with great impact on my life. I feel my memory has gotten better and I am remembering more little by little with the decreases. But every since I hit about 4mg's I dont see any more improvement. Has anyone experienced this? Do you think I will get all of my memory back? It is such a horrible horrible feeling, I feel lost, as if I were just dropped off here out of nowhere. Its scary...


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:01 pm 
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Get your thyroid levels checked, stat.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:40 pm 
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I think you should look at your addiction more then anything


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:57 pm 
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I too have been on wellbutrin in the past. It is a great drug and works well, so I am not opposed to it. But when I was on it I could not remember shit!!! I mean simple things, couldn't finish sentences or think of common words. As far as the drowsiness maybe it is the combo of the two. I agree with the other posters, other than constipation I think you need to talk to your doctor about other causes and not blame the suboxone. By the way, congratulations on your 3 years of sobriety. That is quite an accomplishment!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:14 pm 
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Well unfortunately I'm afraid that only you can make the decision about what to do here. I'm 24 and I have had to go through some of the same side effects as you and it can be aweful in class sometimes trying to stay awake. The side effects have never been horrible though and in time they have pretty much all gone away. One thing that helped me a great deal was learning to take Suboxone the same way everyday. When I first started treatment my doctor didn't really give me instructions on how to take it. After learning to take the medication EXACTLY the same way every day I no longer struggle with the drowsiness. Before coming across this website I took the medication very quickly usually in the morning before class and usually didn't even have time for the tablet to fully dissolve and then within a couple minutes I'd brush my teeth before I ran out of the house. The few times I didn't have much going on in the morning I would leave the medication in longer or get to reading and kind of forget how long I'd had the pill in my mouth. The point is when that happened I could tell I ended up getting more drowsy later in the day. Finally I put two and two together and after a couple weeks of taking the medication EXACTLY the same way I don't get drowsy anymore than a normal person seems to, basically I don't have to hold my eyes open with toothpicks in class anymore. I also started taking Zyban several months ago to stop smoking and after being on it awhile it really had a fairly profound antidepressant effect. It didn't really make me feel "better" but it did help me from not feeling so bad and anti social. That's another thing you could think about, that is talk with your doctor about if you're feeling depressed/anti social. I was almost to the point where talking to someone else didn't do anything for me I was just indifferent to pretty much everything.

Anywho I've decided that for myself at least I will continue taking the Suboxone as long as I can afford it and it doesn't start having any severe side effects. I've learned my lesson about trying to stay clean without Suboxone I could make it a few-several months at a time but I had to go to meetings EVERY DAY. I basically ended up spending so much time trying to not get high everything else in my life became secondary. It would be wonderful if I wasn't an addict but I am and after some relapsing I know it is completely insane for me to think I can stay clean without a 12 step program or medication assisted recovery. Hang in there and I hope you're able to figure out what you need to do. I hope more than anything though that you're able to stay clean.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:15 pm 
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Hello,
I'm sorry that you are having all these issues. My question is did you ever tell you doctor about the side effects you were having? The positives must have outwayed the negative because I see that you have been treated for 3 yrs so I'm assuming that you have a doctor and you are not self medicating. I also have this twitch thing that happens when Im on any type of opiate and Ive learned to just deal with it. Do you really think deep down inside that suboxone has ruined your life? Think about the postives that have come from subs, You have 3 years of clean time thats a great accomplishment! And by the way you are ALIVE! Maybe there is an underlying health issue you are having and if that's not the case then maybe suboxone just isn't right for you, your body just doesn't agree with it for some reason, we are all different. I hope in the future things will get better for you and the memory loss will decrease, thanks for posting and good luck.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:33 pm 
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RonnieSr79 wrote:
I think you should look at your addiction more then anything


Well of course, that was my main goal, but I am past that now, it has almost been three years and I am confident I do not need suboxone anymore.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:35 pm 
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Suboxone Sucess wrote:
I too have been on wellbutrin in the past. It is a great drug and works well, so I am not opposed to it. But when I was on it I could not remember shit!!! I mean simple things, couldn't finish sentences or think of common words. As far as the drowsiness maybe it is the combo of the two. I agree with the other posters, other than constipation I think you need to talk to your doctor about other causes and not blame the suboxone. By the way, congratulations on your 3 years of sobriety. That is quite an accomplishment!


Thank you. In regards to not blaming the suboxone, all of these symptoms came about right after I started taking it, and they all started to get better with each decrease.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:38 pm 
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ape0567 wrote:
Hello,
I'm sorry that you are having all these issues. My question is did you ever tell you doctor about the side effects you were having? The positives must have outwayed the negative because I see that you have been treated for 3 yrs so I'm assuming that you have a doctor and you are not self medicating. I also have this twitch thing that happens when Im on any type of opiate and Ive learned to just deal with it. Do you really think deep down inside that suboxone has ruined your life? Think about the postives that have come from subs, You have 3 years of clean time thats a great accomplishment! And by the way you are ALIVE! Maybe there is an underlying health issue you are having and if that's not the case then maybe suboxone just isn't right for you, your body just doesn't agree with it for some reason, we are all different. I hope in the future things will get better for you and the memory loss will decrease, thanks for posting and good luck.


I mean the suboxone has kept me clean but simply put, I want my memories back, thats all. I told my doctor and he agrees its from the suboxone. Theres not much he can do besides help guide me on coming off of it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:15 pm 
Well, it's unfortunate that with your particular body chemistry, Suboxone may have caused you some rather negative side-effects. However, I am posting this to let anyone new to this forum know that effects like this are not that common to Suboxone users. Most people seem to be able to use Sub, while having some minor issues such as constipation and increased sweating, without major discomfort. What I'd like to know is, anywhere during that 3-year period, did you try to taper off of the Suboxone and attempt a 12-step based or other alternative-based recovery? It seems to me if the Sub was ruining my life, I would go off of it. I mean, I guess the opiate you were originally addicted to must have been "ruining your life" because you started Sub in the first place. Hell, these days, if any substance is "ruining my life," I get the hell away from it!" And that's exactly what I recommend that you do. In any case, just decide to do something and stop crying and feeling sorry for yourself. Sorry if that's harsh, but that's exactly what you'd hear at the meetings I go to. Sometimes as addicts we need to hear the truth. Good luck.


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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 1:45 pm 
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I have posted a similar response previously, but I will say this again as it merits serious consideration. After some years of opiate addiction and more years of relatively low doses of Suboxone, my life is ruined. I am a shell of my former self. I have no drowsiness issues, but I do not react appropriately or quickly to issues in life. It is like I am in a constant haze. I feel that I have permanent brain damage. I have lost my career, my house, my money, my friends... almost my family. No one really speaks to me any more except my mom, and she called me, "the biggest disappointment of her entire life." Ouch. I have been job hunting for a year, but my references and thin and no longer unsubstantiated. My personal advice - don't even START suboxone. Just detox and be done with it, then move on with your life. Don't end up a former executive and now nearly homeless and friendless. Yes, it can happen. This shit is poison, and it keeps you just as high or higher than you were before. The detox from Sub is almost endless and I am not sure that my mind will ever fully heal.


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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 2:20 pm 
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This response is to the last poster. Why didn't you just get off of suboxone before it "ruined your life"? Did you go to a therapist? Did you speak to your dr? Did you do anything proactive to halt the downward spiral of your life? I'm an addict, you are too if you were on sub for that reason, I'm responsible for my actions, you are responsible for yours. Every person can make their life better. It takes work and want to. If nothing else you could always go back to your DOC, evidently that wasn't as bad as sub for you. Anyhow, good luck. Sub has given ME my life back. Are there side effects? Yes, but death and ruin aren't on the list, and they were definitely on the list of my doc.


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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 5:00 pm 
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joto815 wrote:
My personal advice - don't even START suboxone. Just detox and be done with it, then move on with your life.


Ah yes, if only it were that simple. As I have said a million and one times, detoxing is the easy part, that's why most people do exactly that dozens of times (of course this implies ultimate relapse, as is the cycle of substance use disorders not in remission) before they either go the medication-assisted therapy route or another active lifestyle change to change their lives and personality.

joto815 wrote:
Don't end up a former executive and now nearly homeless and friendless.


Not my experience, my journey is the polar opposite as I went from a street junkie with no one speaking to me and assuming I was dead to a successful business owner who gained back all the relationships worth gaining back as well as developing some I really cherish.

joto815 wrote:
This shit is poison


This 'shit' has one of the most reasonable safety profiles I can think of.

joto815 wrote:
and it keeps you just as high or higher than you were before.


If this was the case for YOU, you made the right choice in coming off. This is not a universal experience, however. If the vast majority of people on the medication were polled and had to describe how buprenorphine made them 'feel,' the answers would to a large degree be 'stable' and/or 'normal.'

joto815 wrote:
The detox from Sub is almost endless


Buprenorphine has a longer half-life than other opioids so the withdrawal starts a bit later and is certainly more protracted but not quite as extreme.

Withdrawal from all opioids after years of physical and psychological dependence comes with a long period of post-acute withdrawal, this isn't a phenomenon related only to buprenorphine.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:31 pm 
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You're right, Rule, it IS hate speech. And I removed it just for you. I could say a lot more, and I did. As a matter of fact I had a whole paragraph written. But it doesn't matter. Have a great day.


Last edited by Debbierdmn0810 on Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:30 am 
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Debbierdmn0810,

Please do not come into our forum saying things you have no facts to back up. No studies? Just about every drug is studied for years before going on the market. How do you know there hasn't been any studies?

What you are posting here is very dangerous and could lead to an overdose or death for a new member. This is a pro Suboxone forum and we have years of experience with it. You have your experience only. Read more of our archives to see what I'm referring to. It's not that I doubt what happened in your life. It just affects people differently. If you want your loved on Vicodin and not Suboxone, that is the most outrageous statement I've read in a long time. Once his liver goes out, then what?

Suboxone has been a miracle drug for most all of us. I'm not even sure I'd still be alive if I didn't get on it in time. Quitting Hydrocodone was not an option. We've all tried dozens of times and failed. That is precisely why we took Suboxone.

Please go easy with the hate speech. It is dangerous to others. And maybe start your post with "IMO" instead of stating it is a fact. It may be a fact for you, not for everyone.

Don't take this the wrong way, your opinion is valued as long as you don't bash Suboxone with unproven facts. Read the rules of the forum one the home page.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:37 am 
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My main issue with suboxone, it not the drug itself. It's major harm reduction, to switch to suboxone than it is to continue with on with a lifestyle that goes along with addiction to other opiates/opiods, whether diverted pharmaceutical narcotics, or heroin.

My main issue is doctors who do things like put somebody on a 10 vicodin or so per day habit, on 8, 16, or even 24 mgs a day! Wtf are they thinking? Even though its a partial agonist, the shit is still 40x as strong as morphine when it comes to binding to opiate receptors. 1-2 mgs a day would often be enough for such cases, whether to start a short term detox, or long term maintenance. Maybe it's ignorance, but I think in most cases, they want to create a new steady customer, so they put them on an overkill dose to ensure they'll be coming back for awhile. I've even heard moderate to heavy heroin users say 2 mg was enough to keep them "straight", when they were able to obtain some subs off the streets.

And its not cheap for most people who don't get them from the black market (which is ironically often cheaper, since there isn't a huge demand compared to full agonist narcotics, and there isn't a doctor/clinic to pay for office visits to obtain the script), the doctor visits, insurance copays - if they are fortunate to be covered at all for suboxone - and have them. It's really a ripoff, it doesn't cost much to make, and although there are exceptions because of some limited programs for those below poverty line, for all practical purposes, it is inaccessible to the majority of the poor in most cases, so they usually get chained to a methadone clinic instead, which seems criminal, that they are generally denied the suboxone option, because of economics and greed.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:41 pm 
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First I would like to say that my understanding of a forum is to get others experiences, good and bad. This means that if someone that had an awful experience should have just as much right to post their feelings as someone that has positive! Secondly, there are many people that can say this medicine saved their life and that is great; however, there are many cases that are not quite a happy ending. My fiancé was on Suboxone for 3 years and slowly weaned down to the lowest dose possible; however, I noticed over the last year that he was becoming very numb to feeling and emotions and actually became a bit scary so after many conversations he decided to get off the medicine completely. At first it was great, it seemed like I had the man I fell in love with once again; however, a few months after being off he became very paranoid, delusional and in lamest terms lost his mind! It has been seven months now and my fiance has been unable to work, take care of his son, or perform simple daily tasks, he no longer functions day to day.
Pro-Suboxone people love to jump in and say well this is probably a pre-existing condition that was masked and I am telling them now this is not the case!! He was highly intelligent, motivated, and loving plus there is absolutely no family history of psychotic disorders. So yes there is anger in the suboxone community when your life is ruined because of a medical decision. All studies for this drug is for a short-term treatment so my question is why and who decided to make this a maintenance drug without proper studies on the effects. I know have to take care of a 34 year old man as if he is one of my children and I am on forums like this to compare my story with others that have been unlucky to have negative effects. For those of you who do not want to hear about these negative remarks, I say to you move on to another thread! I want answers and help with my problem not judgments from those of you that refuse to except that there is a possibility that Long Term use could be destroying some patients live forever!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:32 pm 
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Hey Christina,
What answers are you looking for?
I didnt read a question in your remarks....


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:14 am 
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Millions of scripts written, and no objective findings of 'memory loss'. On the other hand, there are plenty of things that we know lead to the sense of memory loss, including a lack of stimulating mental activity. The one thing buprenorphine does to memory? It gives people something to blame when they start thinking they can't remember as well. If you truly think I'm wrong, I encourage you to go to the FDA web site and report your condition-- but I encourage you to have neuropsych testing first, or they'll ignore it quicker than I am here.

Again, if you truly think you have something as serious as memory loss, see a neuropsych doc. Not an MRI or CT scan---- a neuropsych eval, where they test everything from memory to reaction time to knowledge base. The tests will easily show exactly what your memory is like, and what part of your brain is a problem. After doing that, I'd be happy to help you interpret the results-- but without that, it's just a subjective symptom looking for something to blame.

Send me an IM after the test-- I'm serious. Heck, if I thought my brain wasn't working, I'd spend the $300 on a workup.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:23 pm 
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I would just like to remind our forum members that they are welcome to reply to any of these posts with their opinion, suggestions, or observations, as long as they are following the rules of the forum. Also, it's important for members to understand that Dr. Junig, the founder of the forum, has paid for this forum to be up and running for sub users. It used to be that his purpose for this forum was to help sub patients and to be a voice of positive information about sub, because there was so much misinformation around. The rules have loosened up in terms of what posters can say without evidence to back it up, but this forum doesn't exist to give people rights to post here.

Christinac, we have many people around here who worked very hard to get off suboxone. I have never heard anyone say that they feel like they're getting worse and worse AFTER they have detoxed off sub!! There are people who go through a tough withdrawal and feel really crappy for the first couple of weeks. Members have also talked about going through PAWS for a few weeks or months. PAWS is from the combination of whatever opiates an addict has taken since their addiction started. It's not specific to suboxone. But one common theme from people who quit sub is that they are experiencing more emotion. It is NOT typical for a sub quitter to just shut down. I have never heard of or seen any evidence of suboxone ruining a person for life.

You say that it's impossible that your fiance is having a problem with mental illness, so it has to be the sub that ruined his life. Although you are correct that mental illness usually pops up earlier in an adult's life, there is evidence of late onset mental illness that can wreak havoc on a person's well-being. Here is an article I found on Bipolar Disorder: http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc. ... =8860&cn=4

If you scroll down you will find a heading called "Older Adults". I urge you to get your fiance to a psychiatrist so that you can get to the bottom of why he is no longer functional. He may need to be on a different medication.

Amy

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