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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:32 pm 
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I really need a good opinion right now. Please respond, if even shortly....

Let me start with some quick details and then get to the pressing issue... i must decide today/tomorrow.

I am on subutex. I take a very small dose of 1mg or less. I was on oxycodone and hydrocone, with doses of 30 mg of one or the other per day tops.... really.

Opiates scrare me very badly. I've been to the ER for what i thought were OD symptoms like over 10 times this year, and my vitals are always fine... but i swear that i get so scared to go to sleep because me breathing is so shallow...

anyway i cant quit the opiates becaue they are so damn useful. I finally found a doctor to prescribe the subutex.... and i told her i have pain.....her idea was to start me on OPANA which is oxymorphone instead. I tried it, and read online that up the nose is the only practical way to take it... (4 times stronger)... to me this drug was like bushing against a GIANT. However it made me feel on the "other side" of bad if you know what i mean... it's later that i scares me, because it last 12 hrs and i dont like long half life...

I was scared so bad by the feeling that i threw my expensive prescription down the toilet and wrote a note on my arm in permanent ink to stay away from this. It is profoundly strong... for pain, and somewhat euphoric. The main differnece was that my sex life was back (subutex kills it) and it was back it full swing if you know what i mean.... totally enhancing.

So i go get another script and take it and dont sleep the entire night becuase it get scared again. BACK AND FORTH.. ...

So basically here is where i am... I have an appointment with the doc today, and she'll just have the nurses see me(she isnt even there today) and then she'll write a script for OPANA or subutex if i choose. She will not prescirbe oxycodone or hydrocodone which is really what i need, but she will prescribe something much stronger then oxycodone, which is too strong... it doesnt make any sense to me.

Does anyone have experience with this drug.... and could you tell me anything about it. My largest problem with opiates is the DETACHMENT i feel.... i work alone, and work for hours/ or more like days at a time. I'll feel great on the opiate and then BAM... i feel cold, scared, detached, and mostly detached. With the subutex I dont feel so detached... It really help me maintain... and i think provides anti depressive, and maybe even treats my ADD... i just feel a hint of morphine sometimes and that seems like enough... I"M RAMBLINg. but i'm trying to get to the point

I DONT KNOW IF I SHOULD TAKE THE OPANA ( really helps with sex life, and make me pain free) or go on with subutex, which drains sex life, makes me cold, and sleepy but treats the opiate feeling sort of.... but with the OPANA and taking it up the nose, i feel much more isolated in addiction type thinking... I hate it. the subutex this is not the case...

I think i know the answer here, but i'm swinging back and forth, and its hard to turn down an option to have the OPANA. but it dominates my thoughts when i use it, and scares me. its a very physical drug.... like i feel like i'm on a heavy narcotic with it... eyes get glassed over, and my sig. other says i smell differnet. I feel like it cooks me from the inside...

none of this with subutex, but the sex life sucks with it... i feel more isolated and morphine like (sort of) while the opana makes me feel physically better but not mentally....

sorry to just dump on here i could use some advice.... like "hey opana worked for me, just wait a while and take as prescribed" or "opana is evil, and you'll die of overdose"... or "sounds like addiction so just stick to subutex"...

anything please? :( :shock: :? :cry: :?:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:44 pm 
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auspicious wrote:
I really need a good opinion right now. Please respond, if even shortly....

Let me start with some quick details and then get to the pressing issue... i must decide today/tomorrow.

I am on subutex. I take a very small dose of 1mg or less. I was on oxycodone and hydrocone, with doses of 30 mg of one or the other per day tops.... really.

Opiates scrare me very badly. I've been to the ER for what i thought were OD symptoms like over 10 times this year, and my vitals are always fine... but i swear that i get so scared to go to sleep because me breathing is so shallow...

anyway i cant quit the opiates becaue they are so damn useful. I finally found a doctor to prescribe the subutex.... and i told her i have pain.....her idea was to start me on OPANA which is oxymorphone instead. I tried it, and read online that up the nose is the only practical way to take it... (4 times stronger)... to me this drug was like bushing against a GIANT. However it made me feel on the "other side" of bad if you know what i mean... it's later that i scares me, because it last 12 hrs and i dont like long half life...

I was scared so bad by the feeling that i threw my expensive prescription down the toilet and wrote a note on my arm in permanent ink to stay away from this. It is profoundly strong... for pain, and somewhat euphoric. The main differnece was that my sex life was back (subutex kills it) and it was back it full swing if you know what i mean.... totally enhancing.

So i go get another script and take it and dont sleep the entire night becuase it get scared again. BACK AND FORTH.. ...

So basically here is where i am... I have an appointment with the doc today, and she'll just have the nurses see me(she isnt even there today) and then she'll write a script for OPANA or subutex if i choose. She will not prescirbe oxycodone or hydrocodone which is really what i need, but she will prescribe something much stronger then oxycodone, which is too strong... it doesnt make any sense to me.

Does anyone have experience with this drug.... and could you tell me anything about it. My largest problem with opiates is the DETACHMENT i feel.... i work alone, and work for hours/ or more like days at a time. I'll feel great on the opiate and then BAM... i feel cold, scared, detached, and mostly detached. With the subutex I dont feel so detached... It really help me maintain... and i think provides anti depressive, and maybe even treats my ADD... i just feel a hint of morphine sometimes and that seems like enough... I"M RAMBLINg. but i'm trying to get to the point

I DONT KNOW IF I SHOULD TAKE THE OPANA ( really helps with sex life, and make me pain free) or go on with subutex, which drains sex life, makes me cold, and sleepy but treats the opiate feeling sort of.... but with the OPANA and taking it up the nose, i feel much more isolated in addiction type thinking... I hate it. the subutex this is not the case...

I think i know the answer here, but i'm swinging back and forth, and its hard to turn down an option to have the OPANA. but it dominates my thoughts when i use it, and scares me. its a very physical drug.... like i feel like i'm on a heavy narcotic with it... eyes get glassed over, and my sig. other says i smell differnet. I feel like it cooks me from the inside...

none of this with subutex, but the sex life sucks with it... i feel more isolated and morphine like (sort of) while the opana makes me feel physically better but not mentally....

sorry to just dump on here i could use some advice.... like "hey opana worked for me, just wait a while and take as prescribed" or "opana is evil, and you'll die of overdose"... or "sounds like addiction so just stick to subutex"...

anything please? :( :shock: :? :cry: :?:


HI AUSPICIOUS AND WELCOME TO THE FORUM. I AM NEW HERE, BUT HAVE BEEN READING THE POSTS FOR A LONG TIME.
GOSH...YOUR SITUATION SOUNDS LIKE A HARD ONE. MAY I ASK ARE YOU ADDICTED TO THE OPANA? I COMPLETELY RELATE TO BEING AFRAID TO GO TO SLEEP...SOMETIMES I FIGHT GOING TO SLEEP BECAUSE I AM AFRAID I WILL NOT WAKE UP! I WONDER WHY YOUR DOCTOR WON'T GIVE YOU THE HYDROCODONE SINCE IT IS NOT AS STRONG. I AM A NURSE, BUT SURELY NO DOCTOR, AND IT HAS BEEN A LONG TIME SINCE I WORKED IN HOSPITAL, SO I AM NOT UP ON SOME OF THESE DRUGS. I LEARNED ABOUT OPANA WHEN I READ ROMEO'S THREAD AND IT NEARLY KILLED HIM..YOU MIGHT WANT TO READ IT ... IT IS CALLED RELAPSED. I KNOW I HAVEN'T ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION BUT I THINK IF IT WERE ME I WOULD GO WITH THE SUB. IF SUB. CAN HELP YOUR PAIN ENOUGH THEN YOU WON'T BE AFRAID OF H OW YOU FEEL...ETC...SORRY I DON'T KNOW MORE..HOPE THIS HELPS A LITTLE............JUDY


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:50 pm 
I don't even have all the facts, but if the choices are Subutex or Opana:

My advice would be to stick with Subutex! Though I'm not sure what your pain issues are, it sounds to me like you're primarially interested in Opana (or Oxycodone/Hydrocodone for that matter) for the euphoria/detachment/lowered inhibitions, which makes total sense to me as an addict. Believe me, when I was in active addiction all I wanted was to be euphoric, detached and uninhibited. The problem is that with full agonists such as Opana, it is all but impossible to maintain these in a constant state for any real length of time; I think you've already discovered that otherwise you likely would have never researched or been presented the option of Subutex. You aren't asking for help choosing between Opana or Subutex because your pain wasn't being managed on Subutex and you felt as though you needed the added analgesia of Opana to function normally, so again to me this points to Opana being soley used addictively and not because you really need, need it. I'm not even going to go into the fact that you insufflate your pills because you as well as everyone here knows that is active addiction and if not a sure recipe for disaster, it's certainly inviting it into your life! You feared OD when you were taking 30mg of Hydro or Oxycodone, which is going to be like baby asprin compared to Opana. It doesn't sound to me like full-agonists totally agree with you and much of what you have said jumps out to me screaming "ADDICT! ACTIVE ADDICT!" I mean this in a loving and caring way as I am an addict and most of my life has been spent around addicts in active addiction and now addicts in recovery. So, I think Subutex would be the right move for you, along with altering whatever behaviors and mindsets you have that might not be conducive to healthy living/recovery. Pain itself can't kill you but painkillers themselves can.

-T


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:52 am 
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Hey auspicious. Travispnorton made some excellent points with which I agree. I also wanted to say that Opana was what I was using when I was in active addiction. I also snorted it. And I can tell you, it made a mess of my life! I don't know how much or how many they are willing to prescribe to you, but that shit can be killer powerful! Personally, I think it's a direct route to a dead end. Do not pass GO, do not collect $200. So I guess in short, I, too, would opine that you should stick with subutex. You can address the side effects by finding the lowest possible dose that you need. Good luck to you and keep us posted on how you're doing.

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 Post subject: i sincerely thank you
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:43 pm 
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Yeah.... There's no need for the opana . She pretty much will prescribe as much as I want . It's ridiculus. And I definetley don't need something will strong. What I will do is find a way to burn that bridge so that its not even an option. May sound strange but sometimes I have to take rational thinking and run with it.... Sort of corall myself for.the not so strong times. First I'm just going to say no. And hopefully tell her I don't really
need it. I already tried just not showing up but she charged me fifty bucks. Lol . Pusher.....

The buep works ..... I only take .25 mg at a time so.a script last me like ...months. I'm going to stock up and quit paying for visits. However somtimes like every few weeks I get really lethargic/sick sometimes it lloks like I have jaundis aro und the eyes. I sleep for 2 days. Is this stuff killing my liver? It seems like a cycle.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:57 pm 
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auspicious wrote:
Yeah.... There's no need for the opana . She pretty much will prescribe as much as I want . It's ridiculus. And I definetley don't need something will strong. What I will do is find a way to burn that bridge so that its not even an option. May sound strange but sometimes I have to take rational thinking and run with it.... Sort of corall myself for.the not so strong times. First I'm just going to say no. And hopefully tell her I don't really
need it. I already tried just not showing up but she charged me fifty bucks. Lol . Pusher.....

The buep works ..... I only take .25 mg at a time so.a script last me like ...months. I'm going to stock up and quit paying for visits. However somtimes like every few weeks I get really lethargic/sick sometimes it lloks like I have jaundis aro und the eyes. I sleep for 2 days. Is this stuff killing my liver? It seems like a cycle.




Everyone on here is gonna tell you the same thing..BUPE.. what im gonna tell you is to go with whatever you feel better with, if you do choose the OPANA and it doesnt work out then you could always switch, where the BUPE has such a long half life that it would take days of taking nothing to switch over. Nobody on here can tell you what's best for you, only you can do that and im sure you will in the end make the best choice for you. Choose whichever one has less "side effects" for you and makes you feel the best, if it doesnt work out you can always make the switch, BUPE to OPANA might mean feeling on the crappy side for a few days but it can be done.. GOOD LUCK and I hope you're feeling better soon.

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*Battles are fought everyday, some you win & some you lose..Addiction is a war & every second you're still alive you're winning that war..*


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 Post subject: pain
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:49 pm 
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got the opana... flushed it... in fear of OD as usual.

Then got sick from soemthing seperate, and spent a couple weeks in the hospital again.... (i have chrons/colitis)... and ulcers in my esophogus....

so they hooked me up to a pain button... PCA i think it's called... and that was working well... then they swtiched me to oxycodone and I've got to say the stuff works miracals... I didnt up my dose, and it did start to loose effect though. So i was one 50-60 mg a day for about 3 and 1/2 weeks now.

I ran out, and swtiched back to beup. yesterday after tapering on the oxy. Also using hydroxozine, and sometimes clonodine.... and aleve (not supposed to use NSAIDS though) but i'm still in pain... wont see doctor for a week or two, and she will only prescibe Opana, and not oxy (i dont really get it but that's whats up)....

So i'm in pain, and I've already burnt bridges at the ER.... so to speak...

I read back on these posts and it's strage.... I did end up sort of bruning the bridge with my prescriber because the ER called her and told her I went there for fear of OD. She said I dont seem to be in control... true enough... but that stuff is sooo strong. I was taking about 50mg of oxy each day and it was totally different.

Anyway I wrote her a letter stating my case and i'm waiting to hear back.... maybe I shouldnt have burnt that bridge after all? :? yikes. Thanks for the time spent reading and/or posting. take care.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:59 pm 
ausp-

If I could control other people, this is what I would say:

Pick buprenorphine and stick with it for awhile! Hopefully, awhile will give your head time to realize what a cluster life becomes when going from Subutex----->'how can I get high off Subutex?'------->Oxycodone------->Subutex------->Oxymorphine------->'I can't deal with how strong Oxymorphine is' FLUSH-------->'If only I could get Oxycodone instead of Oxymorphine, that would be the ticket..'-------->Subutex------->Repeat. Pick Subutex and stick with it. Get rid of all other opioids. Get a Suboxone Dr and get rid of yr. Dr. Feelgood.

-Travis


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:26 pm 
Auspicious,

I have read through your posts and the replies, and it seems to me that you have to be truthful with yourself first as to WHY you are getting any of this medication. Obviously you have some real and painful conditions that call for pain relief at times. You have found prescribers for various medications, so I know that you are capable of making a convincing argument to others that you need these pills. What is less clear, is the vacillation between wanting them, getting them, and not wanting them. Getting a doc, and then burning a bridge. Taking a drug, and then fearing that you OD'd. You must admit that you sound 100% like every one of us addicts. Many of us had/have real pain issues we deal with as well and that is what got us started on this road. The problem is, until we were honest with ourselves; willing to admit that our addiction drive our decision making more than our pain ever did, we also vacillated between procuring our drug of choice, taking it, then feeling scared and or guilty, and flushing it, just to do do the cycle all over again.

You're walking around the block again and again, you know that there is a hole in the pavement that you need to avoid, yet you trip in it every time. Then you beat yourself up a while, tell your self you won't do it again (maybe write on your arm with perm marker to remember), and yet when you come to the hole, you go in it again. This is not a process unique to you, this is addiction. The problem with admitting it you ourselves when we also have genuine pain issues is the fear that if we "burn a bridge" as you put it, we will no linger have any access to medication and suffer with nothing to help us in our pain.

Been there, done that, and I am not judging you at all. This is where I am at.

I have been on Suboxone for 4 years now. Recently I experienced one of the Suboxone user's greatest fears; finding ourselves in a medical emergency requiring narcotic pain control and we either cannot get it, get too little or worse yet; no matter how much we get, it does't work because of the level of Suboxone still in our system.

This was not an emergency, but extremely painful nonetheless. I had 2 thrombosed hemmorhoids which need to be lanced. I procrastinated going to the doc, because I had had these lanced and removed before and the initial pain after the local is (for me) excruciating even WITH narcotics. So when I did go, I didn't tell the ER doc about being on Suboxone for obvious reasons. Little did I know that the state of MN now has a controlled substance monitoring system that can pull up any narcotic prescription you have received within the state and the ER docs have access to it. I could feel my face flushing and the heat in my ears when the doctor said, "what about the Suboxone, I see here that you got 45 tablets about 2 weeks ago?" There I was, 4 years AFTER doctor shipping and lying to doctors, thinking that was all behind me, I did the vary thing that got me into trouble with the pills in the first place! I don't remember what I babbled then but later in the appointment, after resigning myself to no narcotic pain control, I apologized and explained that I had been on Suboxone for 4 years, that I used to Dr. Shop and lie for narcotics, and I was afraid that if he knew I was on Suboxone, he would not help me with my (thankfully obvious in this case) need for pain control. I asked him for his advice.

To my surprise, he said that I HAD TO OWN IT. I had to be honest, tell the docs what I was on and why and that I have a need for maybe even greater pain control than "normal" people because of my tolerance to narcotics. Explain my fears and let them be the ones to decide what to do. Sure, there will be some that will react as we feared and give us nothing, or nothing potent enough. But there are others who will appreciate the honesty (like this doc did) and prescribe us what we need. We were willing to see several prescribers to get what we wanted BEFORE the public and personal admission that we had a problem with narcotics, so why would't we be equally willing to be just a diligent to find a doc that will help us afterwards? They do exist.

So, auspicious... maybe I have totally missed the boat on what you do not want to stop using short acting agonist Opiates (regular pain killers). BUT if it is because of few of lack of pain control, then there are solutions for you, solutions that will allow you to sleep without a guilt, or fear of OD. Maybe most importantly, solutions that will allow you to be clear headed and of singleminded about this subject, no longer vacillating between clarity and self deception.

I wish you well and hope that you decide what you need to do and stick with it. If you have a true medical NEED to be on Oxyanything then fine, but do it honestly with a doc that cares about you as a total person with an addiction (or might I say addictive tendencies at lest). That doc you have buy your own admission is a pusher. I had those type to, and though I loved the access to narcs, I never respected them as physicians.

Also, get someone in your life to be accountable to (preferably not family), writing on your arm is a start, but you can always cover it up or ignore it, and skin does shed over time. ;-)


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