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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:39 pm 
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Hey, :)

I guess medical scentists and pharmacologists discussing right now about re-dosing sub therepeuticly..If they are not, I think they should be. :!: 2 mgs is considered high dose by FDA.

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Buprenorphine (sold under the trade-names of Subutex, Suboxone (buprenorphine with naloxone) - high-dose tablets used for the treatment of addiction
(from wikipedia)

I've been on suboxone one and a half year after 8 terrible and self tortured years with opioid addiction by ruining my life. My choise form of opioids are relativly weak but it does not matter because harmful effects of addiction is not only from his pharmacological or toxicological properities. I think the most harmful side of addiction is to try to obtaining substace and turning your life's around them. So, in my opinion pshiycal side of addiction is pussycat to compare to its social effects. My 20's are not exist or I don't remember those. Lost of cariers, girlfriends, friends, harming own family. :oops:

I am 31 years old now and able to be clean with suboxone (yes. To clean is not abusing anything in my book.) at least 6 months and after 2 or 3 weeks relapse of addiction then I go back to my suboxone maintenance. My choice of form opiate is relatively week so I think I feel antagonist effects of suboxone more than some people in my relapses. :roll:

I begun with 4 mg and on second week did 8 mgs. Then 16 mgs and I don't feel comfortable or "more well-being" higher dosages. Plus more side effects like hair loss, inability easy pissing, somtimes even seizure-like effect buy mildly. :shock:

I appricciate all suboxone medical stuff and producing firm. It is a miracle drug and I can live a life with it. It's more like gift from God. But I'm angry about delayed about research, devolapment and marketing for mankind. Plus In my country 2010 is a starting year of opioid replacement therapy and preventing abuse therapy which is only options are suboxone and naltrexone. I used naltrexone but I feel deppressed and full of crave. So suboxone is better to beating up craving. But I think to full opioid replacemnet therapy should be succsess to cravings in my life like methadone therapy.

Unfortunayly methadone is illegal just like heroin in my country. I think it could be better to apply to FDA standarsd in opioid perlacement therapy which allows to expert to precribe S3,S4 and S5 drugs including benzodiazepines and weak opiates. Not just methadone and suboxone. I personally hate dose-dependant antagonist effects of suboxone which is it gets similar to naltrexone. I think always full opioid agonist more get benefit when the issue becomes adaptation of life or returning back to life from opioid addiction. Because... (in below)

In my personal opinion on the target of addiction therapy is should not be the get stop drugs somtimes. It must target with provide clear conciusness, keeping as healthy to abiltiy to judge and thinking and giving about a social life about normalizatin without abusing drugs as well as breakinig the cognitive and behaveioral chain of addiction. :x

I think it is a good sign for a country that is much libareting sosciety. In switzerland heroin is used in therapy, In America methadone and suboxone as far as I know. And in my county finally start a suboxone therapy. So, anyway... Back to the facts dose problems ar related to all those things.

I tried 8,16,4,6 mgs sometimes in a year. But I feel smaller dose is equal higher dose to suboxone doing his job. In my personal opinoin but I think th doctors and firm or FDA (whoever) is determine standard doses of suboxone as beyond its function and eith full of antagonism side effects.

I taper slowly 2 mgs a day and I am comfartable more than eny dose I used. :D

My Enghlish is not perfect but I think it is enough to tell that I intended.

I don't give a damn about politics, industry, capitalism behind addiction therapies bu it is a disease, not a crime. :twisted:

Take care...


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:44 pm 
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The reason for high doses is because of money man $$$ its all about the money..

I'm still trying to find the right dose..

It seems like 2mg twice a day i still think about shooting up alot ... which isnt good..

Its hard to find that good dose that makes you feel normal and eliminates cravings


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:44 pm 
BLAZE 8mg of Suboxone is equal to 400mg of Oxycodone. Starting patients on 24mg of Sub just doesn't make

sense to me, how about you? 24mg of Suboxone =1200mg of Oxycodone.....I am glad you are getting sober and BTW your english is superb. Keep us posted OK?


Robin


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:58 pm 
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The right dose for one person is not necessarily the right dose for another. If you don't feel well on 16, then, yes, it could be too high FOR YOU. If another person needs that 16 mg to address all of their cravings and withdrawals, then that dose is appropriate for THEM. So don't assume because you feel better at a lower dose that everyone also will or does. Oh, and because buperenorphine is often used IV in hospitals at much lower doses, the way it's used for addiction has recently been referred to as "high dose bupe" or HDP. That's just what they're calling it, that's all.

Also, there is no evidence that suboxone causes hair loss, urological problems, or seizure activity. If you personally are having such issues, I would consult a physician about that - it's either a very rare reaction to the sub or an unrelated condition, in my opinion. Or if you have something such as scientific articles, etc that provide evidence of said side effects, please provide them. We only wish to provide accurate information on this site and thus far we've never seen any such evidence.

Buprenorphine, the main ingredient in suboxone has been around for a very long time and is a very safe medication. There are ongoing studies in the US regularly, at any given time.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:01 pm 
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Maybe Hat can direct fairrobin to a post concerning using conversion charts/tables to try to find out the equivalency of sub. to a full antagonist like oxy. It doesn't work like that since sub is a partial antagonist. Thats why people need to find the correct dose to supress their cravings and withdrawals, and that can be different for everyone. p.s I am glad you are on top of the misinformation Hat, I would have mentioned something if you didn't!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:17 pm 
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My post above is supposed to read agonist, not antagonist.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:05 am 
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I wanted to add this from Dr. Junig about "conversion":

"...the problem is the non-linear kinetics of buprenorphine. You can't just extrapolate out with bupe, like you can with agonists that don't have a 'ceiling effect'.

In other words, one mg of buprenorphine is as potent as about 20 mg of methadone, 2 mg of buprenorphine is as potent as 30-40 mg of methadone, and 4 mg, 8 mg, or 24 mg of buprenorphine are all as potent as 30-40 mg of methadone! The calculator works fine as long as you use doses for buprenorphine below the 'ceiling' effect-- say down in the microgram ranges. But you cannot use those numbers to project out in a straight line-- because the potency of buprenorphine, being a 'partial agonist', doesn't follow a straight line."

(This was posted in this thread: http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=27384#27384)

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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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