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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:38 pm 
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Hey Everyone,
Its great to have a place like this, eh.

Im on my second day of Suboxone for the withdrawal of Codeine and DXM (Dextromethorphan). My main habbits were useing either 400mg of Codeine or 600mg of DXM each night for about 6 months. I didnt go for longer than 4-5 days without a high each night. Disgusting i know, i used to withdraw each day only to repeat the cycle. I decided to quit after realizing these doses werent effecting me at all. It got to the point where i was gagging every 5-10 minutes the following day.

I am so suprised at how well the Suboxone is helping me. Even at only 8mg so far. A true life saver. It is early days i know, but i think the antidepressant effect of the Buprenorphine is a huge part of it. My use was related to Borderline Personality Disorder.

The reason for the background is to get some discussion going around the use of Suboxone for over the counter drugs like Codeine and DXM. I never thought ide be stupid enough to end up addicted to these things, i didnt realise until it was too late. "Its just over the counter stuff, it cant be that bad... Its fun for now, i'll be able to stop when i want to."

Has anyone else found themselves in the same situation with OTC drugs?
Is anyone using Suboxone for the withdrawal of Codeine or DXM?
What was your use like? What dosage of Suboxone are you finding helpful?
How do you feel about your Suboxone and dosage?
How long do you think you will take Suboxone?

Post away...


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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 1:50 am 
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Codine is not OTC where I live - but I used to drive up to BC to buy OTC codine pills back in the early days of my opiate use. We would crush them up and separate out the asprin.

Of course, my useage progressed from there pretty quickly and that's why I'm on Sub now. Codine isn't the strongest opiate but it's still addictive, so it makes sense that the Sub is helping you. God, anything that keeps you from walking around gagging all day has to be an improvement, right?

I got the antidepressant effect from Sub too. It was great!

Good luck.

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You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.

-Jack Kornfield


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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:19 am 
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In some states (like Wisconsin) it used to be set up so a person could get codeine OTC but had to sign for it-- sort of like how they now do ephedrine products. I don't know if it is still the same way or not.

A couple things about codeine-- it is converted to morphine at the liver, and different people (and different races of people) have different activities of the enzymes that do the conversion. So some people find codeine to be very helpful for pain, and others wonder why all they get is a headache! There are meds and even foods that interfere with the conversion as well-- I can't remember which enzyme off the top of my head this morning, so I won't guess...

My whole nasty addiction started with codeine cough syrup! I'm always embarrassed to admit to other addicts, when they ask what I got addicted to and I say 'codeine'-- I imagine that they are snickering that I was caught by such a 'wimpy' drug! Funny how addiction has all these different sides to it... a horrible illness that I hate to have, but also a certain 'coolness' or 'macho' aspect to it-- not something I am proud of, buy feelings that I certainly recognize inside of me. My analyst used to always say, 'it's better to know!' That 'cool' factor-- the best example for it is the scene in 'Pulp Fiction' where the guy is shooting up. My wife can't stand that scene, but I admit that even after 8 years, and after all the damage addiction has done in my life, I still find that scene 'cool'.

Twisted, yes-- but it is better to know.

Thanks for sharing, master-


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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 10:16 am 
Dont you think 8mg is a rather large dose of sub for a codine habit???? Subdoc, do you put on patients on 8 mg for the dose of codine he/she is on?

I bet 2 or at the most 4mg would be plenty of sub.... I see in my crystal ball a very difficult time coming off the sub or yet I see your doc wanting you on maintance for your habit. I see you have increased you opiate habit with such a high dose of sub.

So Subdoc, is this what you would of recomended for his habit? I have seen friends that were shooting TAR which is much stronger then the dose of codine this guy is on.. and did great with 3mgs of sub to cover the wd symptoms.... I dont know but I would think since you have such knowledge of the sub that you would suggest a lower dose IMMED of the sub. YOu know... like save this guy some pain later down the road if he/she decides to live opiate free.

WHat say you? Maybe I should come to you and get my dope... but my sub doc has provided me more then enough dope to detox all my buddies from thier HERION/ METH and oc habits... If I was to do so I culd make loads of money. But being the person I am.... I give it to them. My last buddy that I helped out was shooting about 100 bucks per day of Tar...... He came to my pad begging for help. I gave him 2mg of sub... waited for 1 hour then gave him 1mg... low and behold he was totally out of wd. Being the person I am I feared giving him the sub dope but made him come by the pad daily for his sub.... three weeks later he is off the sub, going to meetings and though he is suffereing from paws he is still clean of all dope. He may relapse, who knows. I surely hope not. But he is clean still today. Makes me feel good to see him helping other dopers on the daily basis. He dont want maintaince but to be free of dope completey.

I do think that it is a personal decission to do maintaince or just use the sub for detox. I just hate to see all these addicts switch dope. I see how Meth has done way too many folks...... I see many of my buddies die. I see all the subquacks give very high doses of sub in hopes to "keep coming back". Sorta puts a new meaning to the slogan.

May I ask what dose your on Doc? I watch you you tube on "drug for a drug" and really looks like you need to lower your dose. Eyes look very droopy. Mayb just a bad day for you?

I just read the on this forum about the nice lady who is using the desolveing the sub in water and using the dropper for dosing... sounds like a good ideal. I will give it a try. The fear is still very great after my last attempt to get off this new dope our goverment approved. Not fun at all..... I failed and went back on the dope. I am now on crumbs of the 2's ..... I will take the crumbs and try and dilute it. The depression, fog, lack of sleep, has already begun. I just am looking so forward to the paws when I do finally get off this dope. I wonder how many yrs it will be after flooding my receptors for three yrs on the sub. Maybe I should of gone the Meth route... at least we know what that will do to my body and will have more support.... many more in detox for meth then sub...

I called a place that helps you detox off sub.... strange.. they use short acting opiates to get you off sub?????/ how strange is that? I go to sub to get off dope then have to use dope to get off the sub? LORD help us addicts.

I do wish the Ibogain was legal in the good ole usa....... wish I could get 5 grand together to try it. Maybe I could sell all the extra sub to help get the bucks together but just cant seem to ask for money from fellow addicts. I just hate to see them give the bucks to an already well off doctor that really believes in the slogan "keep coming back".


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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 3:35 pm 
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Rodger - It's really good to see you posting and participating in the forum. We're hoping to make this a place where people using Suboxone to treat their addiction can find and give support to each other.

I understand your concern about 8mgs being a high dose for a codine habit, especially if you've seen friends with heavy heroin habits get well on lower doses.

My understanding is the reason for the higher doses of 8-16mgs is that the larger amount of buperenorphine 1) allows for once a day dosing and maintaining a high enough level of medication in your body so it doesn't wear off between doses. If you don't "feel sick" between doses of Sub, that helps break the response/reward cycle in your brain; ie "I feel crappy so I take a pill and feel better." The goal is to feel well all the time.

2) The higher dose covers your opiate receptors fully, making it harder to relapse because if you took a short-acting opiate you wouldn't feel any euphoria from it. At lower doses of Suboxone, under 4mgs I believe, you still have some opiate receptors open and it would be easier to get high even after taking your meds.

You wrote:

Quote:
I do think that it is a personal decission to do maintaince or just use the sub for detox. I just hate to see all these addicts switch dope. I see how Meth has done way too many folks...... I see many of my buddies die. I see all the subquacks give very high doses of sub in hopes to "keep coming back". Sorta puts a new meaning to the slogan.


Please don't make posts stating that Suboxone treatment is "switching dope", and that Sub doctors are drug pushers. Too many addicts have been shamed out of treatment or off their medication too soon because of the idea that they're just "switching addictions". Buprenorphine is an opiate, but it has a unique action in that it actually suppresses cravings. And while I'm sure there are some bad Sub doctors, I don't think many doctors intentionally overdose their patients in an effort to keep them coming back.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:51 am 
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I have a question, I get really bad cramps and use a fantastic over the counter medication that you can buy in any pharmacy in NZ/Aus, called Nurofen Plus. I've heard that you can't get Nurofen Plus in japan, so I was planning to bring some to Japan, as nothing else seems to work for me. Nurofen Plus contains codeine and is THE BEST for pain relief. However, I've now seen that codeine is apparently "illegal" in japan?
I don't think I can get a prescription from my doctor, as its an over the counter medication that anyone can just walk into a pharmacy and buy here in NZ. Does anyone know if I can bring this with me into japan or have it sent to me? Or if there is anything equally effective for pain relief that is available in Japan?I appreciate your help:)


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:59 am 
Hey Rodger - I guess i should just wait and let the doctor reply, although he's probably not going to take too kindly to you saying he's on too high of a dose since he's not even on bupe. :o

I want to second what DOQ said about how using Sub isn't "switching dope". Not only does bupe suppress cravings, but you don't build a tolerance requiring ever increasing dosages (most people tend to lower their dose over time), and most importantly, it doesn't have a eurphoric effect in anyone opiate tolerant.

Anyway, the main thing I wanted to comment on is the dangerous game of detoxing your friends with your Sub. Early on in my treatment my doc consistantly gave me 16mg/day even thought I never took more than 12. I told him I was taking 12 and that I had pills left over. He just kept writing me 16mg, because I was always telling him that I still had the urge to use, and he felt I should take more, if needed. (IMO the cravings were psychological, not physical).

The point I'm trying to get to is that I had about 15 extra pills a month. (It still kills me that other people have "pill counts" and pharmacists who won't refill if they haven even 1 pill left!). At the same time I reconnected with an old friend, who was the only person in the real world I knew who had been on Sub. Long story short, I ended up giving her some of my extras, and next thing I know she's "detoxing" some of her active addict friends with my Sub. After some pretty strong warnings and good feedback from people on this forum, I put an end to it. But even to this day she'll pop in unannounced looking for Sub (last time it was while I had relatives visiting).

The best advice I got here is don't even TELL people you're on Sub (other than your close loved ones). If you're "detoxing" your friends the least that could happen is you could get busted or kicked out of your treatment. The worst is someone could have a serious adverse reaction to bupe and you could be charged with a felony.

I guess the real bottom line is that I wish Sub were more widely available and better accepted and understood by mainstream medicine. Then we wouldn't have addicts treating other addicts, docs prescribing 32mg/day of Sub to people with a 40mg/day hydro habit, docs prescribig bupe "as needed", nurses getting fired for being in recovery and all manner of other craziness I see on this board every day.

master_shaneth, roger and all you other newcomers, welcome to the forum.
liamonas- you might want to try positng your quiestion under "international issues" - or just try looking your med up on google and see if it's sold under another name in other countries.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:39 am 
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That post from roger was from last year


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:15 pm 
Thanks junkie, I guess liamonas' post just brought it back to the top. I hate it when I waste a good rant.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:31 am 
I know this is an old post and I'm not trying to be mean but why in the hell would someone start suboxone for a 6 month codeine habit? Sounds utterly ridiculous to me. I'm not bashing anyone at all but I dont even think starting bupe is appropriate for hydrocodone use. The ONLY reason I started subs was because I was abusing poppy pod tea which is said to have a withdrawal very similar to methadone and I knew I was in for a long drawn out withdrawal. Poppy pods are very strong and the withdrawal is equally as strong. The withdrawal doesnt start until abotu 72 hours in and the longest I made it was 11 days and there was no let up in the physcial withdrawal at all. Subs were my last option otherwise I knew I'd never get clean. If I would of been abusing short acting opiates and knew Id be over the physical withdrawal in 7 or so days i would of just toughed it out. Subs were not even an option for me at first cuz of money but luckily my family stepped in and paid for my sub treatment as I probably was close to dieing as towards the end I was mixing huge amounts of pure phenazepam powder with my pod tea and they found me on a few occasions nodded out with my eyes open and thought I was dead. I guess i'm lucky to still be here.


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