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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:49 pm 
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I've been on Suboxone on and off since I was 18 years old, I am now 26 with a daughter and a wife. This time around I've been on Subs pretty much uninterrupted for the last 3 years.

I increasingly feel absolutely shitty. I'm prescribed 20mg/day some days I take 16mg, other days i take 24mg because it's a pain in the ass to divide pills in half. I've done it like this since starting back on subs 3 years ago.

Doing the trash this evening, it's getting cold again and as I'm taking out the trash I feel goosbumps, normal, then sweats! Feels like the subs just don't hold me all the time anymore, I deal with feelings like this pretty regularly, cold and sweaty.

The biggest kicker is that Suboxone used to do wonders for my mood, when I first got on it it was a wonder drug. It actually got me a little buzzed, but the ceiling effect really curbed the compulsion to redose. I would try sometimes, but it wouldn't work out, would have to get a good nights sleep, a good meal, and it would work again same as always the next day. I got so much done in the realms of school, work, social life, and accomplishments when Suboxone worked like this for me, it was amazing, it reinforced healthy behaviors like getting enough sleep and getting enough to eat because that is when it worked the best, some people in my support groups have tried to tell me it's all in my head, my wife tries to tell me that it was never meant to make me feel good and that's not its purpose, and the doctors just don't seem to believe me to the degree to which I give credit to the suboxone or they kind of shrug their shoulders at me and say "Let's try xyz new antidepressant" like there is nothing they can do for me. It's making me want to play doctor for myself again because in my mind my justification is "My meds ARE NOT working anymore, I DO NOT feel good anymore, FUCK the inside job line of thought. I AM DEFICIENT in something inside my brain. It's time to find a chemical that will work again" but no doctor will take me under their supervision to give me anything remotely addicting besides suboxone because I'm a kaiser patient and labeled an addict in my file. No doctor will prescribe me anything without first calling my addiction psych who then tells them to give me nothing stronger than basically gabapentin.

EDIT: Gabapentin used to work wonders for me, It too got me feeling noticeably different, made me feel really good and I really liked it, I told this to my doctors as well. It doesn't do that anymore, i even tried to stop taking it for 14 days and then starting again but I'm pretty sure I burnt out the part of my brain that was responsible for that, because unlike subs gabapentin has no ceiling and so I just continued to up my dose and would even ask my doctors to increase it and they would do it no questions asked because it's just not seen as "that kind of drug" but I've always been more sensitive to the effects of getting high. My first experience with opiates was half a 5mg vicodin and I felt so good. I then use and use and use and I'm not a big guy, but my tolerance gets to the point where I'm doing amounts that would kill multiple large full grown men outright. Anyway, gabapentin no longer works for me, i just take large doses to induce sleep.

Suboxone is just not holding me anymore, it doesn't give me any lift anymore, there was a distinct opiate feel to it when i first started but I would never nod out, it wasn't an incapacitating kind of high like heroin was, it was just a serene mood lift, made me less fearful, more social, and obliterated all my depression and anxiety.

So not only do I feel physical malaise like what i described earlier, but I'm getting depressed ontop of the depression, knowing if I play doctor on myself and my wife finds out I can lose my family, but I'm just so not happy and I don't feel good and no doctor will take me under their care to try new things on me so that I can present that as a defense to my wife and family if they question me. :(


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:33 am 
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So sorry that you are having such a difficult time in your life. I don't see how you could have a shortage of suboxone seeing as the long half life and the dose that you are on. I hope that others that have similar experiences can help you. I started out taking 16 mg a day. The longer I was on medication the less I needed. Eight mg was a sweet spot for me where I felt the best, although I am stable on less, currently 2 mg a day. I found counseling very helpful when I was fighting depression a few years ago. Again, hope it goes better for you going forward.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:54 pm 
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Jeandianne said it well. Let me add some more thoughts to it. Suboxone isn't supposed to make you feel uplifted, high, low, speedy, or down. Adjust your dose to where you plain don't feel it at all. Who the heck needs 20 mg's after so long?

The vast majority of us tapered down to a low amount because the medication works best in lower dosage, IMO of course. The prescribing amount is normally 8-16 mg's to stabilize a patient. Then we start to slowly taper, not feeling any discomfort whatsoever if done correctly. JD said she's on 2 mg's. I too am on the same dose and can do down even further if I wanted to. The main reason I don't is plain laziness. Cutting a 4 mg film in half is easier than trying to make it into thirds. In my first year on it I got down to 1 mg w/o any problems.

Why don't you try to cut down to a very low amount and see how you feel? If it still is bothersome then you're already tapered down so just continue going slowly until you know it's time to stop. Maybe you'll feel great at 1-2 mg's and stay on it. Who knows if you don't try?

We hope you can make a decision that works best for your well being. If it means going off it, please read all the posts you can in our Stopping Suboxone section so you have a good idea how to do it right.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:00 pm 
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Hi solvaring,

My name is Queenie. I read your post and I don't understand why you are on such a high dose of Subs.

I started on Suboxone 7 years ago. The doctor started me off on 32 mgs, then in 7 years, he tapered me down to 8mgs. Which is what I'm on now. Sub is not supposed to make you feel good or high. It's supposed to keep you from withdrawal and keep you from craving. You have got to be careful because it seems you are craving a high. Try taking less suboxone and see how you feel. Have you told your doctor how you feel? I can't help wondering why he gives you so much subs.
I wish you the best.

Love, Queenie


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:38 pm 
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I'm surprised the Suboxone made you feel "good" for as long as it did! For me any buzz I got wore thin after a couple of weeks of taking the same dose.

It does seem to me you expect too much from medication. It's almost as if you expect from Suboxone what a person wants to get from drugs of abuse. Given Suboxone no longer has that effect for you, perhaps adjusting expectation is in order. It's much easier that way than the alternative - turning to other drugs to get that same buzz.

Also it's not uncommon for people stabilised on Sub to feel more sensitive to heat and cold. There are some mornings I wake up (I'm on 16) where I feel a bit withdrawal-ey. I just consider it side-effects of long-term treatment.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:49 pm 
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I am with you 100%.
I’ve read several replies.
After over seven years on suboxone, for the first time it is not ‘working’. I am on a high dose. I am aware of this. I am on 28mg.
My psych/suboxone doc upt my dose as I deal with severe depression.
I, too, know what you mean. I was, up until just two days ago felt the energy rise. It would take from 20 minutes to 45 minutes to feel the lift.
It is NOT like the perc’s or OxyContin. It was there and I miss it. The depression is a huge load. I must say I am also on 450mg of Wellbutrin. I also take between .5 to 1.5 of clonazepam. I changed recently from Valium as I was still waking up depressed.
I was hospitalized and got ECT last year due to the depression. Because of the anti depressant properties of suboxone, my doc upt the dose.
Many will read this and have diametrically opposed opinions on this. Opinions are opinions, not right not wrong.
I’m replying to let him know there’s someone who understands what he is feeling. That is it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:19 am 
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Hello, I think when people are also dealing with severe depression you have a much different situation than those who are only dealing with addiction. No one wants to be in that darkness, and when there, you will look for anything to lift you out! You must be very smart and careful, you do not want to go back to addiction. I say find a doctor that will work with you! You need a good psychiatrist with a strong background in addiction. There are so many new medications and treatment options. I so think the idea of lowering your suboxone is a good idea. I can only speak for myself, but I started at 24mgs and am now down to 4mgs. I really only felt better with each drop! I too am lazy and have not cut my 4mgs strips in half but know that is my next move. I do not have a timeline or desire for being off suboxone. Just want to be on the least amount with the most effectiveness! I do not ever want to go back to active addiction! Hope this helps, more importantly, hope you feel better soon!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:23 pm 
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Hi

simplysassy here again.

To the moderator, first, thank you for dropping by and offering up some of your wisdom.
I did try and go down, because I heard how people feel better on lower doses.
You mentioned about dealing with depression and addiction, and that is me.
These do not make 'good bedfellows'! Probably shouldn't even be living in the same house, if you know what I mean.
But, what is happening, what I am going through is waking up to depression and not being able to shake it off, even a little bit, as I did when the suboxone was working.
This is stressing me out. Which, I know, is that last thing I need. How many times a day do I recite either or both the serenity prayer or the 3rd step prayer from A.A. Both which take me out of myself, out of my 'head', which is behind enemy lines when I go there.
I'm not sure what to do now. Well, all I can do is to wait, and hope and pray I start feeling better soon!
I am doing the do things. I exercise. I do not eat junk food.
I was busy every day for the past seven years as I was helping the pro's, take care of an aunt of mine who had been in old age homes for years. She passed on the fifth of this month.
I am trying to stay busy, not always reaching that goal. Of the last several days I have found it so much more difficult to get out of the house.
I am scared if the sub has just stopped working or this is just a bump in the road. I don't remember this happening before. My memory is still pretty lousy, as a longer last effect of my ECT from last year. A year later memory should be better.
Perhaps this is mostly a vent from fear.

I am glad I found this forum.
So, thank you


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:24 pm 
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Wow. There is so much to respond to here. I had many thoughts while reading through all of these posts.

First, to the OP, you've gotten a lot of great advice here already. Rule is right in thinking that lowering your dose might make a difference in how you are feeling. And he is also right about the fact that it's best if you don't feel anything from your dose.

The fact that you are seeking a lift from your dose is problematic. All the people, including your wife, who are telling you that the point of suboxone is not to get a lift are correct. You list the chills and sweats as proof that suboxone is not working for you anymore along with the lack of a lift. Well, chills and sweats can be a side effect of buprenorphine. The main functions of buprenorphine are to take away withdrawal symptoms and to reduce cravings for opioids.

The fact that you have never stopped seeking a "feeling" from your buprenorphine tells me that you need to do some recovery work. I suggest that you find an addiction therapist who is also well versed in depression. Many of us addicts have depression issues, and it could be why you were susceptible to opioids in the first place. It's worth it to figure out why you are an addict, what your triggers are, and ways besides medication to pull yourself out of depression. I'm not implying that it's easy to pull out of depression, just that it can happen. I would also suggest going to a SMART Recovery meeting either locally or online. It's filled with helpful suggestions based on cognitive behavioral therapy.

To Simply Sassy, I would like to say that I empathize with your depression as I have struggled with it over the past couple of years myself. Your depression, however, seems to be of the "treatment resistant" kind. Once again, buprenorphine is not supposed to be giving you a lift. The fact that it did for a while isn't usual, but I understand that losing that lifted feeling must be very difficult.

There were a few things I noted as I read through your posts, SimplySassy. First, that you may have treatment resistant depression, which I had already mention. The second thing is that you recently lost your aunt who had been part of your everyday life for several years. That is quite a blow! She was your reason for getting up every day! She gave you purpose. It is two weeks later and you are struggling. I'm so sorry, first of all. Secondly, I would like to suggest that you find some volunteer work that mirrors what you were doing with your aunt. I'm sure the facility she was in would welcome your presence and help with another elderly person. You could take someone under your wing, or you could help several people. Do you realize how important your presence was to your aunt? Her life was made so much better because she could look forward to you being there. Well, you may have lost your aunt, but there are many others who could use your care.

In fact, OP and SS, volunteering is what I suggest to people who come here who are stuck or depressed. Solvaring, what do you think of becoming a Big Brother to a kid in need? Or volunteering with the homeless? Fostering a rescue animal? Giving your life a purpose. We addicts are so inside our heads so much of the time. Focusing on ourselves so much of the time. But we have so much to offer others! We understand what it's like to be hurting, to be shamed, to feel guilt. We can put that emotional understanding to good use, while also lifting ourselves up. It's just a thought, but I have used this very idea to get myself out of depression. It can really help.

Thank you to everyone who has made such great comments on this thread!

Amy

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