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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:27 pm 
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Thanks for your post. I could only read the OP because there's way too much else to read right now.

Here's the reality. I've done both detox and maintenece and everything in between, before, and after.

Sub maintenece saved my life! But it also holds chains in me just like addiction did :( but it's chain are more financial than anything! I think it's straight BS that this program isn't free or covered under insurance. It's free for people to get dope from pain clinics and get it filled at the pharmacy for 4-16$ a month but people who turn their lives around and strive to do better by taking sub gotta pay out the arse for it! It's ridiculous. It boils down to the population and the small poor people putting money in the rich and powerfuls pockets and lining these sub doctors and pharmacy owners, and reckitt b's pockets. After about the first year on sub I believed the BS. Then reality of the financial stand on this program hit me hard. My wealthy parents helped then saw it was just like being on dope where I was demanding hundreds a month to not be sick so I could my sub. And my parents said their happy I'm clean but they said no more, no more money because it's madness. My parents told me any legit doctor would still see me without money or let me work a payment plan so that opened my eyes a lot.

I then started to have to pay for it out of my own single mother of two (living on my own supporting myself and kids) pocket!
It's crazy.... So crazy.
I can't name how many times I've withdraws for 4-12 days cold turkey cause I couldn't afford my doctors appointments or meds. It's hard when your meds are sitting at the pharmacy and you can't take them because you can't afford it, when it comes down to buying diapers or not being sick you have to choose buying diapers.
And that's what I always have to choose.

It's chaos.

My sub doc is 350 a month plus cost of meds are 400$ a month. And it breaks me if I don't want to be sick. And I can't even successfully taper like they reccomend cause I can't afford to stay on it that long. But my docs don't care and I had to be put on 3 strips a day to be stabilized. Then I had to drop a whole strip a day down to two strips a day cause I couldn't afford that extra strip. It put my health overall in jeapordy. But I'm dealing with it. And I'm gonna have to probably drop another strip and go to one strip a day. It sucks.

I've been clean over 3 years and on sub the whole time. My first year of recovery (on sub) I was pregnant. My baby wasn't born addicted. Thank God. She was my second child. I then had to be stabilized back on sub.
Because I wasn't nowhere near ready to not be.
I've been through an almost fatal car crash, a major surgery under general anethesia and a c section while on subutex and suboxone and let me tell you, it's rough.

The treatment options for people on sub are ridiculous.

Most of these doctors also won't give you a 3 day supply if you can't afford you appointment until a few days later , even thought you're under a doctors care and shouldn't have to go through this and should be allowed a few days supply or payment plan.

I offered my doc a hundred dollars before just to allow me 3 days until I got paid and he told me nope.
I then got paid 3 days later and my doc made me pay an extra 50$ because I had to reschedule. Making me up 400$ for 58 strips a month in a 28 day period. For real?!!
And this is what he calls his monthly program. But they get you with that "28" days thing. Just so they can make more $$$$.

Keep In mind I've not relapsed the whole time I've been on sub and I've always had a clean drug screen and I work a hardcore recovery program in addition to suboxone.
Suboxone doesn't keep me clean, it's just a tool and a small piece to the puzzle. Those are my own words!

Sub maintenece is a nightmare in disguise. But because I have the right intentions it's also helped me.
And since you become physically dependant on it even though your not addicted to it like other drugs you were before, you physically withdraw from it leaving you unable to just stop it. That's it's biggest downfall.

I don't know the success rate of patients taking sub in a detox setting and then leaving on no maintenece.

But I do know what it's like to be on sub in a 10-14 detox then leaving detox cold turkey and being thrown into society having to learn how to stay clean.
Needless to say I ended up at my first aa meeting 2 days later bawling my eyes out.

I think the default in this program and the as program is suboxone should be incorporated into the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous in a good way. Cause since it's not, it turns people's heads when someone comes to a meeting on sub, they get told to leave and come back when they stop the sub and are clean, even though that person has been clean for three years and on sub maintenece under a licensed sub doctor for 3 years.

It's BS, and it's wrong of aa/ NA.

Most people who are on sub maintenance work a better program than people who are not. And some people on sub maintenece have more recovery than some dry drunks and addicts with 30 years sober or clean.

That's just the truth.

I wish I mentally knew how to put into words the downfalls and ups of detox and maintenece and the difference etc. But in order to do that I'm gonna have to take a day to write to out and spend some time on it. But I'll do that and post it tomorrow or in the next few days or something.

Cause in reality there's not just detox with sub and maintenece with sub.
There's sub detox, sub maintenece, and a place in between that's a world of it's own. But real sub maintenece is years and years on sub.
The place in between is anywhere from 30 days to 6 months.

And then detox is no more than 7-10 days.

Bottom line.

I'll be back real soon to share this. In the meantime I hope my short story has given you a good perspective of what you're asking about. :)

Talk to everybody soon, with my different points of each route with sub!

Gb-
KadyRx


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:58 pm 
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I just wanted to add one more thing after reading some of the other post.

I stopped taking drugs cold turkey 3 years ago. A lot of my addiction was real mental addiction and physical dependant on the pain meds my doctors were giving me.
I don't know yet how to define it cause I'm still figuring it out and may never figure it out. So I just have to tell myself I'm an addict, bottom line. To me that's the only way to recover.

I quit my drugs cold turkey. I took my last drug right before I left to go to detox. Because I was pregnant I had to take it so I wouldn't risk miscarriage. I had just found out I was pregnant and knew I had to get clean.
I am not an evil person and would never risk a child's life a child that can't decide for themselves while in my womb so I knew when I found out I was pregnant I had to quit taking the pain pills immediately but I knew I couldn't do it alone.

So when I got to detox I was a special case cause I was pregnant and an addict and in withdrawal.
It was a long drive to my detox. I went to a private ranch on it's own acres and own zip code.

It was gated and nobody knew it was there. That's just where I went it was the only place with an open bed.

So when I got to detox I had to wait 24 hours to start sub. So here I was detoxing hard for 24 hours with a baby in my tummy. When they finally could start me on sub it was 36 hours into withdrawal.
I still withdrawed and could barely move, eat, sleep, sit, or hold still while being detoxed with sub.
I would take the sub and as soon as it dissolved I was puking my guts out. Because your still gonna experience some withdrawal even while being detoxed on sub.
But by the time I was about to leave detox I was stabilized. There's nothing that can explain it. I came off of hardcore opiate for 15 years straight with the exception of on and off for 2 years of being "dry, or clean from opiates". and when I went to detox it was my first
Time actually getting clean. So you could imagine the shock to my body, mind, emotions, and spirit.

Drugs were my bf, they were my higher power, they were my mother etc. So when I started recovery and left detox I had to learn to find another higher power, I had to learn to find another mother so I bonded with my own mother after years of not.

And I didn't date for the 14 months I was too sick mentally still and had to work on myself first.

Don't mean to get personal with it, it's just necessary to share this stuff in order to get this point across.

So here's the bottom line again, sub stabilizes a patient in detox and when they leave detox they are stabilized.
But if a person has been on sub maintenece for multiple years what stabilizes them when stopping sub? Exactly. Nothing!
That's it's other downfall. They expect you to use sub to stabilize patients in detox and then expect you to use sub to stabilize people on sub... It's odd, and quite faulty.

They also forget that addiction is a disease of the mind, body, and spirit, it's 90 percent mental and 10 percent physical.

They also forget part of being an addict is once you take a pill or drug you can't just stop at one and then the addiction starts all over again and worse.

So why do they think suboxone won't cause addicts to relapse to take more? What makes sub so special that it's the only drug in the world that addicts won't abuse? It's not special.

A person will do with sub what they want to do with it.
I have never ever be high on sub and never wanted to be, and I wanted to be clean and my goal is to live a life free of drugs and free of suboxone and all chemicals and drugs, and that's exactly what I did with it and plan to keep doing with it, I use it as a tool.

And when I mentioned "they" I meant the makers of this drug.

And one of the major downfalls I'm finding is a person can step down from sub when coming off opiates but they can't step down from sub as quickly when coming off sub. It's very confusing right!?

There's faults in everything in this world and I belive they sought out to create the perfect magic pill. But there is no magic pill. It's the the jenie from alladin (the Disney movie) when alladin made the 3 wishes they came true but the wishes also had downfalls, he lost jasmine etc. And eventually had to end up reversing his wishes.

Well subs a lot like that.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:03 am 
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Kady

I feel for you and your situation. There should be a better way but for now there aren't many doctors that take insurance for sub treatment or many doctors that care more about the person than the money. It's sad but honestly. there are other health issues (unrelated to addiction) that could help a patient but the insurance denies it.

Would your parents understand if you printed out more information about people doing well on suboxone and often a person will taper because they are ready but to be forced off often ends in a major relapse? Or print out something from Dr J's blog that will educate your parents a bit so they will continue to pay or at least help pay for your treatment?

There is a little mom & pop pharmacy that opened about 4 years ago across the street from my office. In the beginning he was barely making end's meet. Shortly after he met a sub doctor at a Chamber meeting and he was asked to stock sub so the Sub doc could send his patients there. The pharmacist agrees then a sub doc opens up in my building across the street and sends his patients there. Now the small pharmacy is the "go to" for sub and the pharmacist is driving a lexis with vanity plates. My point is that it is about MONEY and i hate that.

Can you try to talk to your parents and have them help you a while longer? While they help you maybe you can PM Dr J here to see if he has ideas and also do a search to see if any doctors near you take your insurance.

Hopefully others will pop in with ideas for you also. Don't give up hope!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:56 am 
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Hi Kady,

The anger you have toward the doctors and makers of suboxone comes through very strongly in your posts. I get it, I know that the whole situation can be frustrating, but there are ways to make it work for you.

First of all, I think a good place to start would be to try to get your dose down to 8mg per day. Taking anything above the ceiling level of bupe is just not necessary, especially 3 years into treatment. Do some research about the ceiling effect and you will begin to understand why you are spending money that isn't necessary each month. You could essentially cut your cost for meds down by half if you could make this small adjustment.

Also, I wonder if you could find another doctor that would allow you to have your visits spaced further apart. It's not unheard of for doctors to take their patients that are well established in their recovery and let them come in only ever 3 months. Do some checking around and see if you can find someone like this in your area. Even if you had to drive much further it would save you tons of money at the end of the day.

I know the insurance situation is very difficult for some people. But, there are many companies that will cover the prescription cost or a large percentage of it. Have you checked into possibly finding a better insurance company? If not, then some of the newer brands of buprenorphine are much more cost effective for patients paying cash for their meds. I believe the makers of zubsolv just put out a new coupon that saves cash customers quite a bit of money. Most doctors will have no problems writing for this med over suboxone as it still includes the naloxone. One of our Mods, Razor, just posted something about this discount card recently.

I understand that some of the things I mentioned may be easier said than done. I'm just trying to offer up some ideas for you. The bottom line is that I believe there are some good changes coming down the pike for patients on bupe based maintenance. Things are starting to change, slowly but surely. It will take time, but I think the medical community is starting to get the message.

Q

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:17 pm 
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Hello Lady :)

Well I feel like there's certain points I can relate to ur opinions on this subject, even though I consider this medication a complete lifesaver. I too have to pay 350 once a month plus my medicine which is 42 strips a month. I go to a clinic where u have strict rules and strict rules on ur payment. I go once a month, which is the most time allowed and if I don't go monthly, I get no medicine. If I get 10 dollars behind, they won't give me but a weeks worth of meds until I have a 0 balance. It does make me mad how these places are all about the money. I too am a single mother and have 3 children. My children have insurance but I do not so I pay cash for everything. But honestly even though I don't agree with how expensive the clinic is, I look at it as I just have no choice and if I wanna live a good life, this is what I have to do. So I try not to think about the negative too much or I'll go kinda kookoo. I have been doing this for 3 yrs and never had a bad urine screen or ever missed a counseling session. I wish I could see a doctor in an office that would work on a personal level with me but unfortunately in my area, there's a lot of clinics and no Dr on his own that does this program....I live in a small town.

I went to detox after detox, went to rehab and stayed the whole time and did what I was supposed to. After rehab I did NA and step work and stayed clean for 6 months. But I was miserable, deep depression, worthless in functioning in life and not mentally there for my kids. I couldn't get rid of craving to save my life so I finally relapsed and relapsed hard. Jail, steeling, fighting, lost my beautiful home and cars...u name it and I went through hell. So suboxone is the only thing that has ever helped me. I think that's why I try to avoid the negative cause I'm just so thankful to live again. But I do see ur point on the expense and it being unfair to ppl with no insurance. Oh and my rehab and detoxes never offered sub treatment unfortunately cause if they had I may have been able to keep all the things I lost during my relapse.

I didn't become actively in addiction until I was 30 yrs old and after I'd had my children. So I had a great life until then so I think I'm a perfect example of someone that should be offered lifelong treatment since I literally tried everything else. Unfortunately I'm about the only one who feels like this in my area. And I don't know if financially I'd be able to do it forever so that is an issue that's unfair. If its proven sub treatment works then why make it so dang expensive, its not fair.

I'll stop rambling now lol. I just wanna say a lot of this stuff is unfair and I try to overlook it cause they won't change for me and I truly fear the day I have to stop. But for now, I'm gonna stay aboard the thankful boat (sorry...lol watching the new kids on the block rock the boat show so I used a boat metaphor).

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:19 pm 
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Omg in my post I meant hello Kady..... autocorrect, I'm on my phone, sorry about that.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:04 pm 
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jennjenn wrote:
(sorry...lol watching the new kids on the block rock the boat show so I used a boat metaphor).



:lol: :lol: NKOTB!!!!

Wow, I was such a super fan of them when they first came out....I was so upset when they fell out of popularity and I had to take down my Donnie poster and stop wearing my pink New Kids watch!

Geez, I was such a geek! :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:24 pm 
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Great comments but just thought I'd point out that this post by Kady is a year old. It's a bit confusing because it's EXATLY a year old having been posted january 28 --- 2014 --- again good comments but not sure if Kady is still around or in the same situation.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:39 pm 
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Ur right! It came up as a new post so I didn't check Kady's original post date so......oh well still a good topic cause expense and everything has not changed in the yr between posts, so maybe it'll help someone.Oh and Q, NKOTB was my childhood lol!! Did u know they are bk together and they do a cruise every yr with 3,000 of their fans?? IIt's also documented on a channel called pop. That's the show I was watching. My love was Joey Joe :) my bff bk in the day was a Donnie girl like u. Donnie actually produces the show...it's called Rock this Boat. Just really cool to have some of those feelings come bk seeing em perform. U should check it out. Only a true Blockhead like us can appreciate it :) :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:02 pm 
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Crap, I can't believe I missed that Donh. It's all Tiki's fault!!!!!!!! I can't believe she posted on such an old thread on the exact same date. Gah.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

@JennJenn - I've seen the ad's for that show but haven't caught it yet. I'm not sure I can appreciate them the same way I did when I was 12. :D But I do still catch myself singing along when a song comes on the radio. Step by step, ooooh baby.

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