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 Post subject: Suboxone Day 3
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:45 pm 
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Hello. Just a quick background on me and my use. I'm a 28 year old male from Indy and just switched to suboxone from merhadone. I was in MMT for 3 years. My highest dose level was 50mg for about the first 3 months then went down between 27-35 mg for the rest of my time there. I would occasionally go up and down a few mg. when I made the jump to subs my dose was 35mg.

The induction itself seem to go fine. Took my last dose Saturday at 4:30am and took my first sub at 3pm Monday. I was scoring 24 on the Cows and felt it was safe to induct which it was because I didn't get worse. My DR prescribed me 8mg in the am and 4mg in the pm. He prescribed me hydroxyzine Pam and baclofen to take for the first couple weeks.

I'm having some issues currently. I know I'm not going to get that reward (high/buzz) like I did from merhadone which is why I decided to switch. But I feel like I have the flu without the nausea. My joints ache, especially my neck, RLS especially at night, and I can't sleep to save my life.

Any ideas on why I'm still feeling not well? Is it just going to take a couple weeks to get stable? Any input would help.


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 Post subject: Re: Suboxone Day 3
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:08 pm 
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Hi and welcome to the forum,

I too was taking methadone for a little bit before i switched over to Suboxone. I wasn't taking as much as you so I really didn't feel too much of a difference. i was on 20mg of methadone and only for a small amount of time before i switched to Subs.

I did feel some with-drawls at the beginning. Like the hot cold sweats but over the next few weeks things leveled out and I felt "normal" again.

I think it is fairly normal to have some withdrawls when switching over from methadone to subs. I mean Methadone was a lot stronger in my opinion. But at least you got down to a lower amount before you made the switch.

Give yourself a little bit of time and try to be patient. you are on a good amount of subs right now so you should be leveling out soon. I would def give it a chance to get into your system. And check in again in the next couple weeks to see how you feel.

Good luck with everything!


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 Post subject: Re: Suboxone Day 3
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:31 pm 
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raudy1975 wrote:
Hi and welcome to the forum,

I too was taking methadone for a little bit before i switched over to Suboxone. I wasn't taking as much as you so I really didn't feel too much of a difference. i was on 20mg of methadone and only for a small amount of time before i switched to Subs.

I did feel some with-drawls at the beginning. Like the hot cold sweats but over the next few weeks things leveled out and I felt "normal" again.

I think it is fairly normal to have some withdrawls when switching over from methadone to subs. I mean Methadone was a lot stronger in my opinion. But at least you got down to a lower amount before you made the switch.

Give yourself a little bit of time and try to be patient. you are on a good amount of subs right now so you should be leveling out soon. I would def give it a chance to get into your system. And check in again in the next couple weeks to see how you feel.

Good luck with everything!


From your experience, does 12mg seem like to much? He emailed me today to ask how I was doing and told him what was going on. He told me to up my dose by 4mg. So 1 strip in am and pm. From what I've gathered on here, this seems high.


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 Post subject: Re: Suboxone Day 3
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:00 pm 
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Hey Indy,
Imo your dr hears wd simptoms coming from you. More bupe may be needed to overide the methadone wd faster.
16 mgs is on the higher end these days but does not mean it is wroug. Dosages of 24 mgs and higher were the norm not that loug ago.
You could stay at 12mgs, but this could slow down that Normal feeling we all have and get. As Raudy said your system still needs to flush out all that methadone. My words not exactly hers.
And in the following weeks or months you can taper back off the 16 mgs to 12 easy. Even down to 8mgs painlessly. That is down the road a ways though.
Glad your switch is going well. Try the extra for a few days if your really uncomfortable now.

Just my 2 cents...good luck....


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 Post subject: Re: Suboxone Day 3
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:05 pm 
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Good advice all around. Switching from methadone to buprenorphine is always difficult. The effects of buprenorphine peak at a tolerance level about equal to 40 mg methadone-- so you shouldn't have to deal with changes in tolerance. But just having methadone in your body causes problems when you take buprenorphine. I don't think anyone knows exactly why-- but as I think Razor said, the thought is that buprenorphine is displacing methadone from receptors... and that creates some degree of discomfort.

Usually, I try to get people on methadone to use anything else for a week or too... as the conversion from other opioids is much easier. But many times, there just isn't much you can do. In those cases, I don't really think that increasing your dose of buprenorphine will help... but on the other hand, I don't think it will hurt anything either. I think you will just have to deal with a week of low-grade withdrawal symptoms. The main thing to remember--- if you use any opioids, the process will only last longer, and increase in intensity. The BEST thing you can do is keep taking your dose of buprenorphine, about 16 mg once per day.... or 8 mg twice per day.

It WILL get better-- and I think you will appreciate the change to buprenorphine. Let us know how your're doing!


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 Post subject: Re: Suboxone Day 3
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:04 am 
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Thanks everyone for the advice. Slept good last night, today I'm feeling better than yesterday. I do get random hot flashes and urges. Just gonna take time I guess getting use to feeling normal, not buzzed all day on methadone. Thanks again


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 Post subject: Re: Suboxone Day 3
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:10 am 
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Hello indy,

I was inducted on 12mgs too so it seems to be fairly normal to induce at that amount. 16mg should be ok too if you think you need it.

I remember when i first started out i would take 1-8mg in the morning and 1/2 in the afternoon and that seemed to be ok after a week or two. Sometimes i felt like i needed 16mg but I knew that was in my head. Just mental cravings not physical.

I am truly happy that I did make the switch from Methadone to suboxone. While i was taking methadone, i had problems sleeping because i still felt "high". Where as subs, I was able to sleep just fine and i felt more "normal" like a regular person. No highs but a person that doesn't have cravings.. just felt like a" non -addict"

Glad things are going better for you today.

Keep pushing thru. The discomfort will pass and you WILL level out soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Suboxone Day 3
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:24 am 
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Well my legs don't really ache anymore but I'm having a couple issues that I could use some advice on. When I take my sub, like an hr later my heart is racing and it's like this for a good hr. Also, for the first time in over 3 years I'm having really bad cravings, I never once had cravings on methadone. Will this go away with time? Should I consider going back to methadone. Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Suboxone Day 3
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:35 am 
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It doesn't sound like sub is covering all of your receptors yet. It seems that what happens when a methadone person switches to suboxone is that there is enough methadone left to compete with the suboxone. So you're in a state of limbo for a week or two, not quite enjoying the full benefits of sub while also losing the benefits of methadone. I think it looks a little different for each individual making the switch.

If you would really like to try sub I would give it two to three weeks to be able to let the sub fully do its work. If you're not getting significantly better by then, talk to your doctor about what you should do. Give the suboxone a chance to work before going back to methadone. You've come this far, after all. If it doesn't end up working for you then you know that you can go back to methadone.

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: Suboxone Day 3
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:18 am 
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hi


if I told my doc (who is highly respected in the sub field) what you are saying and feeling, he would up my dose. He says that suboxone should pretty much cut out all cravings; physical and mental. Of course there is the habit of old using thoughts but in his opinion, if your thanking about using throughout the day, then your does is not high enough. Once you get to a stable dose, you can then cut down bit by bit.
Im not a doctor but jus saying, that's what my doc would do. At 18mg I was still having mental cravings daily so he bumped me up to 24. I don't think about or crave anymore at all. In fact, I have nearly forgotten to take my sub a day or two. He says I don't need to be on 34 for long, just month or so to get me through the dangerous beginning. Whats the point of it if its not doing its job properly?
I worry that if you wait it out for 2 weeks you may relapse or go back to methadone without knowing the real life saving gift of effective suboxone.
Good luck


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 Post subject: Re: Suboxone Day 3
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:30 am 
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Well I'm still feeling my heart beat like crazy, feel like I'm gonna puke for a couple hours after dosing and crazy headaches. Plus still craving. My dr thinks I may be allergic to the naloxone and said he will switch to subutex on the 26th. Will this really make that big of a difference. I'm almost ready to call it quits and go back


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 Post subject: Re: Suboxone Day 3
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:54 pm 
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Hey Indi,
Hang in there. Its only been a week, right? People who do the switch do have issues the first two weeks or so.

In the end you still will be better off imo. Your taking 12 mgs I think thats what I read. That is a sizable dose. The Buprenorphine will win out over time.

No, there is a true "reward" with sub, but you will feel better and normal after your stable.
What does bother me from here are your cravings still. Will your Dr up your dose to 16mgs? The cravings need to go!!
More time and a dose adjustment would help you. ..just my 2 cents. If after a few weeks sub isn't doing it for you, maybe think about Methadone again. .


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