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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:14 pm 
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Last night I watchd a 20/20 segment about teenagers and herion use. One of the teenagers was seen with several suboxone tablets and was seen crushing the sub (I assume to snort it). He said when he can't get herion he has to buy the suboxone to get by.

This was a great opportunity for them to explain exactly what suboxone is and why it is used instead as a viewer this appeared to be another drug kids are buying on the street to abuse. The show mostly focused on 3 teenagers who use herion and they started in high school. They showed them buying and smoking herion and finally two of them going to treatment and getting sober. One went to jail and after getting out moved and they lost touch with him.

It is very rare to hear about suboxone in the world and for a whole 30 seconds it was shown as another drug that abused by teenagers when they can't get herion. A missed opportunity.......

Jim


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:53 pm 
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I must admit I find this highly annoying. Seriously.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:03 pm 
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It really is sad to see another story on the media about how suboxone is bad. Not to long ago there was a article in the paper about a kid who overdosed on herion and benzos and passed away but was also on suboxone. The parents blamed the doctor cause this was suppost to be the miracle drug that saved there kids life but all it was is a form for him to make money to buy dope by selling his pills. They mainly blamed him cause the mom called around to other sub docs and found out most of them test to see if the paient is useing there meds and some do pill counts an so on. Well this dr didnt do any of that and im sure you guys get the rest. anyways it was another form of people turning suboxone into a another street drug instead of a life saver like it has been for so many of us. It would just be nice to see a good story about suboxone for once!!!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:31 pm 
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Jackcrack wrote:
I must admit I find this highly annoying. Seriously.


Me too. I'm also annoyed by Sub patients who divert their meds - they are gonna fuck it up for the Sub patients who don't.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:04 pm 
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You know Jack and DOQ that is what pisses me off the most. We read some post from new members who say they bought sub off the street and of course we always recommend they find a doctor and get it prescribed. I guess actually seeing someone on national television with them in his hand really hit home.

I am really mad at myself....at my last appointment (for those that know I am not completely convinced my doc is on the up and up) the waiting room was packed with new patients......all there to get the new film. At $175 a visit the good doctor was spending an average of 3 minutes with each paitient and I was told when I got there he was 45 minutes behind. As I said some were new patients so I know induction wasn't happening. But I overheard one guy say that the film is suppose to be stronger and that his customers will be very happy. I wanted to go off on him but did not.

This type of behavior with snorting and diversion has been a strong argument for doctor's to switch to the film from RB. I will not sit by any longer and if I see this clown again I have no problem sharing with him and the doctor what he had to say. But we are suppose to be responsible for our own recovery. How we can do that is take our sub per your doctor's direction and be honest and hope we outweigh those that are not doing that. It is hard to believe that sub is the only controlled substance I actually never run out of. On my last refill I had 9 left the day I got my prescription filled. This is such progress for this addict.

Jim


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:39 am 
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I saw the second half of this, guess I missed the part with the suboxone. I was thinking about the one kid who went to rehab 6 times and how much suboxone could have helped him.

Reraise that comment would have made me really angry too. I think diversion is RB's whole push for the film to the doctors. Actually it's pretty cool that it's harder to abuse but not all people buying from the streets are snorting it. Some are probably either doing maintenance or just getting by till their next fix.

Anyway would be great to see education about this drug and positive press


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:11 pm 
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Diary of a Quitter wrote:
Jackcrack wrote:
I must admit I find this highly annoying. Seriously.


Me too. I'm also annoyed by Sub patients who divert their meds - they are gonna fuck it up for the Sub patients who don't.


That's my biggest concern, frankly. Diversion is going to happen, that's just a fact. But it's not the same as the diversion of pain meds prescribed for pain. This is different, because it's addiction meds prescribed for addiction. So that means it's already got a big stigma attached to it. Diversion is going to look even worse as a result.

No matter how you slice this addiction thing, it's just pure evil, ain't it?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:17 pm 
I worry about that sometimes but its not a huge concern to me only because methadone patients divert their meds as well once they are allowed take home doses after so long and they havent gotten rid of methadone yet. Ive heard of patients selling their methadone right outside of the clinic. And if god forbid it did happen Id just get on methadone. Ive honestly thought about making the switch to the methadone anyway because subox just doesnt cut it for me sometimes. Most of the time yea it does but not always.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:00 pm 
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suboxOWNED wrote:
I worry about that sometimes but its not a huge concern to me only because methadone patients divert their meds as well once they are allowed take home doses after so long and they havent gotten rid of methadone yet. Ive heard of patients selling their methadone right outside of the clinic. And if god forbid it did happen Id just get on methadone. Ive honestly thought about making the switch to the methadone anyway because subox just doesnt cut it for me sometimes. Most of the time yea it does but not always.


What do you mean by suboxone doesnt cut it for you sometimes????? Just wondering why it would work just fine one day but the next its not getting the job done??? You should talk with your dr about this you might need to up your dose.


"Me too. I'm also annoyed by Sub patients who divert their meds - they are gonna fuck it up for the Sub patients who don't."

Im going threw this first hand right now ^ for a few reasons. one being my sub dr is also my family dr so he knows me welll and like i stated i have ocd so i didnt want to switch things up from pills to films cause well when you have ocd you dont like change.

BUT what really made me mad is the reason why they changed. they have been haveing a problem with people selling there scripts one gurl he caught in the parking lot comeing back from lunch. anyways now everyone has to bring in there empty foils from the films to count and make sure we have them all. and even someone like myself who has never failed a drug screen, never caceled a app with out 48 hours notice and never called for more pills or ran out b4 my next app. and really fell like i lost alot of trust from him to have to bring in garbage aka empty foils to count really???????? But the only thing that made me fell better is im the only one he sees every other month and will write both my scripts for each month knowing if i bring in the wrong script i could get him in trouble.

But still to have to bring in my empty foils is really upsetting!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:08 pm 
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Why can't diverters just take the film out of the foil and put it in a little baggie? That's the first thing I thought of when someone else was talking about Docs making patients bring the empty foils and also when my Dr. was telling me about the serial # system on the film to prevent diversion. With that said, although I still prefer the film hands down, I think it goes to show that RB is really reaching to hold on to it's customers with the loss of the patent.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:17 pm 
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Whether we are talking about drugs, theft of credit card numbers, or pretty much any other type of fraud or crime, there are always ways around the hurdles that authorities attempt to put in place. Certainly it is the job of a physician to take basic steps to address and prevent or at least detour drug diversion, but at what point does a doctor stop being a healthcare provider and cross over into law enforcement? I often read how we don't want law enforcement playing doctor. Well, I don't want doctors playing cop either and when they get to the point of requiring wrappers be returned and counted, I think the line has been crossed. I mean, what are they trying to accomplish? What is the point? They are no longer operating as healthcare providers, they are operating as detectives - or at least security guards. Look for DNA testing next to make sure it's your DNA on the wrappers and not someone else's. Or should we start with checking for finger prints on the wrapers first?

Seriously, don't physicians have enough to do without having to count pieces of trash as well?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:45 am 
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junkie781 wrote:
Diary of a Quitter wrote:
Jackcrack wrote:
I must admit I find this highly annoying. Seriously.


Me too. I'm also annoyed by Sub patients who divert their meds - they are gonna fuck it up for the Sub patients who don't.


That's my biggest concern, frankly. Diversion is going to happen, that's just a fact. But it's not the same as the diversion of pain meds prescribed for pain. This is different, because it's addiction meds prescribed for addiction. So that means it's already got a big stigma attached to it. Diversion is going to look even worse as a result.

No matter how you slice this addiction thing, it's just pure evil, ain't it?


I'm with you junkie781. If we all start pointing the stick at people for abusing suboxone, then really we should also point it back at ourselves for all those months and years we abused medications / street drugs / whatever our poison was. Just imagine all those people on cancer, watching some segment on 60 Minutes about people abusing opiate medications, getting all cranky saying "they'll wreck it for the rest of us!" But now we're all apparently in "recovery", we can start getting all judgemental about people who are suffering in addiction?

IMHO addiction is what we should be bashing, not those suffering from it.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:01 am 
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I'd appreciate it if people would stop quoting me with regards to being angry at people diverting. I just find it annoying that every time sub makes it to television is that they never mention all the good it does and only mention the bad. This is what pisses me off. The reporting is SO unbalanced and one sided.

I also find diversion fricking annoying to be honest. I'm not angry at the people taking the sub off the streets. I'm angry at the people who are being prescribed sub and who are selling it for money instead of recommending to people they get it legally. I am irritated that they are taking advantage of people. They aren't in active addiction and they have no excuses for their behavior. If my doctor starts asking for garbage, I am going to tell her I find it dangerous for ME to keep all that evidence of my addition around everywhere. I mean......I take my sub at work when I can fit it in....in the car....on the eliptical....wherever I can find the time. The only real way I would keep track is by keeping them all in my purse. I don't think that's a very good idea. One falls out when you pay at the grocery store or when you are in the car with your boss. Uh uh. No way. I have ADD. The chances of me keeping track of all that garbage is about as good as me keeping track of my bills or any other piece of paper. Not happening.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:14 am 
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Sorry, jackcrack. I only meant to agree with your orignial annoyance and then add my own to it.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:14 pm 
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I got to say something on this subject, because it's right on the front line for me. I'm in my 20's, Ex-semi big time drug dealer, and Ex-big time addict. I cut ties with my suppliers, but I couldn't afford to move to start a whole new life, so I still live in the same neighborhood. So I'm still in the mix of the drugs and have addicts approaching me, I just tell them I moved on, and don't hang around outside in my neighborhood. My point to this is their are people who use that know I have suboxone, and I get way more traffic approaching me then when I sold street drugs, and the people that do sell the suboxone in my neighborhood make as much if not more, and have a clientele that rivals any dope dealer. The 8mg pills go for $20 each and up. I was talking to one person who I knew from years ago, about why do you want the suboxone it's not going to get you high, and it's going to prevent the other drugs from working. This person explained to me there is a couple reasons, if their low on money they'll buy the suboxone because it keeps them from being sick long enough to make money to go buy enough dope for a week, where the same money spent on dope would get them through the day, they could get through 2 or 3 days with the suboxone because it last so long. The other main reason was the people that hide their addiction from people would get them if they knew they would have to spend a long period with people that didn't know they used or if they went to visit family, they could get through that time with out getting sick. From what I seen almost 4 years ago as a life saving drug, that stood for the opposite of being an addict, and gave me a second chance at life. Seems like it's slipping into the handbag of tools that addicts use to sneak their way through life. It's a sad thing, but now that it has a dollar value to the streets, no matter what doctors do, it will never stop everyone from supplying the streets because money has such a pull. To me it was once something I was proud to say I was on because it stood for a change of life I was trying to make, to now saying it I'm looked at as another dealer. It might some day be looked at as another methadone, but I will always look at it as what took me from a criminal life, and an overdose that almost killed me, to a person that has been clean, put crime in the past, and has lived a new life style for close to 4 years now. We need to get more of the good stories out to the public, instead of the negative, but negativity sells. I don't have answers I just know the facts I know, but something needs to be done before the dirt from the streets stains it's name, like every other drug created in the past to help has fallen.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:29 am 
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I agree, but how do you get the good stories out to the public?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:30 am 
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Like I said in my earlier post, I don't have the answer to what to do, but at least one other person sees something needs to be done to show the positivity about suboxone, before the negativity is all the public sees. Well this is a forum all about suboxone and people who know what it is, and the benefits of it. Why not start a post to idea pool what can be done. It would be nice to see doctors putting information out to the media about the success stories, even if it's local news, or news paper. The negativity sells, but a positive out come story told the right away can sell just as good. You know the person that's "bad", turning their lives around for the good, and this is how they did it. How ever the hard part is that I know I wouldn't want my information made public no matter how good, because I have a hard enough time to keep my past in the past, and I'm sure there is a lot, if not most of you who feel the same. That's why my suggestion was for doctors to come forward with facts, and anyone who was comfortable with telling about their life being changed by suboxone to encourage their doctor to come forward with facts and have them and their story as an example. Even if at 1st it's only local, it's possible for it to be picked up by national media. These are just my guesses at what to do, again I don't have much for answers, but there's some really smart people here, and were strong enough mentally to beat drugs, I think this group has the will and intelligence to formulate some type of a plan to raise suboxone awareness, and it's positivity. Someone has to start with actions, none of us like what is being put out there about suboxone, so if we don't put out positive information or at least try, we don't deserve to be mad at about what people know. It's kind of like not voting and complaining about who got elected, well if you did nothing to see the outcome you wanted, what can you really say?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:47 am 
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Jackcrack wrote:
I also find diversion fricking annoying to be honest. I'm not angry at the people taking the sub off the streets. I'm angry at the people who are being prescribed sub and who are selling it for money instead of recommending to people they get it legally. I am irritated that they are taking advantage of people. They aren't in active addiction and they have no excuses for their behavior.


That's full on. So there are people who aren't addicted to any opiate, yet they manage to find themselves legitimate scripts for buprenorphine? I'd be equally pissed at the doctors for their negligence. How can they get away with that?

I wouldn't worry about a 20/20 story wrecking it for us all though. It appears to me that RB and the FDA have a fairly close relationship that won't be easily undermined.


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