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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:58 pm 
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Good day dear members,
I was an active member of another site for almost s year, but out of nowhere , my password became "invalid", and resetting it was impossible because "email was not found".. It made me very upset. I won't go back there again even though I have met great people on that forum that worry about and care for me...

It's going to be a long story so, thank you in advance for reading. I hope I'm posting it in the right place:(

I quit oxy almost s year ago using Subooxone (Roberts method, don't know if it's mentioned here), and did ok. Not great but ok. After I stopped subs I took tramsdol for depression which eventually lead to a relapse. Big mistake.
Now, I went on Suboxone again in the summer and was doing very well for the most part, but stupid me decided to experiment with Oxy (I was confident that I won't "hit" me). Well, it did. Big time. Then I was back and forth with Suboxone and oxy. However, since April I added more issues to myself: ADDERALL...! I'm embarrassed to admit that going from "no problem" to "2 problems" isn't what I wanted. I'm a father of a beautiful daughter, have a great job, family, friends and no one knows about my problem.

Last week I took Suboxone in the am (1mg) and oxy at night! Ughhhh. And sdderall in between. I just can't believe I'm typing all this. I think the problem is low Suboxone induction. I've never took more than 2.50 mg a day. Ever. I have 0 wd even on 1mg but I have CRAZY cravings. Currently, I'm on 15mg Adderall and 1.50mg Suboxone. When I took oxy at night, I only too 1mg of sub (of course). It made me sick, disgusted with myself. I felt dizzy, tired, and bleh... That's when I took extra adderall. I want to put an end to this

Do u suggest I drop adderall completely? And increase Suboxone dose?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:54 pm 
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Hi Marcelo and welcome to the forum.

I'm kind of getting the sense from your post that you're treating yourself. Do you have a Suboxone doctor? If so I would discuss with him/her the fact that while 1.5mg keeps you out of WD, it isn't enough to cover your cravings. You might need a dose of 4mg or more, which is solidly at or above the ceiling level of Sub (where your blood levels stay fairly steady).

Right now you're using Suboxone, oxy and adderall (and you had gotten in trouble with Tramadol) and you're asking suggestions on how to control your using. If you're an addict, like we are, you can't control your using. Now is the time to consider treatment, even if it's outpatient. I remember being at the point you are, wanting to fix it myself and not have anyone find out. Addicts, by definition, can't stop on their own. The problem tends to get worse, and then when people DO find out, you're in crisis.

I hope you at least have a doctor you can discuss this with, and maybe a close family member or trusted friend. It's up to you where you take it from there. Trying to adjust the dose of one drug or stop another isn't going to solve the underlying problem.

I wish you the best,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:37 pm 
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Thank you for a reply Lilly! It feels great knowing I can find support j need here. It's even better that this site is dedicated to Suboxone and not drugs in general.
I was doing fine with 1.00mg of sub and even was able to cut down to 5mg of adderall. I think adderall is more of a "habit", typical habit of an addict. Not a single source mentions that that kind of a dose is a problem to jump from. But I think adderall is what causes the behavior and that's why I reach out to oxy. It gives anxiety which is followed by a depression and loss of hope and here comes dirty, devil oxy.
I want to do this final sub route. I got subs a while ago on the street. Not through s Doctor. I did tell w friend of mine to get support. However , he is not an addict so he doesn't really understand. It's hard for me to attend meetings due to work and family. I'll do my best to do meetings though... At least once a week. Meetings really helped. Big time.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:33 pm 
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First of all, welcome to the forum. We are all about recovery here, whether that means a person is on suboxone and keeping their addiction in remission, or planning on tapering off and figuring out how to stay in recovery without using suboxone as a tool. So we definitely have a specific goal of helping our members recover from active addiction.

I, like Lily, feel like you are not addressing the entire picture here. Lily brought up a great point when she said that you seem to be treating yourself. And although you admit you're an addict I can't tell if you are desiring to be done with addict behaviors. Since you are implying that you want to be off the "rollercoaster", to me that means that you want to be in recovery. Do I have that right? So that means staying off the oxy and the adderall, finding a suboxone doctor and being inducted properly on a sustainable dose of suboxone.
Do you feel like you're ready to stop dabbling and commit to a course of treatment? I think it would do a lot of good toward moving you in the right direction. It would definitely help if you had someone to be accountable to.

Amy

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:02 pm 
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Hello Amy! And thank you for your post..
I did take a break from adderall for 2-3 days while on Suboxone. I really didn't feel bad or tired... Or depressed (like people reported). However, on day 3 (!!!) I began to feel just horrible. Perhaps I dropped too soon...or from too high (for me) of a dose? Idk... In regards to getting sub from a dr--- when I seriously needed help, NOT A SINGLE DR CALLED ME BACK! I was so upset... Plus, i was able to get enough of sub from someone (at a premium price, of course) but now I'm running out. I hope to get my hands on a few more strips. I just wanted to join this site to ask for a few questions:
- for someone with 90mg oxy dose, what is the optimal induction dose? I know we r all different, but what was yours? I feel like I keep failing with Suboxone due to low dosage to start with. All these horror stories I've read ughh

- do u guys use Roberts taper method or staying on sub for a while (longer than 6-8 weeks)?
- someone with adderall experience ... Plz plz plz-- help me here :( I will go with 2.50 of sub tomorrow and will try to skip adderall if at all possible.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:18 am 
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Hey Marcelo,

Welcome to the forum! I agree that u definitely need to find u a sub Dr. U won't be able to find enough off the street to keep u going and honestly wouldn't u like to be done with the calling around and searching dealers or whoever? If a sub Dr wouldn't call u bk, keep calling and keep calling, be very aggressive until someone listens! This is ur life and u deserve this treatment. Please think about it, ur life will turn around in an instant, mine did and I was on oxycodone with a tolerance of around 150mg a day. I took other stuff too, pretty much any opiate, but towards the end of my active addiction my doc was oxycodone.

When I inducted, my doctor had me on 16mg, but honestly I think that I would have done just fine on 8-12 in the beginning. I had zero cravings and started rebuilding my life, that's been almost four years ago. I'll tell ya this, if I would have had any oxycodone around me during that time at the beginning, I would not have had a successful experience with suboxone. There's just not much gonna come out of using oxy with sub, u won't succeed unless u commit to stopping the oxy completely. If u have a Dr and a script, that's 100% achievable. Getting it from the street is just too unreliable and risky. Plus if someone is selling their suboxone, they're not taking their dose correctly and it's only a matter of time before they get kicked out and then that supply will end which will mean urs will too. See what I mean?

U deserve the best and if I were u I wouldn't stop until I had that, it's so worth it I promise. I'm gonna stop rambling now lol and I really wish u all the best. Ppl here are ready to offer u all the support u need. Good luck!!! :)

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:49 pm 
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Hi MarceloG and welcome! I don't have adderall experience but we do have the addiction to tramadol in common. I was taking up to 50 - 50mg tabs of tramadol a day at the height of my addiction. You say you were prescribed trams for depression? I have never heard of that before but do know they did help me with it. That's how this whole mess started for me! I was prescribed tramadol for osteoarthritis. Then depression associated with menopause came along. I took more and more trams to feel good and less depressed. Last August they changed the class of tramadol and I could not buy them online in the USA any longer. So, I was faced with a big problem. I found a wonderful suboxone Doctor and my induction was almost too easy. I waited 36 hours and started the suboxone and it has worked like a charm. No cravings, I still have a bottle of 90 tabs of tramadol in the house. I have never been tempted to touch it. I started at 24 mgs of sub in August of 2014. I am down to 6 mgs. I would love to be done with suboxone but I am taking my time weaning myself off. Or, I should say, as low as I can go. Anyway, that is my story. I hope you can find a sub doctor that you like and respect. Please continue to keep us informed of your progress. It is great having you here!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:39 pm 
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Thank you for posting Jenn and Michelle!
I really appreciate you sharing your stories with me.
I don't have cravings at 2mg if sub even. 2.50 was an ideal dose for me to induce. Problem is, I was dropping too soon, too fast. I would go from 2.50 to 1.50 in less then a week. Was too afraid of getting hooked on sub Without any wd, but with CRAZZZY cravings and minor depression. Now, I said screw it... I'll stay st 2.50 for as long as I need. Maybe 7 days of longer. Any amount of Suboxone is better then oxy. I know it. Trust me :)
But anything over 2.50mg gives me headache and nausea (and makes me tired sometimes).
I'll slowly quit adderall and then will begin tapering Suboxone.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:20 am 
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Hello Marc...,
I thought I would throw my 2 cents in.
What I am reading and I am gonna be honest with you.
The bottom line is you don't have a way to be held accountable for your using. You are able to use anything you want , whenever you want. And that is bad. You will just keep abusing the other meds you are taking.
You really need to find a Dr. and get in a program that you will be held accountable for your actions. You need to take drug screens and counseling to keep you in line.
And yes, I believe you are not taking enough Subs at the moment, A normal induction is 16mgs a day. The reason for that is to fill up all your receptors so no other opiate you take in the future will be able to get to and cling to the receptors. That is how Subs work. They fit the receptor so perfect(fits like a glove) as the saying goes. lol
But you will not need to stay on that high of a dose. Most of us are taking between 4 and 6mgs a day or less.
And for the Adderall, it is another "habit" forming drug. So you need to be careful, but it sounds like you are already "liking" it too. I hope you understand what I am trying to tell you.
If you get in a program, you will not be able to take the Adderall or the Oxy anymore. Right now, you are able to do what you want.
We are all addicts on here and do know what we are talking about. So please heed our warnings about going to a Dr. It is very important in our recovery process. Yes, there are days when I hate being on Subs and there are days when I am glad I have it. But at the end of the day, It is a plus to be on it.
Sorry, I am beginning to ramble
Good luck with what you decide to do, and keep searching for a Dr.!
Happy


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:09 pm 
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Good day Happy! And I'm also happy that you've posted here :) I really appreciate your input. Common here I did not know any members and did not know how to use the site and I am used to getting the replies on the other side that I used to use him and I'm very impressed to see that people do care and people do try to help and give their honest opinion about the process of being on Suboxone.
It truly makes my day to see your post and other people's posts here. I can't join any programs because of work I don't want this information to be accessible to my employer or anyone else. That is why I want to stick to the plan and perhaps meetings. I took 2mg of sub this morning and 5mg of adderall. I want to get stable at sub and adderall before dropping. I know i could've skipped adderall completely today (given the dose I'm on) and just quit it. When I did it before I had HORRIBLE nausea and headache. I don't crave it, believe it or not, because I never took enough to feel any euphoria of any kind. Anything more then 3mg of sub makes me super tired and sleepy (headache sometimes too), I've read here on one of the threads that spittin that risidue after strip dissolves helps with headache. That's what I do now, tbh with you. It does help!
Back to counseling--I think I can go to a psychiatrist or psychologist. I'll have to resume my meetings as well.
Yesterday was my 2.50mg day. I plan to stay on it for a little while before dropping to 2mg. Solely for cravings purposes. I'm just sooooo darn sleepy. It's weird. I haven't taken 2.00 or more mg of sub in almost 3 months. And that's why I craved oxy AND perhaps adderall. This time---the word craving is not in my vocabulary :) kind of excited. I have (now) enough sub to stay on it for a while. Here's my breakdown (plan) and plz let me know what u guys think:

2.50 8 days
2.00 7 days
1.75 6 days
1.50 5 days
1.25 5 days
1.00 5 days
0.75 4 days
0.50 5 days
0.375 5 days
0.25 8 days (with skipping)

What do u think?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:04 pm 
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I'm not saying this to be unkind in any way, but nobody here is going to cosign what you're doing. You're using two controlled substances without a prescription and acting as your own doctor.
I'm not judging you, because I did the same thing when I was in active addiction. Now that I'm in recovery I'm open to suggestions that other people in recovery give me. You've gotten a lot of really good suggestions here, so when you're ready you know what to do.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:17 pm 
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Hi Lilly,

Suggestion you mean going to a doctor?
I didn't become addicted to pain meds on my own. I've had a surgery, then another minor procedure after procedure that resulted in painkiller prescriptions filled. Then addiction developed and I began buying oxy from the street. Like many ppl here i thiught??
Am I wrong? I'm sorry if I am. I simply CANT take large amounts of Suboxone. I can't. My highest dosage of oxy EVER IN MY LIFE was 150mg/day. For the most part it was 90mg. Or 3 oxy 30s a day. Why would I need to get on 16mg of sub?? I'm sorry but that is NOT THE RIGHT RECOMMENDATION. 3-4mgs--- I get it. But not 16.
And with adderall -- I'm down to 5-10mg a day. I could and I will jump it once I'm fully stable on sub.
And by all means--I came here for support and guidance hoping someone else had experience with sub and adderall. With everything I've experienced, read and researched I (and most of u guys) know more about Suboxone than some of the Dr's that prescribe 16mg per day.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:09 pm 
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Hi MarceloG, I am having a hard time keeping up with you! You seem to be all over the place with a plan. You just posted a plan to wean off subs but in your response to me you said you were going to quit adderall first and then think about subs. I agree with Happy, if you were seeing a doctor you could develop a plan and stick to it. You do say you would like to see a psychiatrist or Psychologist and I think that is a great idea! No judgement here, just trying to understand and support you in having a recovery plan. I also have a question... you said you were prescribed tramadol for depression? This is the first I have heard of this. Did it help? I can see how it may have. In the begining, it worked so well at making me feel a bit brighter and also more energetic. That is why I loved it so much! I do wish you all the luck in your plan to be off any drug that you do not want to be on! Please let us know of your progress.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:14 pm 
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Hey Michelle! No, adderall was originally prescribed post my hernia surgery because "perks" were more addictive (not true I know), so I had left overs that I took after I jumped Suboxone in Jan 2015. I took very minor dosages of tramsdols (25-50mg) every other day (as needed, for depression mainly ). things were great until stupid me decided to mess with oxys again. Back in March of 2015 I started with 15mg a day and slowly went up to 90mg a day. Quit in July using Suboxone, quickly dropped to 0.50mg a day and decided to experiment and find out if I really won't feel any oxy. I did. And I regretted that. What a moron I was. I was always afraid of Suboxone, so dropping too soon and too fast always resulted in a relapse. Now I can't. I can't do Roberts taper and drop every 4 days until I fully quit adderall.

I'm planning to just completely stopping adderall. At this dose. I think 2.50mg of sub is too much for me. I don't feel good on it. Too thirsty, too tired, too sleepy. I should've just taken 1mg in the am and 1.50 in the pm. No I just can't get stuff done. Grrrrr.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:30 pm 
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Wow, thats really interesting because I started on 24 mgs of suboxone. I am now at 6mgs. I can say that I am doing very well at 6. I just dropped from 8 about a month ago. Each time I dropped, I just felt ready. Today, I actually felt that I would be fine with just 4. I did however just take another 2 but could have lived without it. My plan is to try one day 6, one day 4. I do dose three times per day but the suboxone also is working for osteoarthritis pain and depression related to menopause. I don't know if I will ever be off of suboxone. I would like to be but if I need it as a maintenance med than so be it! Have a wonderful evening!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:38 pm 
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If your dose of Suboxone can sufficiently manage your cravings for Oxy, you may find you'll have less desire to use Adderall as well. One of the interesting things about Sub is that it seems to curb peoples other addictions as well. ie I've had issues with IV cocaine in the past, and find that while I'm on a dose of Sub that manages my heroin cravings, I have less desire to use coke as well. Even my compulsive internet dating seems to be managed by Suboxone. Funny I know.

I agree with others' opinions that your dose isn't enough to be useful for you. The reality is that, for most of us, if we're still using other opiates while on Suboxone there really isn't much point to be on Suboxone (though it may be reducing your chance of overdose). I'd suggest you find a dose that minimises your cravings, take that dose at the same time each day until you get a few months clean, then consider reducing gradually. Obviously the best way to do this would be to do the rightey and get a legit script.

Depending on your metabolism, a dose of 4-8mg might do the job. But be aware that it's better to be on 16mg and clean off other drugs than on 4mg and using occasionally. The idea is to start to learn to live life without resorting to drugs as a destructive coping mechanism.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:46 pm 
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Only time I had/have cravings is when I dropped too soon to 1.50mg or below. If I take 1.50 in the morning, I'm good until late afternoon AT LEAST. Even evening sometimes. I decided to take 2mg all at once hoping to just begin dosing once per day. But it ruined my day by giving me funny taste in my mouth all day that I couldn't get rid of, laziness, and everything else I wrote before :)

But you are correct: larger doses of sub DOES curb my craving for adderall. I just shouldn't take it all at once. Will try 1.50mg in am. Maybe I'll skip adderall altogether. We'll see. The funny thing is that I don't crave adderall for "high" or "euphoria", but simply for focus and some energy to get things done at work and home (sometimes).


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:58 pm 
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I want to touch on something else that you mentioned. Your employer doesn't need to know anything about you taking suboxone. There are doctors and nurses and dentists and lawyers on sub. If you are able to use health insurance they will not have access to that information unless someone does something seriously illegal in violation of HIPAA. If your personal health information is shared with your employer somehow, you can and should sue the insurance company!

If you don't go through your health insurance for the sub doctor then there is even less of an accidental chance that your employer would find out. This is not an acceptable reason for choosing to taper off sub and wreck your recovery. The statistics are daunting. People who only use sub for a quick taper or for less than a year will statistically relapse. You need help. You can't be doing this on your own and think that you will succeed. We could all sit here and wish you recovered, but that has about the same chance of working as you trying to do this on your own. Find a sub doctor!!

Amy

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:54 pm 
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Everyone of us here has given you great information and suggestions.
Please listen to everyone! I have been on opiates for over 16 years now and you just can't decide to just taper and quit while using other opiates and Adderall too. You will relapse, I am telling you. You have got to get rid of the Oxy's and the Adderall buddy! You're defeating the purpose of using the subs.I know your intensions are good, but you need medical help. I wished there was an easy way out, but there isn't. You said the surgeries and the stuff got you hooked. well, that is the way most of us here got hooked was by accident. Mine was a motocross accident and it escalated from there.
I do wish you the best of luck and I hope you prove me wrong. Getting a Dr. will not affect your work in any way as far as them finding out. I know that scares the crap out of you, but as Amy said, there are Dr's and lawyers and politicians all on Suboxone now. It is beginning to get noticed finally. President Obama just gave a speech in Charleston WV last week about drug addiction and increasing the Suboxone clinics across the country. Doubling them within 2 years. so finally progress is being made somewhat.
Anyways, I am babbling lol
Goodluck with whatever you decide. All we can do is give you advise and try to steer you in the right direction. The rest is up to you.
Happy


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:17 am 
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MarceloG wrote:
But it ruined my day by giving me funny taste in my mouth all day that I couldn't get rid of, laziness, and everything else I wrote before :).


That'd be a very idiosyncratic reaction. Most people on this board are on doses over 2mg and don't experience this.

Is it possible the Sub's you're being sold are expired?


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