It is currently Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:15 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:14 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:02 pm
Posts: 1002
Just curious. How much do you guys think Suboxone's "blockade" effect of other opioids is a factor in your continuing recovery? Do you ever get cravings, but don't indulge them because you know that using would be a waste of time?

If Suboxone didn't have any blockade effect, would you be any more tempted to lapse?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:35 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:12 am
Posts: 565
Location: in front of my laptop
[font=Comic Sans MS]My first and immediate response to this question was.....Absolutely.

Then as I thought more about it, I just dont think that i would want to mess up all that i have accomplished so far. But I do have to be honest in saying that it has crossed my mind to use. And I didn't because of the blocking effect. I mean that this isn't the only reaon that i didn't use, but it defnitely contributed to it.

I do hope that one day, I wont think about it at all....but I don't think that I'll ever be that lucky. Good question![/font]

_________________
"All great changes are preceded by chaos."
~Deepak Chopra


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:43 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:39 am
Posts: 4028
Location: Sitting at my computer
The entire time I was on Suboxone, I believed 100% that using any kind of opiates would be a complete waste of time and money, so I never did try to use while on Suboxone. The fact that Suboxone blocks other opiates certainly helped me stay clean while on Suboxone.

I honestly don't remember having any cravings for opiates either. I think the fact that I was so convinced that Suboxone would block any opiate effect helped to kill any cravings I would have had?

Your last question asks what would happen if Suboxone didn't have any blocking effect.....Hmmmm......that's a toughie. I think I would have been more prone to try and use.

_________________
Be kind to yourself. Our character defects do NOT define who we are!


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:28 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:02 pm
Posts: 1002
Reason I say it is that last time I reduced to 8mg (4mg morning / 4mg evening) ... I ended up using, and there was minimal if any blockade. I'd left about 12 hours since my dose of Sub. Now I'm back on 8mg, the thought has been creeping into my mind, especially during the evening before my next dose. A couple of times I've had the phone in one hand, and my 2 2mg Sub films in the other ... thinking ... hmmmm ... then "nahhh" ... then Sub in mouth.

Weird thing is I don't know how much of this is the knowledge that my blockade is diminished ... or whether it's just because I have less Sub in me staving my cravings. Who knows. All I know is I haven't used yet. If anything it's been eye opening.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:18 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:39 am
Posts: 4028
Location: Sitting at my computer
Hey TJ,

I don't mean to sound like an ass, but how much longer are you gonna continue to roll the dice and hope you don't use? If 8mg of Suboxone isn't working for you, then maybe you should go back up?

I know you're trying to lower your dose and you're seeing how you do with cravings, I just don't want you to push it too far, too fast and end up fucking up.

Just an outside perspective for ya.

_________________
Be kind to yourself. Our character defects do NOT define who we are!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:30 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:02 pm
Posts: 1002
If I can't stick on 8mg without using, I'll never get off this stuff. For now I'm looking forward. The couple of times I felt tempted were in the few days after I reduced and when I was getting some mild withdrawal stuff happening. Now I actually feel like I've stabilised somewhat, the feelings haven't returned. So for now I'm looking forward. Should shit happen then I'll definitely raise but if I managed to stave them off while I was feeling a bit Sub-sick it should be easier now.

I'm just amazed that I've managed to stabilise on 8mg this time. I don't know if it's because I absorb more with the film, but now I'm waking up without kickin my legs around... (hard to say being the most outspoken film critic around).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:41 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:41 pm
Posts: 207
I used to do real strong dope after only 4 hours after subs but I was only on 2 mg. I could feel it but not all the way. And the suckiest part was that you had to wait 12-24 before using sub. And after 1 hour of the dope I already wanted more cuz it wasn't doing it. Total, total waste of money and resources. Well.. not entirely, I could feel the dope, but for as much money as I spent, it was not worth it. I would much rather do an additional 2 mg of subs than dope. It took me a long time to learn. I am telling you, you get way more bang for your buck with subs. You are right, after you get used to a particular dose, that u went to 8 mg, especially that high, you shouldn't get cravings anymore. When I was not tapering, when I was stabalized on subs, I never ever ever thoguht about using any other opiate. Because I was opiated-out enough. And you are too. Your body just had to adjust to the new dose. Maybe try cutting your dose into 3 times a day instead of 2. For me 4-6 hours after dosing is when I start feeling it haven worn off.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:42 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:41 pm
Posts: 207
12-24 hours*** i meant to type above. it wouldn't let me edit


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:29 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:48 pm
Posts: 1346
Location: oregon coast
The fact that suboxone has the 'blocking effect' is a HUGE detterent for ME.

I dont know why, but there are times, where Ive run everything thru my head of how I could 'get away with it'
and then, BAM, it hits me, Id have to 'plan' a relapse at least a week in advance,

Like Kelly said, there's been far more times that it was ONE of the reasons(one of many) I didnt use, but its been the
"last resort" reason , a time or two as well.

Thats all I have to say :wink:

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:44 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:02 pm
Posts: 1002
Weird thing is man in the times I did use while on Sub it went like this. Took my morning dose, felt it wearing off in the evening. Started to crave a bit, then used ... usually about 7pm... Then I'd have my Sub the next morning with no ill effects, no PW. However over the next 2-3 days I'd feel some mild withdrawals, usually with evening of day 2 having a sweaty night's sleep (you know that yucky sweat smell associated with drugs?). That was even after one use. I'm unsure how much of that was genuine opioid withdrawal or just my body pushing out the toxins, but it was definitely there.

Anyway I used to do that a lot and possibly only experienced PW effects once, but even then they were mild. I used to be wary that if the heroin had a strong effect on me, I'd extend the window til my next dose to 16 hours after using instead of 12.

Anyway, the idea of doing that now as I sit here, has no appeal. How much of that is because of Sub helping, or because of my growth ... I don't know.

Brings up another question kinda tied into this. How much do we attribute our being clean to Suboxone, and how much of it's because of our hard work? If we can't stay clean without Sub, then isn't Suboxone the reason I'm clean?

For me I'd say no, because in the past Suboxone hasn't been enough to keep me clean at all. I'd barely last a month on it before going "fuck it" and getting myself booted off the program. First time I was on Subutex I was 18 years old, around 2001. And Sub couldn't keep me clean then. It got in the way of me getting high. For me, it's because of the years of rehabs and 12-step meetings and bona fide attempts to stay clean, which likely added up to 2 or 3 years of accumulated clean time .... that's allowed me to stay on Suboxone without relapsing. Sometimes I do wonder whether I need Suboxone because of all that work I did and the clean time I managed to scrape together, but if I can't get 12 months without using on Sub then chances are I wouldn't do that well without it. Then again, I'm not doing any meetings, or involved with a counsellor, or doing much of what I did to stay off heroin that I did when I was 100% opioid free. Maybe I'm leaning on Suboxone too much?

As much as I bash NA, the people in those rooms are evidence enough that the program works. In general, I've found the people on Sub in the rooms manage to get by on lower doses of Sub. I know when the time comes that I genuinely choose to taper, I'll give the rooms another try.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:06 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 am
Posts: 4133
When pondering this question, how much is sub and how much is our hard work, I can't help but think of the very beginning when I was induced. The truth is, before sub vs. after sub, for me, was like night and day. Before I started sub, I was just like any addict, obsessed with my next high. Within 24 hours of taking sub, not only was I feeling "normal", but I was already forgetting to obsess. The cravings were gone. And now, I'm tapering pretty well. Taking it slow, but I am tapering. I was never able to do that before I was on sub.

That's why, to me, sub is a miracle drug. Not a perfect drug, but a miracle drug.

However, as I'm tapering, the hard work is definitely coming into play. The work I've done with a therapist and the information I've gotten here is coming into play more and more.

Amy

_________________
Done is better than perfect!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
cron
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group