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 Post subject: Suboxone Myth or Fact?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:48 am 
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Hey guys I am relatively new to the site and just had a question regarding my dose. My sub doc is pretty horrible and uninformed as she said the only reason she became certified is because a patient of hers needed it. I dont have insurance and the only other sub doc in my town is waaay too expensive for me so I pretty much just rely on her for the script. Thanks to this forum and countless hours of research I have pretty much just formulated my own plan to sobriety. Anyways onto my question. I started out at 2mg and am pretty much stabilized at 1.5 mg a day. I take .5 in the morning and 1mg in the evening. Yes I am aware it is best to only dose once a day and I am working towards that. I also realize the census of people say you should be on at least 4mg as that reaches the ceiling effect. My question is this.. I have read reports that when you take a dose below the ceiling level, not all of your opiate receptors are filled therefore this allows healing and your brain to produce its own endorphins. Is this a myth or is there something to it? Will this make it easier for me to come off of when the time is right as opposed to someone who starts at a higher dose? I have now been sober for 50 days and it has truly change my life. I do not plan on coming off for at least 6 months.. I posted in the introduction section titled "New to Recovery and Forum" which tells a little about myself and usage history. I appreciate all informed responses
Thanks, Ryan


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:31 am 
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Hi Ryan. Unfortunately, I can't really answer your question. But I wanted to welcome you to the forum. I hope you find the kind of support here that I have.
I've heard what you're describing, too, but I honestly don't know if it's true. I have read in the doc's blog (and I hope I have this right) that at low doses like you're on, bupe acts more like a full agonist than the partial agonist that it is. I'm hoping the doc will respond to your question in more detail.

Again, welcome and I'll go check out your intro. We're glad you're here.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:51 am 
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6 Months or More
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Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 10:38 pm
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Hey.....Welcome. I have limited knowledge on those types of specifics regarding receptors, endorphins, ect... I have heard what Hatmaker stated about the lower amounts. I'm sure someone on here will be able to answer your questions. I find it impressive you've done so much research before jumping into something. I've bought houses and started businesses without doing as much research. Good for you. I will say this however; recovery is about change and hard work. I think most wii agree here that suboxone is just one of many parts to sobriety. Some people take thier vitamins but don't eat right or do any cardio. Make sure you have a plan for your life without drugs and your mental well being. And don't have such an agenda for coming off suboxone (6 months). At two months clean take it day to day. Not to be one of those people who say "I have this amount of years clean and you only have this" (I can't stand some of those jackasses with decades of sobriety that think they know all) but I've been at this for a long time and living in the moment always works best for an addict like myself. Best of luck and keep us posted on your progress.
P.S.
Throw those questions at your Dr., make her do some research, it might benefit the next patient needing suboxone.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:51 pm 
Hi Ryan. It sounds like you're trying to "dodge the bullet" in a sense by staying on a very low dose. Maybe doing so will make the tapering easier when the time comes, I'm not sure. One thing i can say though, is that I recently tapered from 12mg/day to 2mg/day because of side effects. The problem is that now I'm below the ceiling effect and so I FEEL my dose when I take it. It's almost (but not quite) like getting high every day. When I was at a higher dose (4mg or above) I was at steady state a didn't feel my dose. So I'm actually considering going back up to 4mg becasue I don't think it's a good idea for an addict like me to take an opiate that I can feel the effects of. For me it's too much like active addiction was.

You didn't say how taking 1.5mg/day was affecting you -- but now I do understand why Dr. J says the ceiling effect is so important. In fact, he recently did a post about this on his blog which you might want to read.
Good luck on your recovery and keep posting.
Lilly


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:55 pm 
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Yeah I definitely have mixed feelings as to what the proper dose is for me.. 1.5 mg has obviously helped keep the cravings away and allowed me to make it 50 days without using, but some days I feel better than others. I try to take my doses at the same time everyday but because of work or other factors I may miss a dose by a few hours here and there. When I say I feel better some days, I mean that I feel as though I have a stable dose in my system and I don t feel my next dose when I take it. Other days I can tell when I need it and so it makes perfect sense when you(Lilly) say it is important to be at the "ceiling level" so I don t feel any opiate effect.. I notice I do feel fatigued some days and I feel kind of out of it. Just zoned out and apathetic, not myself. Would being at the ceiling level help get rid of these side effects? I am very active at least 5-6 days a week, whether it be surfing, playing basketball/tennis, and running so it is hard for me to tell if this is part of the fatigue, but somedays I feel I get tired waay quicker than usual for someone in as good of shape as me. I did read Dr Junigs blog and it makes perfect sense. I am just worried that increasing to 4mg is going to cause some of the same side effects I experienced when I inducted i.e. headaches, fatigue. I also have a job so I don't want it to hinder my work performance. I want to do it properly though. I am also obviously a bit tentative for fear of a worse withdrawal despite all the success stories I have read here ha.. I wish I had a a Dr. that wasnt so inept but thank God for this forum. I appreciate all the replies
Ryan


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Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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