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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:50 am 
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Somone mentioned in another thread there was a class action lawsuit filed against suboxone...

I can find nothing online about a class action lawsuit against Rickett for suboxone... though it wouldn't surprise me if one was or will be filed by an ambitious law firm. I think a dr would be more exposed for prescribing than the mfg. I was an insurance litigation examiner for yrs and never saw a malpractice lawsuit where a patient claimed addiction damages from being prescribed a narcotic. That doesn't mean there hasn't been any because I'm sure there has... but this isn't the kind of case either side wants to argue in front of a jury. Therefore, I believe most cases [with merit] have been settled out.

It's always difficult to prove malpractice mainly because practicing dr's and hospitals cover each other as best they can and generally speaking... one must prove a deviation from an accepted standard of care that results in damage, in order to collect. Damages is usually the deciding factor on whether or not most plantiff attorneys will get interested and commit to a case.... and a trial attorney knows he must get sympathy from a jury to get a high award... which would be difficult when he is representing a drug addict.... and the only damage is the addiction itself.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:20 pm 
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I look as well and could find nothing to substantiate that allegation. The only thing I found was a lawsuit against a doctor who happened to prescribe suboxone. All I found were similar allegations, but no sources, no citations, just unsubstantiated claims of a lawsuit.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:58 pm 
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There is a class action lawsuit against Reckitt, but it has nothing to do with harm from the drug-- it is over the marketing tactics used to suppress generic competition-- i.e. R.B.'s attempt to get the FDA to ban tablets.

In regard to tooth decay, good luck! I guess that my 100 patients with good teeth are just taking it wrong... But it's always good to see that opportunism is alive and well....

I presume you've done a literature search on the issue? I'd put your chances at about...

zero.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:22 pm 
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I have been on this garbage years. It's worse coming coming off any off the drugs that I have ever been addicted to.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:42 pm 
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Hello mwl, Welcome! I am sorry that your experience with suboxone has been a negative one. I can tell you that most here find suboxone to have been life saving. I myself find that it has helped me with addiction to tramadol, depression, and pain associated with osteoarthritis. I can tell you that the anxiety and depression that I experienced withdrawling from trams was God awful! I have heard that the synthetic narcotics are very difficult to kick. You can sure prove that true by me! Anyway, I have tapered down to 6mgs a day from 24. So far, this has been very easy although I have been told that it does get tricky when you get down to two. I plan to go very slowly and wean myself off. But, there is no pressure! If I can not do it, then so be it. I really do not care! As long as I am not spending the rent money, or skimming off the top of a script that is not mine, I will consider myself a success! I hope you stick around and get to know us! There are many wonderful, supportive people here who will respect you and your personal journey as long as you are not here to bash suboxone or anyone who is taking it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:50 pm 
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Really MWL,
Well this "garbage " is saving your life. And mine, and others on this forum. Plenty of people owe there very lives to this medication.
It beats herion. It beats pills and better yet it gives thoses that are stable a chance to live and work a recovery program .
Sorry you feel that Buprenorphine is just another drug. But I do not know of a better safer way to stay clean off opiates.

As far as WD, people taper, it takes work and a full program of recovery to do but others have done it with success.

Gratitude beats disparation any day.....


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:45 am 
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suboxdoc wrote:
There is a class action lawsuit against Reckitt, but it has nothing to do with harm from the drug-- it is over the marketing tactics used to suppress generic competition-- i.e. R.B.'s attempt to get the FDA to ban tablets.

In regard to tooth decay, good luck! I guess that my 100 patients with good teeth are just taking it wrong... But it's always good to see that opportunism is alive and well....

I presume you've done a literature search on the issue? I'd put your chances at about...

zero.


Suboxone actually does cause tooth decay. Opioids and even partial agonists like Suboxone dehydrate your body -resulting in constipation and dry eyes- which goes for your mouth as well, and, long term decreased saliva production leads to tooth decay. Not every patient is the same so not every patient will experience this symptom to the same degree on the same timeline but it absolutely happens. My own doctor has recommended dry mouth lozenges specifically to help counteract this effect and my dentist has done the same thing. The longer a patient is on Suboxone the greater the chances they will get tooth decay. It has absolutely nothing to do with "the way" a patient takes it and everything to do with the effect that the medication has on the human body.

It's the same reason long term opioid patients and heroin users have tooth decay and the reason the Fentanyl lollipops were a terrible idea. Just because you're a doctor doesn't mean you know EVERYTHING there is to know about this medication and you shouldn't dismiss someone's symptoms just because you haven't personally seen them.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:00 pm 
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Hi, and welcome to the forum Grateful Mommy. It looks like you just joined us so I know everyone would like to hear your story and experiences. Consider posting more about yourself in the introduction section or start a new thread if you would like. I see that this one is several years old so people will have a better chance of seeing your story in a new thread. Either way, welcome!

I just wanted to point out that many, many medications cause or exacerbate Xerostomia, the clinical term for "dry mouth" (I've always wanted to use that word and have never had a good reason too, so thanks!). I know this from experience and many different dental specialties and thousands of dollars of dental work.

Every dental professional I have have ever seen has explained the connection between medications and dry mouth, and how dry mouth is the mortal enemy of all things dental related. It's also not just medications, but coffee, tea, soda, cigarettes, etc. Even the dreaded "Meth Mouth" has little to do with meth itself and everything to do with how dry it makes your mouth.

My point, as you can probably see is that Suboxone, like many other medications most likely contributes to dry mouth. If you take other medications or have other habits, they also contribute to dry mouth. Dry mouth is a huge contributor to tooth decay. And it is very important to keep your mouth moisturized. I use Biotene and it really helps.
So, Suboxone, contributes in an indirect way to tooth decay, one could argue.

I believe what Dr J is referring to is people claiming that the actual substance Causes tooth decay, and that is very different. There is no evidence for that as far as I know. The Dr is always willing to review real reasearch (such as research article reviews), not anecdotal evidence such as "all my friends on Suboxone have cavities". The Dr and other forum members may change their views based on evidence, but not on angry Suboxone users who blame the medication for everything wrong with their life( not referring to you- referring to other posters). I did not provide any references for the information I provided, I could do that if people want it, but it's really not controversial information.

Finally, Dr Junig did create this forum and provides an incredible amount of information and help regarding Suboxone and addiction. So please keep this in mind when addressing him in the future. It is fine to disagree and even better to provide new information for the benefit of everyone, but just keep it respectful. All the best.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:36 pm 
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Tragicom u said that perfectly! I honestly can't add anything else, thank u!

I don't think Dr. Junig claims to 'know everything'. It just gets difficult sometimes to constantly see suboxone blamed for so many different things, so it can get heated at times. Dr J founded this forum so that we all have a voice, and he deserves our respect.

I have to just say this, I don't think suboxone directly causes teeth issues, but if it did and I knew it did for sure, I would still have taken it because the alternative to active addiction is much worse. That's how I always look at side effects. Even if it causes certain side effects, I'd take it anyway.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:47 pm 
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Great post Tragicom. Agree completely.

You imply dehydration is the issue: 'and the reason the Fentanyl lollipops were a terrible idea'
Its not the fentanyl causing dehydration, its the sugar w all its damage that causes decay. The actiq fentanyl lolipops are FULL of sugar. Applying high amts of sugar against the periodontal gum area for prolonged periods of time, can quickly result in severe tooth decay and tooth loss.

I would think opiate induced constipation would INCREASE hydration as slowed transit allows the body to pull more water out of the gut lumen and into circulation. Rapid transit aka diarrhea = much more fluid loss. aka the 'runs'.

Seems to be trying to make connections where there might not be any.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:27 pm 
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It's always a point of great interest how people complain so bitterly about buprenorphine, the very drug that's keeping them safe. But there's a simple fix for that as Dr. J likes to say.. Just go back to your DOC.

Regarding supposed opiate induced dehydration. Another simple fix for those concerned. Drink lots of water.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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