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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:21 pm 
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Like I stated not too long ago that I reinjured my knee well things were starting to get better till last night when I slipped on ice and ended up in the ER. So I talked with my Dr today about my pain issues and how SUBOXONE isn’t really working of late and I’m already on 24 mgs a day so we both came to the conclusion I could increase to 36 mgs but what is that really goanna do for me. And I’m goanna be 100% honest with my friend here on this forum I fell stuck after 4 years of SUBOXONE for pain management and it’s not working as well now that my pain issues have gotten worst over this pass couple months. When I think about it I’m goanna be on some type of medication and I’m sitting here asking myself why continue taking this med if it’s not meeting my needs anymore, and when I say this I’m not saying this as if I want to go back on painkillers but if maybe a change to methadone would be more beneficial to my health???? I’ll be honest I have never been a big supporter of methadone over suboxone but if it would work better and help me live a more normal life without pain I’m interested! So my questions are this, 1 has anyone changed from Suboxone to Methadone with positive results? 2 Is anyone on this forum on methadone for pain management?

And a upside I’m looking at if I did switch to a methadone clinic ill also be getting more drug counseling help and all that other stuff that comes along with a clinic vs. a private Dr who writes me 2 months worth of suboxone and sends me on my way. If I didn’t see a private counselor I would be basically alone with 100s of suboxone films and that’s it and my counselor has nothing to do with my sub Dr. so id also be getting counseling from the people that are involved in my meds which to me sounds like a great thing.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:57 pm 
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I actually chose Suboxone over methadone. My plan was to see if it worked and if it didn't, I'd switch to Methadone. However, my pain got better over time, not worse, so I didn't need the methadone. Although the Sub did help my pain get to a manageable level, it didn't get rid of it entirely by any means!!! I do not think Sub is such a great choice for serious pain, and I was taking 32 mg. IMO, Methadone is much better than going onto regular opiates, mainly since, like you said, you'll have access to more counseling and help for your addiction history.

Not an easy decision I'm sure. Let us know how it works out.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:10 pm 
Whats up Bboy!!

I personally havent switched from sub to methadone but when i was using methadone off the street and couldnt get any, i would use sub at times(i know i was wrong for that and i apologize) and i had no problem between the two. Methadone is a wonderful pain killer. You will have zero pain, full speed energy and 110% craving free. It works just like suboxone except it does in fact give you much more opiate affect. I can promise you your pain will not exist on methadone. If you have no choice, methadone will be great for you. I definitely understand, i really do. Your needs arent being met anymore through sub and its great that your not copping out an giving up. Your still wanting recovery and thats awesome!! Keep up the great work and let us know what you decide. In my opinion, methadone is very safe through a clinic and it will definitely do everything sub does with 110% pain relief. You will be pleased i promise. Hope this helps!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:26 pm 
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I have also heard that Methadone is 3excellent for pain. But like lifesaver said, you will get more of an opiate effect from it (as far as I know). When it's given for pain instead of for addiction, I believe you can get a prescription for the pills from your doctor instead of having to go to a clinic everyday. But of course that depends on how your doctor wants to handle it.

Have you exhausted all other possible ways to treat your pain while on sub? I've heard from a couple of people that one can take Ultram/Tramadol along with suboxone to get better pain relief. I have no idea if this is true, but I have heard it and wanted to mention it to you. I only have one other thought, it's possible that once the cold weather subsides, some of your pain might subside, too. I'd hate for you to make a change if your pain is temporary. Obviously, YOU need to decide what's best for you and I think I speak for all of us here when I say we support you in whatever way you choose.

If Dr. J reads this - I'd really like to hear your take on taking Ultram along with suboxone for better pain relief. Can it be done or is it some crazy urban myth?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:35 pm 
Hey hat!!

I think what bboy's problem is worse now because he slipped and fell on the ice or something. So im assuming he has messd up his knee further. I have first hand experience with methadone as it was my DOC. Thats why i was guaranteeing the fact that its so effective. Once you become stable on it, you really dont get the high like you do in the beginning. Kinda like sub, it works a bit different in the beginning but once you adjust things level out.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:39 pm 
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I know - I just wanted to throw out the possibility that perhaps the cold weather is making the pain worse. I know it does for me and many others. It was just a thought.

Regardless, BBoy - like I said, whatever you decide, we're behind you all the way. You've been a very supportive and highly valued member of this community and I hope we can now support you in your time of need. I sincerely hope you find a way to treat your chronic pain. I know how that kind of pain messes with every single aspect of your life.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:01 pm 
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I would really like to know this as well. Since methadone has greater pain relieving properties, can you go a day or so without it like you can with sub and not notice? Or do you notice? One thing I really like about suboxone is that it is so LEVEL. No highs. No lows. Methadone kind of scares me. Plus, if you went from sub to methadone, would you have to be on an outrageously high amount of methadone? Another thing. Will methadone work for peripheral neuropathy like suboxone does? Is it harder to taper from methadone than suboxone? Could you take a higher dose of methadone one day due to intense pain and then 2 days later just drop right back down again without withdrawal?

Here is my problem. The suboxone isn't really working for me either. It is for the peripheral neuropathy 100% but for my other condition, I just keep finding myself depressed and housebound, scared I won't be able to work, etc. I feel like 70% of my life is ruined by it. The suboxone prevents me from going insane most of time but I am just spending too much time unhappy due to pain. It is frustrating. But then with my condition, it isn't always painful. Sometimes I don't need anything for pain. It is kind of frustrating to go up and down with the meds all the time, but it is what it is.

The only other thing about methadone is that employers drug test for it and that sucks.

I'm going to add this one last thing just because I still need to get it off my chest and I am sorry if I am hijacking your post. I only get one life. I am tired of feeling like everyone else gets to judge it and everyone else can judge what I need or don't need and what will give me that quality of life and what will not. I'm not even sure if I would have the option of methadone because you are always at the mercy of whatever doctor. For me the methadone would be cheaper. But it still scares the crap out of me. The whole idea of it does.

If you are on methadone do you have to worry about pain killers if something bad happens to you? Does it have negative side effects like depression.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:25 pm 
Jackcrack:

Im gonna try to answer all of your questions best i can as i do know a good bit about methadone. If i leave a question out, forgive me i will come back to it. Can you go a day without and not notice? Yes, i always woke up still feeling really really good. Pain free, energy, for me it honestly was stronger the next day than sub is. Their was no highs and lows for me as long as i had a steady flow of methadone. I was taking it off the street but i still took it for months at a time every single day so i do know what its like to be stable on it. I dont know how the switch would work wether you would have to take an outragous amount of sub or not. I know methadone is really strong so i would think that you wouldnt. Im not sure what peripheral neuropathy is but i can tell you, with methadone in you their will not be a pain in your entire body, literally. I would say that it is probably not that easy to taper from methadone. I never did it but i do know what the withdrawal is like and its pretty bad. However, im speaking of a withdrawal going straight from 60mg's to not having any the next day after taking it for weeks in a row. So, you can imagine why my withdrawal was so bad. I dont know how taking a different dose one day to the next would work. I suppose with the doctor understanding your situation it could be arranged. Methadone will not give you as hard of a time if something bad were to happen to you and you needed surgery or something. Although it does have a blocking effect, it doesnt block to the same degree as sub. When i would take methadone, i could take a few hydrocodone's an maybe even some oxy with it, just to boost the methadone. However, if your stable in your recovery i dont really see why such a thing would matter. If i've left something out or you have any more questions, feel free to ask away as i will answer them the best i can. Hope this helps!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:40 pm 
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Jackcrack - You are 100% absolutely right in that no one else can judge YOUR quality of life, especially when it comes to chronic pain. YOU are the one that has to live with it and no one should ever judge you for trying to get some pain relief. People who don't have to deal with pain day in, day out, have practically no idea what it's like to live like that. It invades every single part of your life and your daily activities. It can be downright hellish. So I'll tell you the same thing I told BBoy - if you decide to go the way of Methadone, we're here to support you all the way. My pain stole my hard-earned career out form under me, so I understand your fear of not being able to work. It's a valid fear. It's taken me years to accept the fact that I'm not that pre-pain person I used to be.

Jack, I truly hope you can get some relief soon. You, too, BBoy.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:01 pm 
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Thankyou all for so many replys im on my cell phone so its takeing for ever for all the post to load but ill be on 100% tomm to answere and also aware everyone of my pain issues and why this switch was brough so quick.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:10 pm 
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Well guys Brent here ill try to touch on all the questions asked from you guys and well most importantly tell what I decided to do with my life at this point. First and for most yes Hat the weather plays a big part in my pain but I did reinjure my knee like live saver mentioned I might off. I basically was shoveling so my mom could get going to work well it was real icy out but I didn’t notice soon enough. And basically did a spilt do to my knee giving out completely to the point where I had to pop it back in myself. The pain was so bad this time around worst than it has ever have been worse than when I injured it in the first place and ended up on 200 mgs of oxy. So I had my dad take to me to the ER just to make sure I didn’t tare anything and have to see my specialist in 2 weeks making the app tomm. Well while at the ER I had a very understanding Dr who actually knew what SUB was thank god and understood what precautions needed to be taken with how to deal with my pain. I denied everything the dumb nurse wanted to give me and had my dad run home and get me 4 8mg suboxone films and took that on top of 24 I took that morning seem to help but not much. So I’ve been laid up in bed for a couple days really thinking about my life and how come I’m taking a medication that isn’t working that well anymore for my pain. Which lead to the idea of switching to methadone knowing it will help a ill more with my pain but also my cravings oh yea I should of mention that even b4 I reinjured my knee I’ve been having serious cravings to use, serious cravings to the point where my mom has my cell phone and car keys just so I don’t do anything stupid on one of these bad days. Well any ways I talked with my SUB dr after all this happen and like I said b4 36 mgs of SUB at this point is just way to high of dose shit 24 is too high in my eyes. We didn’t have time to talk too much but I do see him next week were I will bring this up him. The one thing hat you said is he can prescribe methadone for pain but that really defeats the purpose of why I want to go to a clinic I don’t want to be getting medication this strong any more without seeing someone for 2 to 3 months. I’m sure everyone here could understand that.

But here is what I decided to do after sleeping on it for 24 hours. I’m goanna stick it out with SUBOXONE till the weather gets warmer but at the same time I’m going back to physical therapy and really give my best and if I’m still in serious pain than I’m prolly going to switch to methadone. But after I give it my all, the reason of not switching right now is because I’m scared if I get that opiate feelings even a couple times till I get use to the meds I will abuse the meds even after 4 years clean If I felt that feeling one time I know it would starting playing in my mind if I’m back on a full antagonist than shit just go back on OXYCONTIN and actually get my pain taking care off.

Oh yea Hat as of muscle relaxers or I think that’s what you mentioned I don’t mention this much but I was also on SOMA while I was in active addiction. So MR are out of the question all together cause that would basically be a relapse for myself.

Thank You all for your support and for being honest with me. What really did it for me was knowing I would be going back on a full antagonist if I made this switch would put me at a very high risk of relapse weather I want to believe it or not that’s the truth and I am glad I have the balls and smarts to realize this. Just a extra thank you to all you guys for the support you gave to me at this point in my life i dont know what mistake i would of made if you guys werent honest with me.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:31 pm 
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You've obviously put a lot of reasonable thought into this and I think you've got a really good short-term plan. You're smart to recognize your limitations and to respect them. That is paramount in avoiding relapse, I think. You've been such a supportive member around here, I'm glad you came to us for support for yourself. I hate to think you're in so much pain. Hang in there and I hope the PT helps. Keep us posted.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:13 pm 
First off if I were you I wouldnt feel any type of guilt for switching to methadone (I dont know if you are just saying). Just because there is suboxone now shouldnt mean a tried and true medication thats been around for decades shouldnt be considered in addiction treatment. I have voiced my opinion on this subject to the point where it probably gets annoying to people but I am going on to methadone as soon as I can afford the 300$ a month fee and be able to work daily visits the to the clinic in my schedule. I cant afford 16mgs a day like I need and I dont think I ever will be able to and methadone is the same price at the clinic whether you are on 10mgs or 300mgs or however high of a dose you need. Years ago I ruptured the tendon that rests under your ankle and it splintered and is popped out of place and now runs along the outside of my ankle. Its never gotten better and I cant afford the surgery (I looked into it years ago) and is what eventualy led me to use and abuse opiates, only after using them for pain did I get addicted to the recreational and the depression/anxiety releiving effects. I got on subs to get off full agonists but I honestly hoped it would help with the pain at least a little since the misinformation you read online says its 40x the analgesic potency of morphine which is a freakin laugh (whoever came up with that figure is a moron). Since I cant be on the proper dose and suboxone doesnt even address my mental cravings I have come to the conclusion that I did what I said I was gonna do which was give suboxone a shot and if it didnt work go on to methadone like I originaly was gonna do but decided to at least try suboxone. Bboy if you are worried about abusing the methadone it will most likely not be much of an issue if you go the route of a clinic because even though you do get take homes you will have to be called in at random for bottle checks so they can make sure you arent doubling up on doses and abusing. Even if you didnt get called in for a random check using take homes like that would be hell, you would end up having to go full days without your dose because you took it to early. I dont think you would have any issue with abuse, I dont know you but you seem to take your recovery serious and with the regulations of a clinic I just dont see it happening. I just wanted to say that you are not alone in wanting to go on methadone and I will indefinitely when the time comes that its feasible. Now if you got it Rx'd for pain and got a months script right off the bat of X amount of pills then you might have a real issue with possible abuse. I hope whatever path you choose things start to get better and again just wanted to say that there is no shame in going on methadone.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:31 pm 
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I couldn't tolerate going to a clinic every stinking day. That would suck. I have to work and that would take like an hour or more every day to do that. CRAZY! Plus to be bothered about coming in for bottle checks and crap like that would drive me crazy.

Of course, I actually need to vary my dose so for me, that is a big deal.

BBoy I think you have it figured out and have a good plan. Making these decisions is difficult because it is such a big deal. Even if something isn't working as well as I might like it, I hate to rock the boat. My life in general is going okay and I don't want to screw anything up. You just never know when you change something and then you never know how hard it would be to change back either.

Good luck.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:43 pm 
As long as you dont screw up tho and follow all the rules you realy only have to go to the clinic daily for a few months. After 90 days around here you get 3 take homes a week and then after 6 months you get take homes for 5 days a week and only have to go to the clinic on monday and wednesday


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:41 pm 
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Special Thanks to Hat, SUBOXOWNED, Live Saver and Jack Crack for showing me so much support and providing me with great information so fast.

Yea hat and jack I’m goanna truly give this short term plan my all and hope I could stick with SUBOXONE but like SUBOWNED said I will not be ashamed of myself anymore if I have to switch to methadone for better pain management. But that is only after I truly give this plan a 110% and if I have switch I will switch knowing I gave it my all and that’s all I can ask for from myself!

Yea SUBOXOWNED I would not be so much ashamed just more scared what the switch could lead to that is just for me. I mean if anyone on here switched over to methadone I would show them the same support now after reading your post on this topic. I always looked at methadone as I guess I would say a step below SUB, but really they are the same and in my eyes now. Cause methadone is a great thing and these clinics are blessings for a lot of people. I’m lucky to say I can afford treatment on SUBOXONE but a lot of people can’t and that’s not fair. Because we got addicts finally wanting help but unless their pockets are fat or you have good health insurance you’re put in a position right off the bat of relapse do to the coast of this medication. But with methadone it’s not like that they won’t turn people away just because they don’t have thousands of dollars to invest in their recovery like we do with suboxone. I mean one thing that truly upsets me with SUB is how much your first visit coast aka induction I know kids who had to show up with 500 cash to even be seen and there was no guarantee they would prescribe you medication if you didn’t meet certain requirements.

But I will keep this thread updated as much as I can with how my pain levels are and how my plan is working out.

Thank You so much guys
Brent


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:00 am 
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BBoy - Just a note. Yesterday I went back to doing pain journaling to see how much the sub was or was not really helping me. I woke up at 2am in pretty severe pain and just documented how I was feeling, for how long, what activities I was having difficulty with, etc. I didn't take any sub until I had been awake for 5 hours so I could really get all that documented. Then I took my sub and documented the same. Interestingly, I noticed that for my pain level of 6-7 and feeling kind of sad and miserable and wanting to leave work and just go lay on the couch and try to be comfortable; that once I took the sub, my pain level got down to a 2-3 within about an hour and a half and by 2.5 hrs. it was down to 1-2 so long as I wasn't moving. Then I documented when the pain levels started coming back up again. It actually took about 5 hours or so which was pretty good.

Anyways, the point is that I have spent so much time miserable lately and thinking the suboxone really isn't working for my pain. It is true that pain levels of a 9 don't get much relief from suboxone and there are days where I am pretty miserable all day long. But journaling allows me to see how much quality of life I am getting from the suboxone and makes it easier to truly determine how much it is helping.

So far I have learned that my problem might be more of needing to increase my dose in terms of how many times per day I am taking it versus the suboxone just not working. I am going to continue documenting however and see where I land with this.

Just a thought.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:54 pm 
@bboy yea I hear you about sort of being scared about making the switch too I feel the same way. I worry that once I start taking a full agonist again and get that true opiate feeling it may flip a switch in my brain and have me off to the races again trying to get that feeling all the time. But then I think about how serious I have been about my recovery and how hard I have been working at it that I dont think feeling a small buzz for the first few days of MMT before Im stabilized on a dose is going to jeopordize all my effort in staying clean. Im pretty sure I would do better on methadone for the moderate but chronic ankle pain I have and with my cravings. And also the cost of methadone, while it isnt cheap its way cheaper than suboxone, since I will never have insurance that covers subs if I were to pay out of pocket for what I need it would 600$ a month vs the 300$ a month for methadone. Also like you said the clinic provides counseling and treatment and that is included in the 300$ fee so you dont have to pay extra and you gain a support group which I realy would benefit from (as long as the people going to it weren't nodding out on themselves and such like ive heard hah.) The thing that concerns me tho is do you think a clinic will accept a person onto MMT if they come in and have only been on suboxone for the last however many months? Do you think they would make you go out and actualy relapse in order to get accepted because that would be insane and I dont think I could do that.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:06 pm 
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Yea Jack that’s actually a good idea! I use to do a pain journal but over time I just fell off and started skipping one day than one day turns to a couple then a couple to a week than a week to the hell with it. But I wonder maybe if I had my mom or Gf take control of it and ask me the questions I would stick with it? I’m goanna ask them if they would help me with it I don’t think they would have any problem doing it so maybe this will be a good idea.

As of your question suboxowned I think I understand are you asking do you think they would help you and switch you over to methadone if you are not in active addiction and have been on SUBs for a couple months???


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:58 pm 
Yeah thats what I was asking, i dont see how they could turn you away but I guess its possible. I will just explain it to them that I wanted to try suboxone first before going the route of methadone but I dont feel that its holding me as well and I feel Im having more cravings than I would had I gone on methadone and then see what they say about it.


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