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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:46 pm 
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Yea well I talked with the methadone clinic today had a couple questions about things. Anyways they told me since ive been on SUBOXONE for 4 years for pain management that they will help me but they said I should talk to my SUB Dr about this first cause he is my normal Dr as well so he can prescribed me methadone. Basically told me to tell him that the SUB is not working anymore and go from there. And have no problem doing the whole clinic thing with me but I would get my meds from my own Dr and they would be touch with him throughout my treatment.

As of blind treatment, Methadone clinics also actually have what they call a "blind detox" where the patient doesn't know when there dose is being lowered. Some clinics do not like this method others swear by it. But Its mainly used for people who have been on long long term tapers like 10 plus years and are at the end but cant get over that hump. Also is used in many case study medications programs even non controlled substances meds use this method time to time.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:47 pm 
Are you switching to it now or are you still gonna wait and see if you can get by with the sub? Hopefully your sub doctor wont be hard headed about it because since he Rx's suboxone he might try to convince you how "bad" methadone is. Hopefully not tho I just remember at my induction when I mentioned I almost went the route of methadone they didnt talk very kindly about methadone and told me basicaly that I am much better off with suboxone than methadone. I realy wish I was in a position to get on the methadone now instead of having to wait because subs just aren't cutting it for me anymore. I feel like all the suboxone is doing is keeping me out of withdrawal that I wouldnt even have were I not taking suboxone. I would of been well over the physical withdrawal by now from my habit and yes it would of been hard as hell and maybe I could not of done it without subs but now it just seems like I'm taking nothing everyday when I take my sub except for tired as hell and I get constant headaches and nausea. Its not working on my cravings and I know methadone would. I have this feeling that once I do get on methadone Im gonna be like "Ahhhhhhhhh now I know what it feels like to not crave dope everyday" where as with suboxone I feel like its doing nothing but keeping me from getting physicaly sick. Acute withdrawal sucks but it is in no way (for me) as hard as the PAWS and with the sub I feel like Im still having PAWS. Im unmotivated, lethargic, depressed, anxious. Im not bashing sub but Im just not all that impressed with it anymore. If its a choice between methadone or going back to using for me I think methadone is the better option any day.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:51 pm 
Bboy:

I've never heard such a thing but i dont doubt you. I know that the law states that you can only get methadone from a regular doctor for pain and definitely not addiction. However, i guess if the clinic can be in contact with your doctor and hes ok with it, then that would work out great for you!! Not to sound discouraging but, try not to get your hopes up. I know how convenient this would be for you but it would take a really kool doctor to be nice enough to do such a thing. Hopefully your doctor is not in this for the money. Im not saying he is but, this day in time doctors can seem to be so nice and the best of people, but turn out being the biggest of cons and crooked as hell. Even with a long trusting relationship. I guess im just speaking from my own experience because my doctor turned out to be the sorriest piece of shit doctor i've ever had. I mean, he treated me so well and had me calling him the best doctor i ever had, but then i had to switch to generic subutex and his true colors came shining through brighter than ever. He is a idiot too. Sorry i've started rambling about my own situation. I hope things turn out as you need them too!!

Suboxowned:

I cant even tell you how similar my thoughts are with yours. My only problem i have with it is the fact that my DOC was methadone. I just cant wrap my mind around switching honestly. Although it could turn out that way but only if things got absolutely unbarable with sub. And i have also felt the same way about the fact that its keeping me out of withdrawal thats non existent. That statement honestly just gave me a lot of clarity with my situation. I will never be a sub basher and will always be grateful for it but damn, i have to wander if i would feel the exact way i feel right now had i been able to fight the withdrawal and remain abstinent. Your whole post really has me thinking and questioning things. Its actually brought quite a different perspective to mind. I have honestly thought the exact thought but very quickly dismissed the it. Now i seem to be thinking much harder about it. I just wish so bad that i didnt have to take anything. As im sure we all do but i just dont know how soon that can be. Not soon enough honestly but im ok with it. I am getting very sick of the days where i feel as if its not working properly. Either from absorption or whatever it may be. Ugghh now im just getting a bit frustrated with things but im very glad you brought this up because it helped me. peace


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:28 pm 
Yeah I hear ya lifesaver and sorry if what I said brought up feelings of frustration with you I just had to get it off my chest. The thing is I dont mind taking something at all but I do mind be physicaly dependant on opiates when in fact they arent doing a damn thing for me. I dont want to feel high from suboxone but I want to feel SOMETHING like relief of cravings. My theory with opiate replacement therapy is "if it aint broke dont fix it" meaning methadone has worked for decades and now this relatively new suboxone comes along and everyone should be on it instead. I feel like thats how clinics are going to be in the future, any new patient coming in for help is going to be persuaded or forced to be on suboxone and not have a choice. I honestly dont see what makes "suboxone better" either, I know Dr. junig says tolerance isnt an issue with it and the same dose can be taken for years and years and give the same relief but then I get why people like me and lifesaver feel as if its not helping at all anymore. Also apparently suboxone is equated in terms of dependance to be like coming off of 30mgs of methadone so if the withdrawal is as bad as 30mgs of methadone what is the benefit then? You are tapered well below 30mgs at the clinic and I bet the withdrawal from methadone is not all that much worse than suboxone. In fact I know people who have withdrawn from both and said "dont be fooled by the info that suboxone withdrawal is easy cuz it was almost as if not as hard as methadone" and I believe them. And then of course there is the cost, why pay double, triple, quadruple etc for suboxone when you can pay 300$ a month for methadone treatment/counseling group sessions and get complete relief from physical and mental withdrawal with the latter being the hardest part anyway. I am not bashing sub I am just very frustrated with it and Im constantly questioning why Im taking it still because it is just costing me alot of money and not doing much of anything for me anymore.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:45 pm 
Suboxonwed:

Dont be sorry man its all good!! Im glad that it was brought to light because it made me open my eyes a bit. Without saying things that i know people will disagree with and possibly wanna bash me for, i will just say that i definitely agree with some things that you are saying. Thats all im gonna say. peace


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:39 pm 
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lifesaver wrote:
Bboy:

I've never heard such a thing but i dont doubt you. I know that the law states that you can only get methadone from a regular doctor for pain and definitely not addiction. However, i guess if the clinic can be in contact with your doctor and hes ok with it, then that would work out great for you!! Not to sound discouraging but, try not to get your hopes up. I know how convenient this would be for you but it would take a really kool doctor to be nice enough to do such a thing. Hopefully your doctor is not in this for the money. Im not saying he is but, this day in time doctors can seem to be so nice and the best of people, but turn out being the biggest of cons and crooked as hell. Even with a long trusting relationship. I guess im just speaking from my own experience because my doctor turned out to be the sorriest piece of shit doctor i've ever had. I mean, he treated me so well and had me calling him the best doctor i ever had, but then i had to switch to generic subutex and his true colors came shining through brighter than ever. He is a idiot too. Sorry i've started rambling about my own situation. I hope things turn out as you need them too!!

Suboxowned:

I cant even tell you how similar my thoughts are with yours. My only problem i have with it is the fact that my DOC was methadone. I just cant wrap my mind around switching honestly. Although it could turn out that way but only if things got absolutely unbarable with sub. And i have also felt the same way about the fact that its keeping me out of withdrawal thats non existent. That statement honestly just gave me a lot of clarity with my situation. I will never be a sub basher and will always be grateful for it but damn, i have to wander if i would feel the exact way i feel right now had i been able to fight the withdrawal and remain abstinent. Your whole post really has me thinking and questioning things. Its actually brought quite a different perspective to mind. I have honestly thought the exact thought but very quickly dismissed the it. Now i seem to be thinking much harder about it. I just wish so bad that i didnt have to take anything. As im sure we all do but i just dont know how soon that can be. Not soon enough honestly but im ok with it. I am getting very sick of the days where i feel as if its not working properly. Either from absorption or whatever it may be. Ugghh now im just getting a bit frustrated with things but im very glad you brought this up because it helped me. peace


Yea Live Saver I am very lucky to say my SUBOXONE Dr is my normal Health Dr as well, you know for shots physicals and that other entire stuff normal Docs do. So he can easily prescribe me methadone if he wants too key word wants. Yea im not getting my hopes up ill end up at a clinic if I do end up on methadone most likely but ill still see him for my other meds. But he is a cool Dr that’s for sure I won’t get into the stuff he says and does during my apps but I’ll just say he knows his shit but he makes seeing the Dr Fun.

Honestly Suboxowned if I have to go to a clinic than no I’m not switching to methadone right away I’m giving my short term plan a go. But if my normal Dr would prescribe me it I would make the change as soon as possible. Im in the same boat you are man after 4 years Suboxone just doesn’t do it any more for me. I have terrible pain all day I’m at about a 8 on the pain scale 6 on great days 7 on good days, but I have been having terrible cravings now for the past year but ive just dealt with them with things ive learned in drug counseling but over time you could only use these techniques so long b4 your body and mind start to pick up on them. And now that I reinjured my knee cant tell you how bad things have been of late I had a good day today but now my meds wore off im in hell

and ill say this part in caps
DONT GET ME WRONG I LOVE SUBOXONE AND WHAT IT HAS DONE FOR ME. I WOULD BE DEAD OR IN JAIL BY NOW IF IT WASNT FOR SUBOXONE. BUT AFTER 4 YEARS OF SUB I AM AT A POINT WERE ITS JUST NOT MEETING MY NEEDS ANY MORE. AND IF I COULD STAY ON SUBOXONE I WOULD BUT MY PAIN NEEDS TO BE TAKEN CARE OFF NOW NOT LATER WHICH IS WHY IM CONSIDERING THIS SWITCH.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:38 pm 
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Well guys I go back to the Dr in 2 weeks we talked about what’s been going on. And I am goanna go to a joint specialist to see if I could have surgery instead of having to go back on a full antagonist aka methadone so I can stay on suboxone. He doesn’t have a problem with me taking methadone but he wants me to give every option one last try b4 we go to that extreme. As to if he would prescribe it to me he said he has to think about but I have to go and do everything possible b4 he goes that route But would have no problem recommending me to a pain management Dr who he knows and is familiar with opiate recovery but using methadone for pain. . This is more than fair because that’s basically what I was planning on doing with my short term plan. I’ll keep you updated, I do have hope that I can stay on suboxone but if I do have to switch to methadone I will at least know I gave it my best b4 I make the change. All I want is to not be in pain so what ever it may be to make that come true im all in for.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:24 pm 
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I apologize about downing methadone. I never have read the docs rules about siding with sub or done. I shouldn't have said something I don't know to be true personaly myself. I usually don't do that stuff. I actually was only meaning to help out with information I felt not everyone might have heard before. Wade :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:47 pm 
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Wade, I don't think you did anything wrong. You were giving your OPINION.

And folks, let's try not to tell other people not to listen or not to pay attention to others' replies.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:12 pm 
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BBoy - you may want to check out Scruffy's recent post where Dr. J posted because it made a lot of sense to me what he said. He basically said that even with methadone, you will develop a tolerance and it won't help you pain over time. He then suggested all people would be better off on suboxone for pain and supplement with oxycoone (is that the drug he mentioned?????) for pain as needed. Double check the drug he mentioned but it made sense to me.

Cherie


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:28 pm 
Granted Im not a doctor but I dont see how taking oxycodone along with suboxone would do anything at all. I know a guy who is on hydrocodone for an amputated foot along with suboxone (for addiction he's a heroin addict) and he gets no pain relief at all he says. I know hydrocodone is weaker than oxy but Im just using it as an example. I guess you would have to be on a low dose of sub like 4mgs or less but then you are going to end up craving constantly like I do as I am on 4mgs.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:34 pm 
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I don't know. You would have to read the research article he posted in the thread and I believe that explains it. I'm skeptical myself in that I have taken oxy after surgery while on sub and it does nothing for me. On the other hand, I understand Dr. J when he says you will only develop a tolerance to the methadone for pain anyways so there basically has to be an end. I mean, unfortunately for BBoy, he is so young. Can you imagine the methadone dose he would have to be on for pain eventually? But the time he is 60?

I really don't think they have developed great solutions for pain. You can either take opiates forever and develop an incredible tolerance or take methadone and develop tolerance or take suboxone and develop tolerance.

I always think of my situation like this. It is unnatural to even have to explore such long term pain killing options because I should have died years ago. Modern medicine kept me here but now I can't have a quality of life. I sometimes wish I would have refused treatment and just died.

(I know I sound quite miserable right now and this is because I am. I am sure this will pass like everything else....eventually).

Cherie


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:51 pm 
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Yea I was thinking the same thing as suboxowned how would even a supplement of OC work if I am on 24 mgs of SUBOXONE even 8 mgs? Can you post the link Cherie I couldn’t seem to find t the thread you were talking about? On another hand I know I wouldn’t get euphoria or high from the supplement but it would work for my pain maybe I’m sure it would if Dr. J would take time to post it. But knowing myself if I ever brought OC aka my Drug of Choice back into the picture I would end up in a very bad spot. I know myself and I would branch off into my world of addiction saying well if I am taken a supplement of OXY than why not just take the real thing. Than ill end up back in pain management clinics getting opiates.

I do agree Cherie it is scary of where my dose of methadone could end up down the road if I switched. But I am even more scared of were ill end up if I continue down the road I am with suboxone! Every day gets worst and every day all I think about is pain killers if I don’t make a change soon and fast I don’t know where things will end up. And I am very scared of relapsing but like yourself knowing what it is like to live in pain every day your mind could do terrible things to want to not be in pain. I guess it’s more than safe to say I am at a dead end with SUBOXONE it just doesn’t work anymore. I have cravings like I use to have when I was in between scripts of oxycontin. And my pain is not being managed and my only other option is methadone. I have accepted that I will be on a chemical dependency medication the rest of my life and I just don’t think its goanna be SUBOXONE. But like I said I am goanna try everything to stay on SUB so I don’t have to go back to full antagonist but I am not getting my hopes up that anything will change.

And Cherie some days I wish I refused SUBOXONE for treatment as well I hate what this drug has done to my life and me as a person. I am so numb to reality it makes me cry sure SUB saved my life but its making my life a living hell now!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:21 pm 
Cherie I feel for you when you said "I wish I would of just refused treatment and just died", its ironic because I said that very same thing today when I got back from my PO and I have said it to myself probably once a week if not more since I got off opiates. I just wish sometimes that the phenazepam and opiate overdose I had 6 months ago would of killed me and i would of just never woke up from the blackout, instead I woke up in a jail cell for a domestic violence charge (me and my father got into a scuffle) and now have a permanent record at 25 years old and nobody will hire me and give me a chance to make a life for myself because when they see my record they think Im a wife beater and dont know that it was my dad who I got into it with because I never get a chance to get face to face with an interviewer they just toss my application as soon as they see my charge. Sorry for the rambling im just trying to explain why I feel the way I do, its like Im doing everything I can in life to work my recovery despite being on a low ball dose of suboxone and fighting through it everyday and Im not using, I'm getting my GED finaly after putting it off for years because of addiction and Im trying to stay positive about life but when you get nothing but punishment for trying to do right it starts to feel like "why bother staying clean Im gonna get the same results using as I am if I stay clean" and thats being miserable. Most days I feel like I would rather just go back to using opiates, there are worse things in the world than being addicted for example fighting a non winning battle with addiction everyday of your life consantly having to work recovery just to get through the day, Id rather be using and at least have that escape because I can say in all honesty that I was happier while using. I am more miserable now and while I was using and getting high I was never miserable as long as I was opiated it was only the first few hours of the day before I had dosed that I was miserable but the majority of the time I always had a supply and dosed right away when i woke up so that wasnt realy an issue since I rarely ran out. Bboy I sympathize with you too because I also will be on ORT more than likely forever and I can say with certainty that it sure isn't gonna be suboxone, I will get on methadone when its able to be done but until then I gotta settle for subs. Also even tho methadone causes tolerance I dont believe it loses its effectiveness for curbing cravings even tho you become tolerant to the "buzz" because I remember when I was in pretty much a maintenance phase with my drug of choice for a couple months, I was so tolerant that I could not get high anymore but when i dosed I did not get cravings nearly as much as I do with sub, sure I wanted to get high but there is a big difference between wanting and craving. Bboy I would do whatever you need to do to have a good quality of life because frankly everyone who has pain and has taken or is taking suboxone knows it does next to nothing for pain and I also dont buy into the idea that the same dose a person stabilizes on will work the same 10 years from now as it did in the beginning during induction. Man I got way off track with the rambling so I'll stop, jackcrack and bboy I hope everything starts to get better for you because I know how it is to be struggling because Im going through a lot as well.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:40 pm 
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Suboxowned, I'm so sorry to see you this dreadfully unhappy. It's clear you are not happy in your recovery; you've said multiple times that you'd rather still be using. I applaud you for admitting that. The way you describe how you feel sounds familiar to me. It reminds me of what some people call a "dry drunk". They've stopped using their DOC (or drinking), but they kind of don't want to be in recovery. I have no idea if this fits you or not, it just sounded familiar to me. I genuinely hope you can find some relief some day, be it methadone or a higher dose of sub. I'd hate to see you go back to using though. That never ends well and has lots of lasting negative consequences, as I'm sure all of us know.

I just want to add that not all of us with chronic pain think suboxone is useless. It has been extremely valuable to me in allowing me to live with a tolerable level of pain. It works for others as well. I wish it worked better for you, but some people do have a good experience with it relieving at least some of their pain. There is a middle ground between it helping everyone or helping no one - and that is that it helps some people. I think we can both agree on that.

Again, I hope you find some peace soon. When I read your words I can hear your pain and I feel for you. Please take care.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:33 pm 
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Thank you for understanding where I am coming from Suboxowned. But like Hat I am so sorry to hear that you are going through such a terrible time right now. It’s not easy to continue taking SUBOXONE when it is worthless to your recovery in a sense and I can agree with you on that. I also had the same ideas at times when I first started my recovery, that I was a lot happier and better person while using. But then you really think about and that’s not true it may seem true during rough times but when all is said and done your HEALTH IS VERY IMPORTANT and let’s face facts the drugs we took destroyed our body’s. I know I am sure you heard this many times over the last couple months but some days it’s the only thing that does work “take it each day at a time”! People in recovery think that quote is bullshit but it truly helps on these bad days. Look forward to the future man things can and will get better just give it time. I know I read that you might be getting onto the assistance program soon at your SUB Dr any update on that????? I really do think a increase in your dose will make a big difference in your mood and mind set. Ill keep my finger crossed for you and say a prayer tonight. Are you seeing any type of drug counselor man? I can tell you that is the only reason I have been clean for the last 4 years it helps so much to be able to talk to a professional that know how to deal with this shit.

One thing I agree totally with what you said is SUB and long term I can tell you only after 4 years that 24 to 32 mgs is not even close to the same as it was my first 2 years.

But one thing I want you to understand is SUBOXONE did work for my pain for a good 3 years I don’t want to cause false hope in any one that it won’t work for pain because it does and will help. I am just at a point in my treatment where SUB is not working for my CRAVINGS AND My PAIN. But that is only after I reinjured my knee for the 2nd time this 4th year on SUB. But more than anything sub just isn’t allowing me to live a happy normal life any more and that’s the main reason I am going to switch to methadone.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:51 pm 
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Suboxowned - I too am sorry you are in this situation. I will say that although it seems hopeless with the DV charge right now, it is not. I don't know what field you want to work in but many employers don't do background checks and of those who do, many will only disqualify you from employment for felonies and not misdemeanors and others will only disqualify for fraud or theft charges and most will only look back 5 years. You will get over that charge....I can assure you. Especially if you don't ADD any to it. I do think sub is at least keeping you out of jail right now no? I mean, I too agree you would do somewhat better on a higher dose. It may not be perfect for you and maybe methadone would be better for you in the end, but it should keep you from getting high. In the meantime, you really have to do something to make this better for yourself. Do you have a therapist? Can you get one? Please don't interpret this to mean that I think it is all in your head because that is NOT what I am saying. But I don't go to NA/AA. I just have a therapist who I started seeing when I was still on oxy. We started for marriage counseling and then I liked it and continued on. Not only did it totally save my relationship, but I have learned to really mellow out about a lot of things. To a point where I have quit smoking with relatively little stress. Some of that is the chantix but a great majority of it is what I have learned in therapy. I still have bad days but there are things you can do without becoming obsessed with NA. I know you aren't happy with where you are at right now and I don't blame you. I just don't want to see you relapse over it while you are waiting to implement your permanent solution.

Cherie


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:00 pm 
Thanks you guys for the kind words. Yeah bboy I have a drug counselor I go to outpatient 2 times a week and was going 3 times a week until recently when they lowered my attendance to 2 days for doing well and since Ive been there for about 5 months. It realy helps alot although we do disagree on a few things, she doesnt tell me to get off sub but she doesnt understand that ORT is only effective usualy in the long term. Ive told her how I have not been doing well on 4mgs and Im gonna increase my dose when and if I get on the PAP but she says "I talked to my staff and they all agree that your body should be used to that dose by now and you dont need anymore" she doesnt understand the ceiling effect and that you have to be at or above the ceiling to reduce cravings no matter how much I try to explain it. I dont get why she views ORT as something that should be short term because she used to work the window at a methadone clinic years ago and was actualy on methadone herself for awhile. Jackcrack I don't have a therapist because I cant afford it but I would love to have one and think it would be very beneficial to me, I too dont realy like NA/AA but I go because treatment recommends it so Im trying to give it a chance. I just cant stand how 12 step groups act like they dont preach god or religion but then at the same time thats all anyone talks about when they share. I think they talk about it constantly on purpose in order to weed out the non religous people and scare them off, maybe thats just negative thinking on my part but it just seems that way to me. I have no problem with people who believe in god but its just not my thing to get of bed and drop to my knees and pray every morning. I dont know what I believe in, I dont believe in some almighty being who watches over everyone every single day and guides them but I do believe in something greater than me. One thing about meetings that annoys me is when you bring up that your life isnt going the way you'd like and you are having a hard time and they always say to me "your life is rigged, god has layed out everything in your life already and you are just going down the path he's already layed out for you". I dont believe that at all I think people make their own life and their own way its not already chosen for them. Another thing about meetings that bothers me is that sometimes you just wanna get something off your chest that is bothering you but meetings dont realy make that possible because every meeting has some specific topic or its a step group or a big book cough cough bible study meeting so you gotta stay with whatever the topic is. I wish somehow people could start a sub/methadone anonymous for people like us so we could be around people who understand us.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:21 pm 
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Location: Buffalo New York
suboxOWNED wrote:
Thanks you guys for the kind words. Yeah bboy I have a drug counselor I go to outpatient 2 times a week and was going 3 times a week until recently when they lowered my attendance to 2 days for doing well and since Ive been there for about 5 months. It realy helps alot although we do disagree on a few things, she doesnt tell me to get off sub but she doesnt understand that ORT is only effective usualy in the long term. Ive told her how I have not been doing well on 4mgs and Im gonna increase my dose when and if I get on the PAP but she says "I talked to my staff and they all agree that your body should be used to that dose by now and you dont need anymore" she doesnt understand the ceiling effect and that you have to be at or above the ceiling to reduce cravings no matter how much I try to explain it. I dont get why she views ORT as something that should be short term because she used to work the window at a methadone clinic years ago and was actualy on methadone herself for awhile. Jackcrack I don't have a therapist because I cant afford it but I would love to have one and think it would be very beneficial to me, I too dont realy like NA/AA but I go because treatment recommends it so Im trying to give it a chance. I just cant stand how 12 step groups act like they dont preach god or religion but then at the same time thats all anyone talks about when they share. I think they talk about it constantly on purpose in order to weed out the non religous people and scare them off, maybe thats just negative thinking on my part but it just seems that way to me. I have no problem with people who believe in god but its just not my thing to get of bed and drop to my knees and pray every morning. I dont know what I believe in, I dont believe in some almighty being who watches over everyone every single day and guides them but I do believe in something greater than me. One thing about meetings that annoys me is when you bring up that your life isnt going the way you'd like and you are having a hard time and they always say to me "your life is rigged, god has layed out everything in your life already and you are just going down the path he's already layed out for you". I dont believe that at all I think people make their own life and their own way its not already chosen for them. Another thing about meetings that bothers me is that sometimes you just wanna get something off your chest that is bothering you but meetings dont realy make that possible because every meeting has some specific topic or its a step group or a big book cough cough bible study meeting so you gotta stay with whatever the topic is. I wish somehow people could start a sub/methadone anonymous for people like us so we could be around people who understand us.



Yea I stop bothering with groups a while back they just don’t work for me. And I can’t stand people who have been part of the group for years think they are drug counselors and know what’s best for me and how my Dr does or did this wrong and I should off been off this or that a long time ago. Or how you have a person who was able to do short term with SUBOXONE so that means everyone should to that person. I guess I can’t stand people thinking they are smarter than my DR cause they disagree with SUBOXONE.

Yea that’s good you see a counselor they help a lot but that suck you can’t see a private therapist that’s where I got most of my help was in those one on ones over the past 4 years. But seeing any counselor shows you are serious about your recovery and that’s good. As to here not seeing eye to eye with you on things I can understand that been there b4. But all counselors have a different outlook so some you agree with some you don’t.

Well saw the joint Dr again was told the same thing as b4 that I can do the surgery but it would coast me a fortune and my health insurance won’t give me full coverage on the operation because of some BS issue. So I see my Dr on Wednesday and goanna let him know that I am seriously thinking of making this change to methadone. But what it comes down to is if he will prescribe it to me like I said he is my normal health DR as well so he can if he wants too and if he says no than I got to go the clinic route which will be a pain because they are all in the heart of the ghetto and that brings back bad memories and cravings for me. I don’t know what to do at this point. SUBOXONE is worthless to me at this point ive accepted that and its time to be honest with myself that it doesn’t help and if I continue down this route relapse is possible.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:07 pm 
Oh I know man I too can't stand it when AA people or my counselor acts as if they are smarter than my doctor he's somehow not doing the right thing by having me on sub and ativan. When I was getting my assessment for treatment one of my questions was "if I choose to admit myself to this treatment center will I have to go off my prescribed ativan and suboxone?" and the answer I got from her was "no as long as you dont abuse them and take them as prescribed thats fine but if you abuse then it will be a problem" and I was fine with that because I dont abuse them but ever since I started my meds have been an issue. I decided I had had enough of trying to explain myself and stopped the ativan instantly (Ive never been addicted to it I take it sparingly) because i felt like I was being strong armed off it because other people were kicked out for taking Rx'd benzos as the sole reason so I got scared because I have to finish treatment for probation. So I quit the ativan but stayed on sub and then I just started going downhill and my anxiety attacks of course were still there and I had nothing to make the extreme ones go away anymore so I started getting realy depressed. So with that happening I told her and the group at my next appt with my sub doc Im gonna bring up my anxiety and depression and see what he says and she said "thats a good idea I encourage you to do that and if you dont bring it up because you are worried about seeming like you are seeking anxiety meds I'll call him and explain to him how bad your anxiety is getting if you want" and I said nah thats ok I'll bring it up to him. So I go in to my appt tell him how Im having a realy hard time and he asks "are you having anxiety or panic?" and I told him yeah and that I wish I would of never gone off the ativan so he says "I'll give you 30 of them to use on an as needed basis" and I said ok. Well as soon as I bring it up at treatment the counselor starts shaking her head and said "no no no" like Im a child and again Im stuck trying to explain myself to no avail. I okay'd it with my PO and he said "I know you have bad anxiety take man take it if you feel you need to" and he called my counselor to express my concern over the whole situation, well Ive been able to take it but its still an issue. Its not I went to a different doctor behind my sub docs back and got it I freaking got it from him he knows my whole addiction history and treats addicts daily, i dont think he's gonna put me or himself at risk for nothing he obviously knows I have an anxiety disorder but she doesn't care. Man that sucks tho that all the methadone clinics in your area are in the ghetto, theres 2 by me one of them is in the ghetto but there is another one in the good part of town so I wont have to go to a bad neighborhood when I decide to switch to it.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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