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 Post subject: Suboxone for detox only?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:15 am 
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I'm new here, I'm looking around and I'm not sure where to post this question. I'm sure it has been asked a bunch but I'm just not finding the answer I'd like. Please forgive me if I am regurgitating an age old question or something.

Anyhow, l think I'm ready to get off my medication. Been on hydrocondone since 2009 about 100mg a day. I want to do a quick detox with suboxone or Subutex but do dr's even do that? Is it even possible? I really TRULY do not want to be on suboxone long term.

Does anyone have any of these experiences they can share with me? I'm going to keep searching the forum but please if you have any stories or answers I'd appreciate your share! TIA


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:17 am 
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Also, how long can you be on suboxone before getting physically dependent?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:58 am 
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I have a few questions myself,
What is your life today? Are you a well adjusted person with a brite future? How will you handle Not having an opiate in your brain?
09 is a loug time. Are you in some kind of recovery program or are you wingin it?

Your questions are easy. Yes you can detox. Yes a dr somewhere will do this. But you will have wd somewhere down that road. Maybe not a bad wd,but some. If you are looking for an easy landing it is possible.
It is the after life off opiate s that kills or brings about the negitive outcomes. Do try it if you wish but the fact remains that after a loug time on said opiates, the safe way is a year or better on Bupe. Its just what the science says.
Best of luck and,welcome to the forum !!


Razor


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:30 am 
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Razor makes excellent points. A quick detox as you call it (bear in mind the quicker the more painful) and then nothing to work with but your own opiate craving brain will be a difficult adjustment.You'll need plenty of support, perhaps frequent 12 step meetings. It's not that it can't be done. But it won't be quick and easy.

Good thoughts.

G.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:40 pm 
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Hi gingersmom,

To answer your last question, you are physically dependent (not addicted) to Suboxone once you make the transition. It is similar to methadone but called a partial agonist. (look it up) One doesn't get high from Suboxone as it was developed to use as a tool to work a patient off opiates completely.

Once you find a Suboxone certified doctor, they will tell you how to accomplish what you want. My doctor weans his patients off Suboxone within six months to a year, depending on habit. He lets me stay on it for longer because I had cancer and used it for pain. Now he is asking me to taper, which I am.

Like what was stated by razor and Godfrey, you need to look at slipping back to old habits. The use of Suboxone is concurrent with going to some kind of recovery program like NA, AA, or seeing an addiction specialist. The end goal is to be opiate free within a years time if possible. A lot of hard core addicts just cannot go w/o their Suboxone or they'd be back on whatever drug they were taking. (like myself)

Does that answer your questions? Hope so.

Welcome to our forum,

rule

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:37 pm 
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I just feel really ready to want to be done with these substances. Like close a chapter of my life.
I want to start a family now , I'm 36 so I'm really close to my last chances. I'm sick of the chase, etc etc and my liver is starting to be affected.
I don't know how I'm going to do it, either cold turkey with comfort meds or I was thinking of doing suboxone but like I mentioned before I seriously don't want to be on it long term. I just want help over the detox hump, after that I have plenty of resources with my insurance and n/a meetings on every corner but all those things are pointless if I'm still using every day.

I just read that the detox from suboxone is SOOO long and so much harder than going cold turkey. Before I found this forum most people would tell me to run far far away from suboxone.
If I can't handle the detox now, how am I going to Handle a harder detox from subs?

I'm super confused. will the suboxone help me get through the detox portion or will I still have w/d's when I stop, whether it be in two week, two months or two years?
Thanks for your responses.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:42 pm 
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Okay I feel like I babbled too much. Let me tell you what I want and if you can please tell me if I'm either living in fantasy land or if it's been done before.

I want to do a quick detox from my pills with the help of suboxone in no more than two weeks. I want to bypass most of the detox symptoms . Possible?

Have you heard of a sub doc that will work in this way with patients. If it doesn't work I can always try again but I would like to try this once if it's possible.

Thanks you!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:27 pm 
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I might start calling detox/rehab facilities in your area. Also peehaps private practice addiction psychiatrists (as opposed to clinics). I'll leave it to others to elaborate, but your premise is wrong. Bupe detox takes longer but it's not as severe.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:43 pm 
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Okay thank you for your response. I don't really need anyone proving me wrong so to speak. I get that most people stay on it longer so they have time to learn how to be sober again but for me I just want to get over the hump of detox and I'll work on staying sober during/after.
If it can't help me get through the painful acute detox process then I might as well go cold turkey. *If I can seeing as how it hasn't gone so well*

I have called a bunch of places in my area but the receptionists are not helpful at all and keep telling me I have to make a *not free* consultation with the dr. The last thing I want to do is pay $250.00 plus for them to tell me they can't do it that way or won't etc.

That's why I thought I'd ask here it's even something sub docs would do before wasting any money. My Kaiser insurance will not give those types of medications to me. Only the comfort meds or they send to detox facility that only gives comfort meds.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:43 pm 
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HI Gingersmom,

My intention wasn't to prove you wrong, just to give you what might be useful information as it seemed
you were basing your decision partly on the common but mistaken idea that subs are harder to get off of than full on opiates.

I was actually in your situation for a while, in that I was worried about being on suboxone for a long
period of time. I also called a few places to see about a suboxone aided detox, and wasn't thrilled with the lack of courtesy I received. But if this is the way you want to go you're probably going to have to keep trying to call places

My decision was to to on the subs after I realized they're actually easier to get off than opiates. I've been on for about 3 weeks and couldn't be happier. The best part is no cravings. I've already cut down from 32 to 12 mg, and will continue heading down through the next year .....then ween my way off from there.

Just to add, I think part of the problem is that subs are generally prescribed in private offices or clinics. so unless a person has the funds to pay for 3 or 4 or more days in a facility out of picket, it might be a problem as insurance might not cover.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:10 am 
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What you've read about Suboxone being harder to get off is bull. The ones who say that did not taper properly and suffered the consequence. Yes, it does last longer but the symptoms are less severe if you stop at a high dose. Don't believe even half of what you read about Suboxone outside of this forum. This is the only place you'll get completely honest information. Our library of archived topics is enormous so please peruse some of them. It isn't fair to ask us to repeat the same information over and over when it can be found here with a little work. It is your recovery, work for it. I know that sounds harsh but we get this all the time.

You are trying to do what every addict wants to do. Get off the addiction w/o any withdrawals. That's not going to happen. You dance, you pay the piper. One can't expect to abuse an addictive drug and get off scott free.

I suggest you just bite the bullet and go cold turkey if you refuse to use Suboxone the way it is intended. There are many posts here that explain how you can taper off with very little discomfort if it's done over a long time and very slowly. That's the choice you have. Suboxone can be used to help ease off a little bit but don't expect miracles.

You still haven't told us what you were using and how much. That info helps us answer your questions a bit better.

Sorry I didn't give you the answer you wanted. I hope you make the right choice and succeed in your recovery.

Rule62

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:37 am 
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I went through the boards and didn't find much on using suboxone for taper. I'm sure there's plenty of threads on long tapers from suboxone but I'm NOT interested in those threads because I'm not interested on staying on it for very long.
If you don't like the fact that I don't want to be on suboxone forever I don't know what to tell you. It's my prerogative and I'm asking for help with what I'm looking for. If you don't have any experience with what I want then can you just not answer because I don't mean to come off harsh but your attitude towards what I want isn't very helpful for a new person to this board. I really dont feel like arguing but I'm pretty sure you have a WHOLE section talking about how hard suboxone is to come off. Everyone who has a hard time coming off suboxone can't be wrong or doing it wrong. Anyway, I don't feel like arguing. If you don't want to answer my question that's fine, just skip it.

If anyone has done it the way I'm hoping to do it please feel free to answer. I will stand by, I will also come back to update once I find a Dr in my area or if I decide to go cold turkey.
Thanks :)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:38 am 
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And I'm pretty sure suboxone wasn't intended to be used in ONE way only..


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:36 am 
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gmom,

One thing you might try is calling the manufacturer. You might say you're a journalist, or
freelance writer working on a story about this relatively new drug and how it might help
with the current opiate epidemic. Freelance writer is prob. better as you won't be asked
who you work for. Maybe that sounds a little out there, but if you call as an addict their attitude
might be different....then again perhaps not. It's just that I think they'll likely be anxious to help someone
writing a positive story about their product.

You could also try to contact Dr. Junig directly. He will often answer questions like that. He's the physician
who started this forum and a better qualified expert on the subject you will not find. I suspect he might
notice this thread in any case and decide to weigh in.

Just stay persistent. You'll get your answers....

G.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:36 am 
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I used to work for a residential program that used a Suboxone detox. It was three weeks starting at 12 mg a day.
It did not work any better than just cold turkey with comfort meds. With this method people were ready to start engaging in treatment by day 4-5.
With the Suboxone taper they never really did get engaged. If they made it through the 28 days they were discharged physically and emotionally exhausted and that led to relapse. Sometimes within hours of walking out.
Why so cruel? We were at our cap, saving 6-8 slots for detox.
One of the reasons I left.
So, when I agree to induce somebody it is with the intent that they will transition to maintenance.
To answer your question there are detox facilities and practices that will do a short term detox.
Takes a lot of checking to find them.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:03 am 
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What rule responded with was word for word what I was going to say. There's no easy way out, ur going to experience withdrawal with or without the detox of suboxone. If getting off our doc with suboxone detox worked, you'd have a lot more information on it. You'll be lucky to find a detox only suboxone doctor....possibly inpatient, not outpatient....not easy...or go cold turkey which is what almost everyone has suggested. No one is trying to be mean to u, but this forum has a lot of experience with buprenorphine and ur asking us a question about buprenorphine. Even most doctors know detox with suboxone doesn't really work. We're just trying to help u understand.

Docm2, who just posted above, is a real suboxone doctor btw, I'd definitely listen to his advice.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:31 am 
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Boy, you guys are tough :D ....I'm going to try hard to stay on the good side of you all...!

Just kidding of course. I absolutely understand the frustration. You can hear the defensiveness in some
posters..."this is what I want and screw anyone who wants to try to convince me differently!" As if they're somehow owed all the help in the world...their help, their way....despite being borderline rude. So we react.

At the same time, I hear myself in many of these struggling posters as well. There was a time when I was a major jerk (I know, I know, almost impossible to believe :o ). But it was all fear and anxiety which are painful emotions to feel, and I would cover up that fear with anger.

Dunno, maybe I'm on a pink cloud all my own here. I'm just feeling so relieved to have the 500 pound monkey removed from my backside. I'll no doubt be back to my normal mean, curmudgeonly self in a few days.

I'll try to warn you all before hand :)


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