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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:26 pm 
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i have been attending the same dr for a yr and have been a perfect patient. never failed a drug test never failed a count... yet today he tells me he has to discharge me cause two months ago i was forced to take the medicare i was entitled to. i was told medicare was trying to force him to see me for $21 dollars a month. even tho ive always paid the $400 office call out of pocket. i was told that there was a law that made it illegal for him to accept my payment. that he were to only agree to accept the $21 a mo that medicare would agree to pay him. i begged to let me continue to pay. i can afford it. i think its worth it. i need it. he said he could lose his license by accepting my payment... and that i am the perfect patient. that he would keep me and take the $21 a month if it werent for the fact that he could legally only see 100 patients. that was the law. that he couldnt afford to keep the medicare patients. this makes NO sense to me. i pay out of pocket and because i was awarded my medicare i cant pay anymore. i called and no suboxone drs will take me cause i have medicare... they will not take my cash payment. this is not fair. im left to dt out and suffer with chroic pain because no pain managment dr will take me now because i was in a suboxone clinic.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:21 pm 
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I wrote a post that touched on how much this sort of thing pisses me off.

post85941.html?#p85941

I think it is criminal. I wish it was possible for the sub user community to start some kind of activist movement to get laws made that make sure everybody who needs it, has the choice of access to suboxone.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:05 pm 
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this sort of thing really frightens me. I have four children, and am divorced so I'd be considered low income and if I signed up for health ins, I'm fairly certain it would be Medicaid that I'd get. if that were to happen, I'd no longer be legally allowed to pay cash at my Dr either or my pharmacy and would be left out in the cold for my buprenorphine also. this is the reason, the only reason, that I've not yet signed up. boop is right... it's down right CRIMINAL!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:48 pm 
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You guys are scaring the hell out of me now. I just turned 60 last Friday so the Medicare problem is beginning to get closer. We need some kind of answers concerning our medication and government interference. I don't even know where to start except to ask our own Dr. Junig here.

I'll send him a message to see if he'll look into it. I can't remember if this topic has been discussed before or not. A search is in order after I post this.

So sorry Doug that you're in this situation. If we can't find a solution, everyone on Suboxone will eventually face this issue.

Stay tuned,

rule

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:50 pm 
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I just made this account because you've got me concerned now. I'm gonna be added to my girlfriends Medicaid plan because we just had our first child. I don't understand how my doctor will know I'm on Medicaid? I just pay him 180 per visit and he writes the script. Are you saying Medicaid is gonna force him to take my Medicaid insurance? He doesn't accept insurance from anybody. I'll cancel my Medicaid if I can of what you're saying is true.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:07 pm 
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Abject wrote:
I just made this account because you've got me concerned now. I'm gonna be added to my girlfriends Medicaid plan because we just had our first child. I don't understand how my doctor will know I'm on Medicaid? I just pay him 180 per visit and he writes the script. Are you saying Medicaid is gonna force him to take my Medicaid insurance? He doesn't accept insurance from anybody. I'll cancel my Medicaid if I can of what you're saying is true.

If he doesn't accept any Medicare or Medicade ins in his office for anything you should be fine.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:21 pm 
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jonella wrote:
Abject wrote:
I just made this account because you've got me concerned now. I'm gonna be added to my girlfriends Medicaid plan because we just had our first child. I don't understand how my doctor will know I'm on Medicaid? I just pay him 180 per visit and he writes the script. Are you saying Medicaid is gonna force him to take my Medicaid insurance? He doesn't accept insurance from anybody. I'll cancel my Medicaid if I can of what you're saying is true.

If he doesn't accept any Medicare or Medicade ins in his office for anything you should be fine.


Thanks. I hope you're right. And best of luck to the other people in this scary situation


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:29 pm 
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I dont know about all states but in some it isn't legally allowed for a doctor to accept cash payment for an appointment if the patient is covered by Medicaid or Medicare, same for pharmacy. that would leave the patient to find a sub doctor without a long waiting list or opiate treatment program (methadone clinic that offers bupe also) who accepts Medicaid, and very few do because Medicaid only pays a set amount. I'm not signing up for this reason, however, I'll be penalized 45 bucks a month for each month without coverage for not carrying health insurance. Dr Junig write an article about the unintended consequences of the new healthcare laws and talked about this topic at the talk zone website. scary stuff. Hope someone who knows more about this will chime in to this thread. this has been a great source of anxiety for me. it leads me ti another question as well.... suppose I get insured, but my bupe is only covered for a certain period of time, then I still can't just continue on my medication and pay cash because doctors aren't allowed to accept cash from Medicare / Medicaid covered patients? in that case, I'm still out of luck, even if I found a doctor to accept Medicaid, ugh it's very unnerving! my doctor had encouraged me to go to the website and enroll because he accepts Medicaid, buuuuut, I live in V irginia and he's in NC, so va Medicaid only covers doctors in Virginia. I'm not sure what would happen. I fill my rx in VA, so I think that would be covered, but I'm not sure what would happen. it's a shame I'm afraid of losing my life saving treatment by signing up for health insurance! I'd rather pay the penalty each month than lose my bupe!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:52 pm 
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Yes tbis system is flawed...
i pay cash. No ins. Tbe drs are telling tbe truth.
Gov ins will only pay so much. And it is against the law for them to take cash..sad state..

NAABT.ORG.. This is an advocate org that stands up for people on suboxone treatment.
They helped turn around the silly law here in w.va.that probibited any sub dr to write rx's for tbe generics that are now on tbe market. Go to there website and see. Tbere also in the middle of a sur ey that needs people. 8 questions..
Check them out. Great info there on Everything bupe.
Theres also Faces and Voices .org. they are promoting the docm "The Anonymous People" film. This film has bn having showings all over this country. You can see it on line or netflix.
I bring all of this to all my sub friends out tbere in forum land becuz im fed up too. Im tired of reading one hurtful story time an time again to what i see as a messed up system. Heathcare in the U S..

Suboxone is a lifesaver. It saved my life an i continue to move forward while taking 5MGS a day.
Overall, by reading on tbese websites, finding NAABT, DR J, and great suport bere at Suboxforum i feel stroug. That i can help others in my little corner of the world bere i the hills. Please take a moment and look .

Its a political world. We have to stand up for ourselves.
hope somebody gets something out of this. ..

This med works..its a damn shame we have these problems getting it........razor56.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:53 pm 
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"Together we stand, divided we fall..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdm_ipaHAvs


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:02 am 
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rule62 wrote:
You guys are scaring the hell out of me now. I just turned 60 last Friday so the Medicare problem is beginning to get closer. We need some kind of answers concerning our medication and government interference. I don't even know where to start except to ask our own Dr. Junig here.

I'll send him a message to see if he'll look into it. I can't remember if this topic has been discussed before or not. A search is in order after I post this.

So sorry Doug that you're in this situation. If we can't find a solution, everyone on Suboxone will eventually face this issue.

Stay tuned,

rule


Staying tuned. Thanks for getting involved, Rule. And others as well.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:14 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:45 am 
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razor55 wrote:
Yes tbis system is flawed...
i pay cash. No ins. Tbe drs are telling tbe truth.
Gov ins will only pay so much. And it is against the law for them to take cash..sad state..

NAABT.ORG.. This is an advocate org that stands up for people on suboxone treatment.
They helped turn around the silly law here in w.va.that probibited any sub dr to write rx's for tbe generics that are now on tbe market. Go to there website and see. Tbere also in the middle of a sur ey that needs people. 8 questions..
Check them out. Great info there on Everything bupe.
Theres also Faces and Voices .org. they are promoting the docm "The Anonymous People" film. This film has bn having showings all over this country. You can see it on line or netflix.
I bring all of this to all my sub friends out tbere in forum land becuz im fed up too. Im tired of reading one hurtful story time an time again to what i see as a messed up system. Heathcare in the U S..

Suboxone is a lifesaver. It saved my life an i continue to move forward while taking 5MGS a day.
Overall, by reading on tbese websites, finding NAABT, DR J, and great suport bere at Suboxforum i feel stroug. That i can help others in my little corner of the world bere i the hills. Please take a moment and look .

Its a political world. We have to stand up for ourselves.
hope somebody gets something out of this. ..

This med works..its a damn shame we have these problems getting it........razor56.


I have netflix. I'll check out the Anonymous People film, thanks for the tip, razor, and the other resources.

Suboxone has gone generic. I don't see any reason for this medication to be any less accessible than methadone for addicts, except the politics of greed. The fact things vary from state to state alone tells me there is a lobbyist influence out there, primarily pharma industry, trying to keep the over-priced gravy train rolling at all costs to society at large (yes, not just addicts. An addict on suboxone is less likely to commit other crimes to get their fix). Also, docs that make big bucks on office visits, if they had their patient limit removed, could make up some of the difference by being able to write for more patients. With some limited program exceptions, Its seems methadone right now is largely for the underclass, and people who can afford it, suboxone. Although many of those paying for suboxone treatment are barely able to afford it, and sacrifice a lot to pay for it, when its very cheap to manufacture.

EVERYBODY should have equal access (regardless of economics) to the suboxone choice, if they prefer it over being chained to a methadone clinic and having to go there for their methadone, everyday, for years. It may seem like a pipe dream, but I think it's doable. With some legal assistance (maybe some pro bono help even, from attorneys on suboxone), and all the pro suboxone forums out there joined together (site wide stickies, etc), things could change soon. People need to wake up to the fact that if others are being denied their sub meds, for whacked out laws about medicaid, etc, it could happen to them someday too for a different reason, and even if they lack compassion for others, as many sadly do, they need to understand it is still not wise to be complacent about the political side of all this, simply because "I have my medicine, and a fat wallet, why should I worry about the next poor sucker?"


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:15 am 
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Oh, I heard a blurb on public radio about heroin use going up 200% since 2011. So the demand for Suboxone will also continue to rise. I didn't catch if they meant in my state, or nationwide, but, my oh my, call me a crazed conspiracy theorist, but opium production has gone up drastically in Afghanistan - the largest producer of opium in the world - since the war on terror.

This video is about a plane that crashed in the Yucatan Peninsula of Mexico, with 4 tons of cocaine. It is very eye-opening:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oszATUJ4IRE

It was the same plane that was used by the CIA to carry "war on terror" prisoners to Guantanamo Bay (so, only 'speculation' but an Afghanistan opium/heroin connection possible too?). It is no bullshit. I did my fact checking. So it's one of those things that makes me go "hmmmmm...".


If anybody wants to do their own fact checking, this is one place to start. http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebo ... nistration

The above site's founder, Al Giordano, is very respected in the journalism field, he used to write for the Boston Phoenix, The Nation, the Evergreen Review, The Washington Post, the San Francisco Chronicle, Huffington Post, etc.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:50 am 
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Might seem to some I'm half crazy and all over the map (and there's some truth to that), with trailing off into tangents about CIA plane crashes with tons of cocaine, etc, but, there is a big picture to tie it all in that might make more sense to a reader, perhaps. Business is good for everybody though, including those at the top of the food chain in the illicit drug biz, with heroin use going up, wary of my own gov't's possible involvement (or at least a rogue element within, as I think many in various sectors of the gov't also mean well) and ties with private sector who limit supply and demand, and other moves, to keep sub costs and detox/maintenance programs high in cost (and for the most part, out of reach of the underclass), just to start.

Also I'm slightly reminded at times too, of Philip K. Dick's novel, "A Scanner Darkly".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Scanner_Darkly#Synopsis


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:11 am 
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Sometimes it seems like the government wants us on dope instead of sub. It's true that most doctors won't accept any insurance but in my area there are 2 doctors that accept insurance but not medicaid. In NYS a doctor submits a 12 page request to join an insurance & become "in network". Many doctors in NY don't participate in Medicaid. My office doesn't (not a suboxone doctor) & IF a person on Medicaid wishes to come in & pay cash we can see them. All we have to do is have them sign an "ABN" which stands for Advanced Benefit Notice. We have an ABN on every single patient because insurance company's may not pay for a test that is necessary in the doctors eyes or the ins may deny or reject part of a claim & the patient is then responsible. The Readers digest version of an ABN says..i understand & agree to pay all charges my ins doesn't pay. Then a few paragraphs down it also states that the patient understands we do not accept their insurance & have been informed BEFORE seeing the doctor that they will be responsible to payment.

If you have medicaid or medicare & are concerned I suggest you mention the ABN & if the doctor doesn't know about it he should look it up. He will be fine legally by accepting cash from you (at least in NYS).

My doctor accepts NO insurance's but i do submit the receipt to my insurance...it has gone to my "out of network deductible" but maybe in November I will get a few dollars back. So far my RX coverage has paid for the films but that was an issue in January, my doctor called & i was able to get back on the films.

If anyone wants to see the ABN to bring to their doctor I would be happy to scan it in & post it here.

We have to fight to have the same rights for our medication!

I wanted to add that many sub doc's dont have staff that understands these things. They are there basically to collect money & schedule an appointment. We can educate the doctor & hopefully clear things up.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:41 pm 
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Question.. I'm in a similar place to OP. I have no job, my family helps pay for my worthless HealthNet monthly insurance til I can find one, and started Suboxone last week. My doctor accepts medicaid for other stuff, he's a family medicine doc, but his suboxone program is cash pay ($300 first two visits, $75 monthly visit). Anyway, I just got a letter in the mail saying that my application for AHCCCS (our state's Medicare) that I applied for in January was finally approved, and now I'm on the "HealthNet Access" health plan as well as something called Mercy Medical for behavioral health...

At first it was a HUGE relief.. I've had to quit some medicines I take cuz of the cost. I haven't actually used the AHCCCS ID card yet. I plan on going to 2 separate pharmacies, CVS for my regular prescriptions which I already go to, and a local Mom and Pop pharmacy only for Suboxone... and I won't use my Medicare at the Mom and Pop pharmacy.

I mean, I still pay $160/month for HealthNet private insurance.. Medicare would make my life so much easier til I can find a job, I could actually go to doctors I need to and get care I need... but if it kicks me out of the Suboxone program then it's soo not worth it.. So would I be able to use Medicare to pay for my normal prescriptions at CVS, and do everything suboxone-related with just cash pay including getting the RX's at the Mom and Pop pharmacy, or would the doctor somehow find out about my Medicare? I'm so scared!! :( I do NOT plan on being on Medicare for very long before I can find a job, and apparently not at all if it cancels out my ability to get sub.. just a couple months at the most. I guess I just won't use it... but *sigh* I have so many things I could really use. Yearly pap smear, endocrinologist visit, dental stuff for 2 broken teeth, allergist.. I just don't wanna lose my access to the Subs that are helping me out of the place I'm in..


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:55 am 
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Spoookygirl wrote:
Question.. I'm in a similar place to OP. I have no job, my family helps pay for my worthless HealthNet monthly insurance til I can find one, and started Suboxone last week. My doctor accepts medicaid for other stuff, he's a family medicine doc, but his suboxone program is cash pay ($300 first two visits, $75 monthly visit). Anyway, I just got a letter in the mail saying that my application for AHCCCS (our state's Medicare) that I applied for in January was finally approved, and now I'm on the "HealthNet Access" health plan as well as something called Mercy Medical for behavioral health...

At first it was a HUGE relief.. I've had to quit some medicines I take cuz of the cost. I haven't actually used the AHCCCS ID card yet. I plan on going to 2 separate pharmacies, CVS for my regular prescriptions which I already go to, and a local Mom and Pop pharmacy only for Suboxone... and I won't use my Medicare at the Mom and Pop pharmacy.

I mean, I still pay $160/month for HealthNet private insurance.. Medicare would make my life so much easier til I can find a job, I could actually go to doctors I need to and get care I need... but if it kicks me out of the Suboxone program then it's soo not worth it.. So would I be able to use Medicare to pay for my normal prescriptions at CVS, and do everything suboxone-related with just cash pay including getting the RX's at the Mom and Pop pharmacy, or would the doctor somehow find out about my Medicare? I'm so scared!! :( I do NOT plan on being on Medicare for very long before I can find a job, and apparently not at all if it cancels out my ability to get sub.. just a couple months at the most. I guess I just won't use it... but *sigh* I have so many things I could really use. Yearly pap smear, endocrinologist visit, dental stuff for 2 broken teeth, allergist.. I just don't wanna lose my access to the Subs that are helping me out of the place I'm in..


You could try the mom and pop pharmacy strategy. I would investigate further though just to play it safe, as, I've heard some states are requiring all pharmacies participate in statewide computer networks. If so, maybe its to try to stop doctor shopping and use of multiple pharmacies, and/or make sure people don't accidentally have a bad drug interaction if they fill a new script at a pharmacy they normally don't use. If only the former, I imagine its just for controlled substances.

I hope you find some solution to your possible dilemma regardless of what big brother might be up to these days.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:47 am 
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This makes no sense to me. I have medicaid and almost all the suboxone drs here take it. Some MCOs (insurance companies that work for medicaid, here we have VA premier, Anthem Healthkeepers, etc) won't pay for suboxone treatment, but WILL pay the prescription.

Anyyywayy... my point being: I've been to a couple suboxone doctors. My experience: first one took insurance, but not mine. I paid cash. Second one took my insurance. My insurance stopped paying. Dr offered me the cash option. The doctor I am currently with takes my insurance, but when I first started they asked me up front "insurance or cash?".

It makes not a lick of sense to me why they couldn't do cash just because you are on insurance. Maybe its a medicare thing. I have heard of people having a hard time finding suboxone on medicare and through the VA. :( I hope you find another doctor soon.


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