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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:12 pm 
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Hey all... Some of you may know I have a lower back injury that I have had for seven years or so.... I generally just deal with it and I'm usually okay. If I do a lot of work around the house and with the kids by the end of the day my lower back aches pretty good. Generally, Aleve or Tylenol helps with the pain. There are days that are worse than others too....
This Saturday out of the middle of nowhere I began feeling shock feelings in my lower back. The pain was so bad I was walking around crouched over cringing for the next bolt of pain to go down my back.... I layed down on my couch most of the day Sunday. I took 1600mg Ibuprofen on accident not realizing the pills were 200mg a piece... I also tried Aleve in the evening..neither medication did anything for this pain. I have had this happen in the past but not like this.

I woke up this morning and felt decent but felt the tension in my back...I noticed while driving to work the bumps in the road especially on the highway going over over-passes my back was getting irritated quickly. I went to work and within one hour of sitting I couldn't take the pain and the shocks of pain were more frequent. Not sure what to do and I'm beginning to get concerned now I called my Sub doctor to ask his opinion. He actually just returned back from out of town which was perfect. He requested for me to come into his office... He prescribed me an additional 8mg of Suboxone and advised me to take 4mg of Suboxone four times a day...and also advised me to see an orthopedic ASAP to get another MRI...

On my way home to rest I actually took another 8mg dose of Suboxone to hopefully break through the pain. The cool thing is here by the time I got home and got out of my car I noticed I wasn't cringing anymore while walking. Suboxone worked!! It didn't take away the pain but I would say it nearly cut the pain in half. I was able to deal with the pain which was just incredible. I ended up resting the remainder of the day.... I did take another 4mg around 5PM and this again helped while taking care of the kids. I must say I'm amazed... So tomorrow I'm going to start taking 4mg in the AM and so on throughout the day....I'm also going to find an orthopedist in my plan tomorrow and get in ASAP.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Buprenorphine in Suboxone has relieved my pain symptoms by 50%. Man, and what a great doctor I have that understands Suboxone. What a miracle medication this truly is.

SuperBuper


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:50 pm 
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Gosh, I'm sorry to hear about your back flaring up like that. But I'm happy that the suboxone at least made it more tolerable. That's how it is with my pain. It doesn't erase it or anything, but it keeps me from sobbing in pain which I would be doing otherwise. I still have good and bad days. But without the sub, I can only imagine how bad it would be!

Let us know what the ortho says about your back. Feel better!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:10 pm 
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Sorry to hear your back flared up its never funn thats forsure. I def have had my fair share of flare ups. i have a bad knee injury some days i cant even put my weight on it other days i have no pain at all. But im also on suboxone for pain mang. i take 16mgs a day 24 if needed on really bad days. anyways on those really bad days the suboxone makes it a ok day. on ok days sub makes it a great day. this med has def saved my life. its a shit load better then takeing 200mgs of oxy a day.

Like ive said b4 this is what i love about suboxone. you can take this medication and acutally get real pain rel. with out getting high what better then that??????????????


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 Post subject: Ready for this.....
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:35 pm 
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So, I woke up this AM and all seemed okay..I sat down to login to work and thirty minutes later I began to have the shock feelings in my lower back. I took my Suboxone as prescribed and this time the pain was too strong for Suboxone to handle. I took the day off from work to relax and take it easy... I also made an appointment with my orthopedic doctor... I don't know this doctor very well but I went to him by referral years ago... Here's the story..

I told the doctor I'm currently taking Suboxone and Lexapro.... He just simply said okay....Moved on rapidly treating me gave me two cortisone shots in my lower back.. The doctor sends me off with four scripts... Ultracet (Tramadol and Tylenol), Flexeril, Relafen, and four weeks of therapy.

I searched Ultracet on the internet and quickly found out it was Tramadol and Tylenol mixed... As we know Tramadol is an opiate derived from codeine if I'm not mistaking. So, I called my Sub doctor. He then told me my worries are not Tramadol and Suboxone as much as Tramadol and Lexapro...For those that don't know already I've been taking Lexapro for quite some time. Tramadol also produces Serotonin like Lexapro - combining the two together could cause Serotonin syndrome.

I called back the Orthopedic Doctor....I was told they will call me back... Twenty minutes later they called me back to tell me they changed my script from Tramadol to Darvocet. They told me they advised the pharmacy. Well that's a little late as I already have the scripts.

Darvocet if I'm not mistaking is a synthetic opiate.....Suboxone will block both Tramadol and Darvocet. Now my question is if I take Darvocet to help with the pain will precipitated withdrawal occur if I take Suboxone after Darvocet??? I know I can take another opiate after Suboxone but not visa versa. I also know that Suboxone will block other opiates some of the Darvocet may still assist with pain...or maybe not.

Anyways, I'm at the point where I'm not taking the Tramadol. I did take Flexeril for the muscle spasms and took Relafin the anti-inflammatory. I have yet to even bother picking up the Darvocet as I'm faily comfortable with pain right now even sitting down.

I'm completely blown away here.....We shall see how the pain is later. I'm not sure if I should pick up the Darvocet or not. I also know that Flexeril is habit forming but I'm not too concerned about it....I don't care for anything that makes you feel drowsy.

Hope to see some replies soon... SuperBuper


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 Post subject: Hey Super
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:52 pm 
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I had my leg wrenched betwen my bed and my electric motor scooter chair which is like a car. This happened Sunday. Having so many surgeries on that leg and a stent in it. The ambulance took me directly to the E>R I was wheeled in Priority case. They bring me up on the computer. My records are all there. All my drs, surgeons, admissions, primary care doctor are all in the same hospital and all my in fo comes up right away, even my sub dr. is there,

The dr. that saw me in the ER(and the nurse ) said they knew what suboxone was and they saw it in my records.


When I left the e.r I has a scropt for Tramadol 22mg. in my hand with no instructions on what it does with subs.

I don't get it. Another thing I noticed was that Tramadol does not have the warnng label they put on the vial saying controlled substance. but yet it contains opiates?

I'm confused and in pain. They claim I almosr shattered my bones. I must admit it is swollen & bruised and it hurts. Should I get the script filled. I'm hurting.


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 Post subject: Sorry
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:53 pm 
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With the Tramadol I meant 200 mg. My sub dosage is 8mg a.m. and 12mg p.m.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:20 pm 
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If you take the opiate (Darvocet) for your pain, it frankly depends on how long you're on it as to whether you'll need to re-induce or not. If you only take it for up to several days, you can go back on the suboxone after 12 hours or so. This is what my doc said to do after I needed pain meds following a medical procedure.

I know you probably don't want to have to take the Darvocet. I wouldn't either. But if you get to where your pain is excruciating, then I'd say take the pain meds. You don't need to suffer needlessly. I have no idea if they'll give you pain relief since you have sub in your system though. Did he give you a "normal" dose like he would give an opiate naive person or did he give you a much higher dose to try to get past the suboxone?

Play it by ear and listen to what your body is saying. If the Darvocet doesn't address your pain enough, you do have another option. You can continue to take very low doses of sub along with the darvocet. Like 1-2 mg only. That should keep you out of withdrawals and help the darvocet to treat your pain. Did you ever read the NIH paper on treating acute pain in sub/methadone patients? It's under the links section. I believe I made it a sticky so it should be right on top.

Please let us know how you're doing.

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 Post subject: Pain not so bad now..
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:25 pm 
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Hey there everyone. ......My back pain really isn't that bad now since the cortisone shots, Flexeril, and Relafin. I haven't had one of those jolts of pain either.... BUT I went ahead and picked up the Darvocet 100W/APAP 650 Tabs anyways. I did take two of them instead as one of them and it did absolutely nothing for the minimal pain I had... I just had to try it... With that said, just like a child, I turned over the Tramdol and Darvocet to my wife... I'm going to stick with the Subs, Flexeril, and Relafin. Hopefully this is just a flare up and will go by.

I didn't take my Sub after the Darvocet in fear of precipitated withdrawal... Probably being silly but I'm not taking any chances.. Tomorrow morning I will dose on Sub...I think I'm going to find another Ortho Doctor too. My Suboxone doctor whom is a Psychiatrist has been the most helpful of all my doctors...

Bottom line is this stinks as my back seems to be getting worse and I really don't want surgery...One day at a time, I'll keep you all posted.

SuperBuper


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:47 pm 
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It doesn't at all surprise me that Darvocet didn't do anything to address your pain. Darvocet is actually a very weak pain medication. In fact, in several studies Darvocet was been shown to have no better effect on pain than over-the-counter medications. In fact, about two years ago a statement came out that "The pain medications Darvon and Darvocet should be pulled off the market, according to a recommendation by a panel of medical experts assembled by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA)." There were several reasons for this but one of them was its lack of efficacy. At least it has a lower probability of addiction and is a schedule IV medication (one of few opiate pain medications that are schedule VI). The thing is, even for someone who is naive to opiates and not taking Suboxone, Darvocet doesn't work very well as a painkiller. For someone who has a higher opiate tolerance from being on Suboxone and/or has taken Suboxone within the past 7 days or so, it is very unlikely to have much if any effect. Tramadol may not work much better for you. In fact, pretty much anytime someone is on Suboxone, the best shot they have at getting good pain relief is with high doses of very potent narcotics. Darvocet is unlikely to do much of anything for you - as you have already found out.

Hope you find something that works better.


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 Post subject: Pain is under control!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:06 pm 
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Hey Don, thanks for the info. My back pain is really minimal at this point and I'm grateful. I'm dosing frequently on Suboxone (Total of 16mg for the day), and my anti-inflammatory medication. I have taken three Flexeril at this point too. From where I was at Monday morning to where I'm at today with pain it's a complete turnaround. Seems like the combination I'm using is working well.

Hopefully when the Cortisone wears off I will be okay. This is the first flare up I have ever had since I injured my back in 2004.

Anyways, thanks for the info, I do appreciate it.

SuperBuper


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:42 am 
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Great to hear that you're feeling better. How weird is this though? I just talked about how useless this medication is and how groups have wanted it pulled from the market for years. What's weird about that? Well, just today the FDA announced that they indeed are finally going to pull it off the market!!!! LOL Who knew? Too funny.


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 Post subject: Wow!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:59 pm 
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Donh - That is pretty wild.... My pharmacy actually called me on my cell phone advising me that it has been pulled off the shelf. They mentioned something about Darvocet causing heart issues if taken long term. They didn't get into details. I haven't taken anymore of it we are going to dispose of it properly...

SuperBuper


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:41 am 
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Superbuper i have a lot of the prob you have with my back. I've had it for about ten years. I got a mri in 2001 that showed a hearneated disk and two bulging discs. Im a meat cutter. My symptoms have never been as good as they have since i've been on subox. I've been on lorcet oc s methadone and perco s. I don't know if im getting healed or what but. I know if i sleep or sit to long i can get serious pain. And if i lift to much at work i can be screwed. But all in all sub is the best i've taken for pain


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 Post subject: Back Issues
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:24 pm 
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Wade - Yah, seems like lots of people are in the same boat with their backs. It's nice to hear how well Suboxone has helped manage your pain. Have you ever had back surgery?

I'm screwed at this point with my new Suboxone script. I posted in another section "Damn Insurer Stories and Questions" the thread is called "Coventry not covering my script". I'm back on my normal dose of Suboxone 8MG a day due to insurance issues. So, with that said it's not doing a whole lot for pain at this time. Luckily my back is doing much better now. Hopefully I can get this insurance stuff worked out before I have more back issues.

I'm heading to Disney World with my family tomorrow. So if you don't hear from me you know why. I'll be heading back Sunday afternoon.

SuperBuper


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:43 pm 
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No surgery. I've been told to by a doctor but im glad i didn't. And i swear the tabs and lorcets i used to take caused inflamation on my back and kept me layed up a lot (trash for pain if you ask me).man i swear n my case the more im on my feet doing steady work (no lifting or bending much )the better i feel. I don't know if its the same with you. Ya i saw they have a full life size replica of radiater springs off cars at the california disney land. I raise my four year old boy by myself and he would flat out love that (me too) .have a great time and if i could help i would with the pain,also the more i sit and sleep the worse i can get with the siatica and lower back and leg pain. You probably already no those tricks. Im in southern indiana how about you guys and what time is it there. Its eight pm here now.


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 Post subject: Good ol' back pain
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:20 pm 
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Wade - Hey there...Sorry for the delay... got back from Disney World on Sunday night and I have been slammed with work since... First time I'm able to get to the forum.

I actually live in South Florida not California.... We went to Disney World in Orlando. It's our family tradition the day after Thanksgiving. The park is all decked out for XMAS and it's awesome!! I have two boys 6 and 2 1/2 and a wonderful wife that has supported me the whole way through. We have been together almost 20 years.

That's awesome how well you're doing and you love your son the way you do. I can feel your love in your messages. Keep up the good work my friend.

I fully agree sitting down is the worst that's because you're applying pressure on the nerve. When my back is hurting people always tell me to sit down since I'm standing a lot. They are shocked when I tell them I feel better standing.

You know I figure when people are on pain pills for their back pain your masking the pain. I would think since you're masking the pain you're going to exert yourself more causing more damage.. Who knows that's my assumption.

Nice hearing from you wade....talk to you soon.

SuperBuper


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 Post subject: what about nueotrin
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 12:49 pm 
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I am prescribed 20 mg a day suboxone for both maintenance and pain. I have a lower back nerve thing going on and work a rather physical job that really causes me alot of pain . the subs do help alot with the pain ,and although they dont eradicate it .It does make life tolerable. My question is recently i was asked if I wanted to try nueotrin, and well this drug is new to me .I did some research on it and well now i am wondering if maybe anyone here has a little personal experiance with it . also what is the typical dose for pain when it comes to suboxone ?


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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 1:57 pm 
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Neurontin is used specifically for nerve pain and it helps a lot of people. I used to take it as a mood stabilizer as well as for my fibro pain. That was quite awhile ago, but I never had any problems with it - no side effects or problems discontinuing it.

As for typical pain doses for sub, there really isn't any. Some people find pain relief at lowers, others, higher. I take it for pain and am prescribed 8 mg, 2-3 times per day. I usually just take 2 though, only 3 on a really bad day.

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:26 pm 
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thanks hatmaker, so your saying that me being prscribed the 20mg for the pain /addiction is about normal then and the nueotrin just might help my nerve pain? I will go ahead and have it filled then .If I can find that perfect combination of things that makes me feel my best then i must try everything they offer.thank you for your input.I really like this forum,very informative .I was very much in the dark before , and recovery is a very complicated thing . alot of angles to it .easy to get lost while being in the dark.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:44 pm 
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i do have a new question though .what is the average dose of suboxone for chronic pain and addiction on a daily basis and what is the average dosing schedule


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